Portland police halt minor traffic stops, citing disparity

[TomC]

Is it reasonable or equitable to discriminate against poor people?

In what sense would it be "discrimination"? It is a matter of fact that poor people will find it harder to comply with some traffic laws, but that doesn't make enforcing the law against those who don't comply "discrimination". Poor people who do comply will not be punished.

You don't understand modern USA culture. We're now a country dominated by victimhood and entitlement. From poorly educated white folks who feel entitled to the kind of jobs their grandparents got to poorly raised black folks who feel entitled to disrespect the cops, everybody is a victim. If things don't work out the way they want things to work out, it's somebody else's fault.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

Is it reasonable or equitable to discriminate against poor people?

In what sense would it be "discrimination"? It is a matter of fact that poor people will find it harder to comply with some traffic laws, but that doesn't make enforcing the law against those who don't comply "discrimination". Poor people who do comply will not be punished.

MWAHAHA!
If the goddam poor people can't afford to travel to work in legal fashion, they need to stay home and get a job online.
Get the fuck off our streets, and get to fucking work! It's not discrimination, it's economic physics.

Most poor people do travel legally when they travel. I know I did.

 

[Elixir]

MWAHAHA!
If the goddam poor people can't afford to travel to work in legal fashion, they need to stay home and get a job online.
Get the fuck off our streets, and get to fucking work! It's not discrimination, it's economic physics.

Most poor people do travel legally when they travel. I know I did.

Me too! Right on, bro! That's why they need to just fucking STAY HOME if they can't do it!

 

[TomC]

MWAHAHA!
If the goddam poor people can't afford to travel to work in legal fashion, they need to stay home and get a job online.
Get the fuck off our streets, and get to fucking work! It's not discrimination, it's economic physics.

Most poor people do travel legally when they travel. I know I did.

I don't know how accurate the maps for the Portland public transportation system are, now that things have changed so much. Maybe public transit is another victim of anarchy.

But, quite recently, Portland had a solid system of public transportation. Driving your own car was perhaps convenient, but it was the expensive way to get around.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

MWAHAHA!
If the goddam poor people can't afford to travel to work in legal fashion, they need to stay home and get a job online.
Get the fuck off our streets, and get to fucking work! It's not discrimination, it's economic physics.

Most poor people do travel legally when they travel. I know I did.

Me too! Right on, bro! That's why they need to just fucking STAY HOME if they can't do it!

I'm not your bro. And yes--if you can't leave the house without violating the law, you should probably stay home.

 

[TomC]

MWAHAHA!
If the goddam poor people can't afford to travel to work in legal fashion, they need to stay home and get a job online.
Get the fuck off our streets, and get to fucking work! It's not discrimination, it's economic physics.

Most poor people do travel legally when they travel. I know I did.

Me too! Right on, bro! That's why they need to just fucking STAY HOME if they can't do it!

If you live in a city with public transportation, which includes Portland, those aren't the two choices.

Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Incorrect. You are now already admitting your dichotomy was false by adding another 'option' - that of speaking to the officers who have left.

No, my original quote said "survey" them, which could include talking to them.

I do not need to have spoken to any of them to have access to comments they have made in media or message boards, nor do I need to have surveyed them to make inferences.

True, but you still have not produced any evidence of such quotes. Which leads me to think that any quote you might produce came after you made up your claims.

As for your "inferences" (and I use the term loosely), your unwavering confidence in their validity is fascinating given their poor quality.

I wonder, do you make inferences about why slaves ran away? Did you survey them?

Unlike you, I would not portray them as fact.

The fact that you are articulating yet another option that destroys your false dichotomy should embarrass you. .....

Sure Jan, whatever helps you get through the day. .

 

[Metaphor]

No, my original quote said "survey" them, which could include talking to them.

No matter. It is still false that the only way to discover somebody's reasons is to "survey" them. Indeed, even when you survey them you get only 'stated' reasons.

True, but you still have not produced any evidence of such quotes. Which leads me to think that any quote you might produce came after you made up your claims.

I don't need to produce a quote of any description to call out the falseness of your false dichotomy.

As for your "inferences" (and I use the term loosely), your unwavering confidence in their validity is fascinating given their poor quality.

Actually, I did not claim they withstood all scrutiny. Indeed, inferences about motives are probably sometimes wrong. That does not mean that such inferences are pulled from one's "ass".

Unlike you, I would not portray them as fact.

You portrayed your false dichotomy as not a false dichotomy, so forgive me if I don't believe your claim of unblemished commitment to the unwritten rules of debate.

 

[laughing dog]

No matter. It is still false that the only way to discover somebody's reasons is to "survey" them. Indeed, even when you survey them you get only 'stated' reasons.



I don't need to produce a quote of any description to call out the falseness of your false dichotomy.

As for your "inferences" (and I use the term loosely), your unwavering confidence in their validity is fascinating given their poor quality.

Actually, I did not claim they withstood all scrutiny. Indeed, inferences about motives are probably sometimes wrong. That does not mean that such inferences are pulled from one's "ass".

Unlike you, I would not portray them as fact.

You portrayed your false dichotomy as not a false dichotomy, so forgive me if I don't believe your claim of unblemished commitment to the unwritten rules of debate.

Whatever you need to help you stagger through the day.

 

[Metaphor]

No matter. It is still false that the only way to discover somebody's reasons is to "survey" them. Indeed, even when you survey them you get only 'stated' reasons.



I don't need to produce a quote of any description to call out the falseness of your false dichotomy.



Actually, I did not claim they withstood all scrutiny. Indeed, inferences about motives are probably sometimes wrong. That does not mean that such inferences are pulled from one's "ass".



You portrayed your false dichotomy as not a false dichotomy, so forgive me if I don't believe your claim of unblemished commitment to the unwritten rules of debate.

Whatever you need to help you stagger through the day.

You can have no claim to understand what and if I need something to "stagger" through the day, since you did not survey me. You pulled that claim from your ass.

 

[laughing dog]

You can have no claim to understand what and if I need something to "stagger" through the day, since you did not survey me. You pulled that claim from your ass.

I don't think so, but even if I did, it is a more accurate observation of reality than anything you have made in this thread.

 

[funinspace]

MWAHAHA!
If the goddam poor people can't afford to travel to work in legal fashion, they need to stay home and get a job online.
Get the fuck off our streets, and get to fucking work! It's not discrimination, it's economic physics.

Most poor people do travel legally when they travel. I know I did.

I don't know how accurate the maps for the Portland public transportation system are, now that things have changed so much. Maybe public transit is another victim of anarchy.

But, quite recently, Portland had a solid system of public transportation. Driving your own car was perhaps convenient, but it was the expensive way to get around.
Tom

It still works, except when its a friggin 115 out...WTF! And the state of anarchy is way over stated...I can live with the policing tweaks, maybe they could pull over tailgaters instead. Such concerns from afar are entertaining...

 

[TomC]

I don't know how accurate the maps for the Portland public transportation system are, now that things have changed so much. Maybe public transit is another victim of anarchy.

But, quite recently, Portland had a solid system of public transportation. Driving your own car was perhaps convenient, but it was the expensive way to get around.
Tom

It still works, except when its a friggin 115 out...WTF! And the state of anarchy is way over stated...I can live with the policing tweaks, maybe they could pull over tailgaters instead. Such concerns from afar are entertaining...

Did the city change its policies because of the heat wave? Or did it happen before that?

I'm confident that it happened before the current weather, and this post is strawman argument.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races, one would think "6% of Portlanders are Black, he said they account for 18% of traffic stops in the city. " would count as evidence.
LOL - just like that "stop discriminating" and the discrimination stops. Did it even cross your mind that the police officers may not be aware of their bias?

Did it even cross your mind that this might not be discrimination?

Expired plates and broken lights are things which will show a strong economic pattern. As almost always happens supposed "racism" is really socioeconomic.

Thank heavens we all know that being in a lower socioeconomic level has absolutely nothing to do with racism, systemic, historical or otherwise.

Given that police can and do pull up vehicle registration prior to pulling over a vehicle, why, exactly, do police pull over vehicles for expired tags or broken tail lights when they could much more safely send a ticket or warning or summons to the address associated with the vehicle registration? I'm serious. Depending on where they pull over a vehicle, it can create a much more dangerous situation than an expired tag, for instance. It's often police officers who are killed by another vehicle failing to change lanes.

It honestly does not make sense to me to pull over a vehicle for an expired tag, given the danger to the police officer.

They probably know it's expired. A notice about that won't make any difference.

Besides, in general cops like going after such cases because people who are committing one wrong are far more likely to also be doing other wrongs.

If nothing else, someone who didn't pay their registration very well might not have paid their insurance. I pay more for insurance against others not being able to pay the damages they caused than I pay for liability.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Unless you have evidence that blacks are more likely to engage in behavior that generates a traffic stop than people of other races, one would think "6% of Portlanders are Black, he said they account for 18% of traffic stops in the city. " would count as evidence.
LOL - just like that "stop discriminating" and the discrimination stops. Did it even cross your mind that the police officers may not be aware of their bias?

Did it even cross your mind that this might not be discrimination?

Expired plates and broken lights are things which will show a strong economic pattern. As almost always happens supposed "racism" is really socioeconomic.

And you aren't seeing the systemic part there?

These days "systemic" racism is let's-pretend-the-problem-is-racism. It's about trying to avoid addressing the hard issues by providing an easy evil to target.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The solution is obvious. Poor people should stop writing laws that they have such a hard time complying with.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The solution is obvious. Poor people should stop writing laws that they have such a hard time complying with.

Finally! Some common sense.

 

[Toni]

The solution is obvious. Poor people should stop writing laws that they have such a hard time complying with.

Finally! Some common sense.

Thank heavens we all know that being in a lower socioeconomic level has absolutely nothing to do with racism, systemic, historical or otherwise.

Given that police can and do pull up vehicle registration prior to pulling over a vehicle, why, exactly, do police pull over vehicles for expired tags or broken tail lights when they could much more safely send a ticket or warning or summons to the address associated with the vehicle registration? I'm serious. Depending on where they pull over a vehicle, it can create a much more dangerous situation than an expired tag, for instance. It's often police officers who are killed by another vehicle failing to change lanes.

It honestly does not make sense to me to pull over a vehicle for an expired tag, given the danger to the police officer.

They probably know it's expired. A notice about that won't make any difference.

Besides, in general cops like going after such cases because people who are committing one wrong are far more likely to also be doing other wrongs.

If nothing else, someone who didn't pay their registration very well might not have paid their insurance. I pay more for insurance against others not being able to pay the damages they caused than I pay for liability.

I wasn’t talking about a ‘notice.’ I was talking about a ticket or a warning, exactly as if delivered roadside but much much safer for everyone. When renewing registration, one must demonstrate proof of insurance.

You’re correct that police officers often use an expired tag as a pretext for a fishing expedition. Again, persons of color are further targeted.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I don't know?! It rains in Portland. We get snow sometimes. Sometimes the weather is bad and visibility is limited, made worse at night. If my tail light goes it, it's harder to see me. And I probably won't notice. I'd rather have the police tell me.

 

[funinspace]

I don't know how accurate the maps for the Portland public transportation system are, now that things have changed so much. Maybe public transit is another victim of anarchy.

But, quite recently, Portland had a solid system of public transportation. Driving your own car was perhaps convenient, but it was the expensive way to get around.
Tom

It still works, except when its a friggin 115 out...WTF! And the state of anarchy is way over stated...I can live with the policing tweaks, maybe they could pull over tailgaters instead. Such concerns from afar are entertaining...

Did the city change its policies because of the heat wave? Or did it happen before that?

I'm confident that it happened before the current weather, and this post is strawman argument.
Tom

The "It" that I was referring to was the public transportation still working, and I tossed in a bitch about the insane heat wave we had here a few days ago.