• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

President-elect Joe Biden's Cabinet and Staff Nominees

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,137
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
I support due process which is for the judicial system. Institutions of higher learning are not part of the judicial system.
So they should be able to expel students capriciously? Due process is important in these quasi-judicial settings as well.
There is a difference between fairness and due process. Due process is for the judicial system or should be. Colleges and universities are not courts of laws and should be under the same constraints as a court. We recognize that principle in employment law. Employees do not necessarily have due process rights in employment - they can be fired for theft without proof. That is just as damaging (probably more so) than being expelled from college or a school.

Are you talking to yourself?
With responses like yours, it certainly seems like it sometimes.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
There is a difference between fairness and due process.
The university tribunals that work based on that Obama-era policy are neither.

Due process is for the judicial system or should be.

We are talking about quasi-judicial hearings with significant consequences for those accused. Why should not due process apply?
You seem to advocating that it's ok for colleges to be capricious in their handling of these accusation.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,137
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
There is a difference between fairness and due process.
The university tribunals that work based on that Obama-era policy are neither.
Your opinon is just that.

Derec said:
We are talking about quasi-judicial hearings with significant consequences for those accused. Why should not due process apply?
Because it is not a criminal orcivil justice matter. Unlike a criminal trial, the university ir college is also concerned with the victim.
Derec said:
You seem to advocating that it's ok for colleges to be capricious in their handling of these accusation.
I can understand why a rape apologist would think that being against due process means capriciiusness in sexyal assault situations, but what is driving your use if the fallacy of the excluded middle?
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Jen Psaki: White House Briefings Won't Be A Platform For Right-Wing Propaganda : Biden Transition Updates : NPR
President-elect Joe Biden's choice for White House press secretary says she will restore a tradition. Unlike her immediate predecessors in the Trump administration, Jen Psaki plans to take questions from reporters each day.

Psaki has played similar roles before. She was the spokesperson for the State Department when John Kerry was secretary of state, then President Barack Obama's communications director, and she now speaks for Biden.

"I think more than any point in history ... part of the job of the White House press secretary is to rebuild trust with the American people," she says in an interview with NPR's Morning Edition.

President Trump's first press secretary falsely claimed the biggest inauguration crowd in history. His last made false claims about Trump's election defeat. Psaki promises to be "as fact-based as I can be." She says she won't limit right-wing media outlets' access to White House briefings but adds that "we're not going to allow the briefing room to be a platform for propaganda."
Looks like something to look forward to.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
30,543
Location
Frozen in Michigan
Gender
Old Fart
Basic Beliefs
Democratic Socialist Atheist
MSNBC is reporting that Biden will pick Merrick Garland for Attorney General.
 

blastula

Contributor
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
8,031
Gender
Late for dinner
Basic Beliefs
Gnostic atheist
Nice for Garland but I hope he's not too timid about going after the Trump criminals.

Now that they have the Senate, Biden can go bigger on these nominations. Is he wants to.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Not sure what's the best place for this news: Pentagon halts Trump appointments to advisory boards - POLITICO - "The move effectively prevents a number of Trump allies, including Corey Lewandowski and David Bossie, from actually serving on panels."
The Pentagon has suspended the processing of a number of former President Donald Trump’s last-minute appointees to defense advisory boards as the new administration looks to weed out loyalists to the former president.

The move effectively prevents a number of Trump allies, including his 2016 campaign manager Corey Lewandowski and deputy campaign manager David Bossie, from actually serving on panels tasked with providing advice to the defense secretary, at least for the time being.

Who's In President Biden's Cabinet? : NPR - only 4 of the positions listed as needing Senate confirmation have now been confirmed.

Secretary of State - Antony Blinken
Secretary of Defense - Retired Gen. Lloyd Austin
Director of National Intelligence - Avril Haines
Secretary of the Treasury - Janet Yellen
 

Treedbear

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
2,567
Location
out on a limb
Basic Beliefs
secular, humanist, agnostic on theism/atheism
... - only 4 of the positions listed as needing Senate confirmation have now been confirmed.

Secretary of State - Antony Blinken
Secretary of Defense - Retired Gen. Lloyd Austin
Director of National Intelligence - Avril Haines
Secretary of the Treasury - Janet Yellen

Saw a good bit of Haines' and Blinken's confirmation hearings and they both are incredibly knowledgeable about their office. Even-tempered, direct and to-the-point, and completely objective even to the point of acknowledging where the Trump administration was at times on the right track. Avril Haines' intensity and passion somehow reminded me of Jody Foster in "Contact". A stark contrast with what we've had for the last four years.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
More contrast with the Trump years.

Jen Psaki's first White House press briefing heralds return to normality | Biden administration | The Guardian
One journalist compared Sean Spicer's briefings to being back in school. Author David Smith compared them to Zimbabwe during Robert Mugabe's rule.
Pledging ‘truth and transparency’, Biden’s press secretary was startlingly civil – as far from Sean Spicer as it is possible to be

...
Just compare their remarks about the press. “Some members of the media were engaged in deliberately false reporting,” Spicer scowled in reference to Trump’s inauguration, adding darkly: “We’re going to hold the press accountable.”

Psaki, by contrast, began the new era with a smile: “It’s an honour to be here with all of you. When the president asked me to serve in this role, we talked about the importance of bringing truth and transparency back to the briefing room.”

Later she added: “I have deep respect for the role of a free and independent press in our democracy.”

The 42-year-old’s maiden briefing on Wednesday was radical in its normality and startling in its civility. Polished and professional, she arrived wearing a mask, breaking from Trump tradition, and told a dozen physically distanced reporters: “There will be moments when we disagree, and there will certainly be days where we disagree for extensive parts of the briefing even, perhaps. But we have a common goal, which is sharing accurate information with the American people.”
The Recount on Twitter: "Day 1 Press Briefings: Trump admin vs. Biden admin (video link)" / Twitter
Shows a link of SS vs. JP.

The Trump Admin went through SS, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Stephanie Grisham, and Kayleigh McEnany.

JP is yet another Obama Admin veteran.
 

TV and credit cards

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
4,426
Location
muh-dahy-nuh
Basic Beliefs
Humanist
Senate confirms Mayor Pete as Secretary of Bike Paths and Charging Stations. Often derided by the far left for no other reason than looking like a Republican, Pete Buttigieg will be the first openly gay person confirmed to a cabinet post.
It will be interesting to see how he works on funding for infrastructure. If he wants to stay in the game, he had better earn his feathers.
 

Politesse

Lux Aeterna
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
8,427
Location
Chochenyo Territory, US
Gender
nb; all pronouns fine
Basic Beliefs
Jedi Wayseeker
Often derided by the far left for no other reason than looking like a Republican
Err, why wouldn't someone on the "far left" oppose Republicanism? Of course they do. I don't think that he does endorse Republican ideas, though, nor that he is commonly "derided" by the far left. Criticized yes, and I guess for the featherlite snowflakes who consitutute the modern Right, being criticized is being "canaceled", but the criticisms I've heard have to do with his record as mayor of South Bend and the hands he shook while campaigning, not his political views. Transportation is a big focus for him - during the presidential campaign, he promised an even trillion dollars in new infrastructure projects.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Glenn Kirschner on Twitter: "Video dropping soon: Lindsey Graham is blocking Merrick Garland’s confirmation hearing for his position as AG. Where have we seen this movie before? And what are We The People gonna do about it? #TeamJustice has had about enough of Republican injustice. #JusticeMatters." / Twitter

Graham shoots down request for Merrick Garland confirmation hearing Feb. 8 | TheHill
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) rejected a Democratic request on Monday to schedule a confirmation hearing next week for Merrick Garland, President Biden's pick to be attorney general.

Though Democrats have the Senate majority, Graham is still the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman because the chamber hasn't yet passed an organizing resolution for the 117th Congress.

That means the Senate panels are still operating under last year's setup — in which Republicans had the majority.
So Sen. Dick Durbin isn't head of the Judiciary Committee yet. According to Majority Leader Schumer Announces Senate Democratic Committee Memberships For The 117th Congress | Senate Democratic Leadership he has that assignment.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Merrick Garland's 'flawless' work in Oklahoma City crucial in white supremacy fight
The message was a stark one. “America is in serious decline,” the person wrote. “Is a civil war imminent? Do we have to shed blood to reform the current system? I hope it doesn’t come to that! But it might.”

But the words are from 1992 America, written in a letter to a newspaper by Timothy McVeigh, who three years later would carry out the Oklahoma City bombing, the deadliest incident of domestic terrorism in US history. An anti-government, white supremacist army veteran, McVeigh set off a truck bomb underneath a day care facility in a federal building, killing 168 people including 19 children.
Merrick Garland was a Federal prosecutor in that case.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Schumer, McConnell reach deal on Senate organizing resolution | TheHill
The power-sharing deal was up in the air for days after McConnell demanded that the resolution include protections against nixing the 60-vote legislative filibuster, as progressive activists and a growing number of senators support going "nuclear."

McConnell's effort frustrated Democrats, who viewed it as an attempt to box them in and believed that the GOP leader wouldn't have agreed to the same restriction if he was still in the majority.

McConnell ultimately dropped his insistence on a formal agreement after two Democratic senators — Sens. Joe Manchin (W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) — both reiterated that they oppose nixing the legislative filibuster.

"The senior senator from Arizona made the same commitment. She opposes ending the legislative filibuster. ... Our colleague informed me directly last night that under no circumstances would she reverse course," McConnell said last week.
Will we get some progress on Merrick Garland and other Biden appointees?
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
30,543
Location
Frozen in Michigan
Gender
Old Fart
Basic Beliefs
Democratic Socialist Atheist
Pentagon purges advisory boards of Trump loyalists
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin ordered a full review.


Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin on Tuesday ordered the resignation of the hundreds of people that serve on the Pentagon’s 42 civilian advisory boards, effectively purging a number of Trump loyalists named to the boards in the Trump administration's final days.

The resignations are part of a broader review Austin has ordered to look at the viability of the boards and to eliminate potential overlaps.

But the Pentagon's top spokesman acknowledged that the resignations and the review had been prompted by the last-minute appointments of Trump loyalists to the boards, including Trump's former campaign manager.

"The Secretary was deeply concerned with the pace and the extent of recent changes to memberships of department advisory committees," said John Kirby, the Pentagon's press secretary. "This review will allow him now to quickly get his arms around the purpose of these boards and to make sure the advisory committees are in fact providing the best possible advice to department leadership."
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Senate passes organizing resolution after Schumer-McConnell deal | TheHill
It was done by unanimous consent. Sen. Chuck Schumer:
"I am happy to report ... that the leadership of both parties have finalized the organizing resolution for the Senate," Schumer said from the Senate floor on Wednesday morning, adding that it would let the Senate committees "get to work with Democrats holding the gavels."
Sen. Mitch McConnell:
"I am pleased to announce we have finalized the formal power-sharing agreement for the 117th Congress. This power-sharing agreement is almost identical to the 2001 agreement and will allow the Senate to be fairly run as an evenly-split body," he said.
The two Senate leaders agreed on trying to enable Senators to offer more amendments.
 

Swammerdami

Squadron Leader
Staff member
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
2,667
Location
Land of Smiles
Basic Beliefs
pseudo-deism

I'd read a week ago that the Moscow Turtle was delaying the organizing resolution ... but it wasn't passed until now? What the F**k?? Was it the Turtle's threat of filibuster that caused the delay? How can Turtle's Senate approve a Supreme Court Justice with 50 votes, but the D's need 60 votes just to take their chairs?

I am beyond disgusted. Is the Turtle Senator to remain in control of the Senate as long as he has 41 votes?

The D vs R schism is no longer about political issues. It is Truth vs Lies, Good vs Evil, Charity vs Hatred. Isn't there even a single GOP Senator willing to stand up against raw greed, hatred and treason? Once upon a time I had respect for Mitt Romney, but until he switches parties and votes to end the filibuster, I will treat him as just another execrable bag of slime.
 

Swammerdami

Squadron Leader
Staff member
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
2,667
Location
Land of Smiles
Basic Beliefs
pseudo-deism
I see that Merrick Garland has still not been confirmed. The Republioturds rushed their appointments through, but now Lindsay Graham needs to reconsider Benghazi, or some such crap, before he can vote on Garland.

What's the hold-up? The Senate should be able to do most things with 50 votes. Is the problem DINOs like Joe Manchin still pretending that the Republioturds are worthy of respect and refusing to act as the 'Turds did when they had the Senate less-than-60 majority?
 

Politesse

Lux Aeterna
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
8,427
Location
Chochenyo Territory, US
Gender
nb; all pronouns fine
Basic Beliefs
Jedi Wayseeker
The Senate has been extremely busy. Just because they aren't doing everything you want right now doesn't mean they aren't doing anything; four days ago, they pulled an all-nighter "vote-a-rama" resulting in the passage of forty individual bills and discussion of five more. The much belated COVID relief response has been dominating most of their docket, and I agree that this is where our emphasis should be right now.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
19,357
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist

That alone should disqualify her. It is a disgrace that Biden nominated somebody like that. She needs to go down in the Senate. Manchin may be our last hope.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,137
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
Cornyn is a puppet of the oil and gas industry. He is one of the earliest climate change deniers.

Despite what many people think, the Department of the Interior is not supposed to be servant of any natural resource extracting industry.
 

Elixir

Made in America
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
20,458
Location
Mountains
Basic Beliefs
English is complicated
Cornyn is a puppet of the oil and gas industry. He is one of the earliest climate change deniers.

Shouldn't he be back in Texas helping out his good 'ol boys... maybe providing some drivers' ed?

merlin_183575805_428d7388-8f88-4758-96f6-71d1fe132339-videoSixteenByNine3000.jpg
 

Shadowy Man

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Messages
3,287
Location
West Coast
Basic Beliefs
Rational Pragmatism

That alone should disqualify her. It is a disgrace that Biden nominated somebody like that. She needs to go down in the Senate. Manchin may be our last hope.

Too late. The bar for public service has now been set incredibly low.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
Cornyn is a puppet of the oil and gas industry. He is one of the earliest climate change deniers.

That may be true, but it does not mean Deb Haaland's extremism in the opposite direction is any better.

Despite what many people think, the Department of the Interior is not supposed to be servant of any natural resource extracting industry.
I do not think anybody thinks that.
And just because DOI is "not supposed to be servant of any natural resource extracting industry", does not mean it is supposed to be ideologically opposed to them either.

This polarization of US politics is a real problem, and it includes energy policy.
On one hand you have climate change deniers, on the other hand you have those who want to ban oil and gas yesterday. Neither are good positions and switching between the two extremes when party controlling the presidency changes hands is giving the whole country whiplash. It didn't use to be quite this bad on energy policy. When Obama took power in 2008 it was still possible for him to advocate a sensible "all of the above" approach to energy policy. But even by the time his presidency ended, the Democratic Party moved so far to the left that this was no longer a feasible position for Obama to maintain, unfortunately.

Contrary to what many on here think, I do believe climate is a serious and important issue. But it is also a very complex one, and not amenable to simplistic, ideological solutions.
Electric cars have a lot of potential, but they are still only about 2% of new car and light truck sales, and vehicles these days easily last 15-20 years based on miles driven. That means that we will need oil for the foreseeable future and that means we will also need oil pipelines like DAPL and KXL.
Same with natural gas. Many US households use natural gas for heat, but the largest users are actually electricity generation and industrial use, often as synthesis reagent.
It will take decades to eliminate the need for natural gas, and in the meantime, we need fracking wells and gas pipelines.

Unfortunately, the alleged environmentalist activists in the Democratic Party and on the Left in general have a major hate boner for oil and gas, and especially for pipelines for some reason. To the extent that they oppose, and frequently protest (often violently) against any oil or gas pipeline.

If they really wanted to make the biggest impact on climate and the environment in general, supposed environmental activists would be focusing on coal, not oil and gas.
Coal is far more carbon intensive than natural gas and it is also much dirtier, emitting toxic substances like sulfur, mercury and uranium. Yes, a coal-fired power plant releases much more radioactivity than a nuclear power plant.
Also, coal is mostly used for power generation, and its use has been going down in favor of natural gas for years now, thanks to plentiful fracked gas.
main.png
Thus, efforts to derail US gas production by attacking fracking and pipelines is counterproductive environmentally.

So why are environmentalist activists relatively silent on coal? I think it is because they are really watermelon environmentalists - green on the outside, but red on the inside!
Oil and gas have a mythology (not unnervingly so) associated with rugged capitalism, and in the US particularly with Texas/Western oil and gas entrepreneurs and captains of industry.
On the other hand, coal mining is a big component of the mythology of the actually existing socialist countries in Eastern Europe as well as for socialists in places like UK - look no further than the politics surrounding the UK coal miner strikes, including the last big one in 1984-85.

That's a big reason why for example socialist Jeremy was in favor of reopening closed coal mines while opposing fracking for natural gas.

And don't get me started on the whole issue of irrational and ideologically driven opposition to nuclear power!
 

Elixir

Made in America
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
20,458
Location
Mountains
Basic Beliefs
English is complicated
...why are environmentalist activists relatively silent on coal? I think it is because they are really watermelon environmentalists - green on the outside, but red on the inside!

Look at your graph. Coal is going away, both literally and figuratively. It barely needs any help with that. Even Trump's all-in pandering effort didn't reverse or even flatten its decline.
But thanks for invoking yet another right-wing mantra to demonstrate your true place on the political spectrum.
Being a big fan of prostitution doesn't make you a liberal, or even a centrist, BTW.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,137
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
Cornyn is a puppet of the oil and gas industry. He is one of the earliest climate change deniers.

That may be true, but it does not mean Deb Haaland's extremism in the opposite direction is any better.
It means his views should be taken with more than just a grain of salt. By the way, disagreeing with your views is not necessarily extremism.

Despite what many people think, the Department of the Interior is not supposed to be servant of any natural resource extracting industry....
Derec said:
I do not think anybody thinks that........
Riiight. Remind me of your criticisms of the policies Mr. Trump's Secretary of the Interior (a white man) who did the bidding of the natural resource extraction industry?

There is a balance between resource extraction and conservation. And there is a need to move away from the use of fossil fuel sources of energy as quickly as possible while taking into account the effects on the environment. People can reasonably disagree on the speed and scope of this transition. That does not make the "ideologically opposed" to anything in particular.

Personally, I would be much more concerned about Ms. Haaland's seeming lack of experience in managing large organizations and lack of experience in dealing with issues common to the Department of Interior rather than her support for a particular cause.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
Look at your graph. Coal is going away, both literally and figuratively.
Look at the graph again. It has been declining, but it still accounts for ~30% of electricity generation. And a big reason why that happened is fracked gas. The same technology the Left (including Deb Haaland) want to kill.

It barely needs any help with that.
Oh, I disagree. The decline is rather slow, and Biden administration waging war on oil, gas and pipelines will make it slower than it needs to be.
Even Trump's all-in pandering effort didn't reverse or even flatten its decline.
Trump also supported oil and gas. Cheap and plentiful gas, made possible through fracking, is the coal killer. Not wishful thinking and unicorn dust.

But thanks for invoking yet another right-wing mantra to demonstrate your true place on the political spectrum.
You mean the watermelon metaphor? It is not specifically right-wing [being against socialism does not necessarily make soebody a right-winger!], and it fits very well here. It also fits AOC's (who is a self-described socialist) "Green New Deal" which is more about restructuring the economy than about climate or the environment.

Being a big fan of prostitution doesn't make you a liberal, or even a centrist, BTW.

I have liberal views on many issues outside of sex work too. And I mean truly liberal views, not what passes for "liberal" these days. That is beside the point here. Why do you feel the need for that particular non-sequitur all the time? It's getting tiresome.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
It means his views should be taken with more than just a grain of salt.
So do Haalands. A whole salt mine in fact.
And when have I ever taken Cornyn as an authority on climate change or anything else? Again, I am not a right winger or a Republican.

By the way, disagreeing with your views is not necessarily extremism.
Being against all oil and gas pipelines is necessarily extremism though.

Riiight. Remind me of your criticisms of the policies Mr. Trump's Secretary of the Interior (a white man)
Being a "white man" is bad for some reason? He should have been born a half-Indian woman like the current pretender to the position. What was he thinking!

who did the bidding of the natural resource extraction industry?
In what way? Because he is not categorically opposed to oil and gas drilling and moving them from across the country?
Also which SecInt do you mean? He had two.

There is a balance between resource extraction and conservation.
Indeed. There needs to be a balance. I have see not even a glimmer of balance with Deb Haaland's (and more generally with the left-wing of the Democratic Party).

And there is a need to move away from the use of fossil fuel sources of energy as quickly as possible while taking into account the effects on the environment.
We can't just snap fingers and make things happen. Transitioning the entire energy sector takes decades. In the meantime we need oil and gas.
There also need to be clear priorities. Not all fossil fuels are equally bad. Coal is heads and shoulders the worst and should be the priority. But, alas, there is still a lot of coal miner romanticism on the hard Left. The oil and gas industry, with a more capitalist/individualist romanticism of the turn of the century wildcatters makes for a much more class-conscious Feindbild.
Anyway, coal is bad and should go first.
View attachment 31947

And fossil fuels are also not fungible. Gas can replace coal in power generation but cannot readily replace oil in transportation.

People can reasonably disagree on the speed and scope of this transition. That does not make the "ideologically opposed" to anything in particular.

Except that there is ideological opposition to the oil and gas extraction on the Left. "Keep it in the ground" is a common refrain among them, often accompanied by idiotic justifications such as "you can't drink oil". You can't munch on silicon wafers either, but that's no argument against solar power!
There is also ideological opposition to all pipelines that Deb Haaland shares. Biden already killed KXL and might try to kill DAPL. In fact, the Private Jet Liberals from Hollywood are pushing him to do just that.

View attachment 31948
Dum-dums like these two are whom Biden administration erroneously thinks is his "base".

Personally, I would be much more concerned about Ms. Haaland's seeming lack of experience in managing large organizations and lack of experience in dealing with issues common to the Department of Interior rather than her support for a particular cause.

You have a point there. At least Zinke was commander in the Navy and ran some businesses. But being ideologically opposed to oil and gas is a bad choice for SecInt in addition to that. Then there is nuclear power. That's another form of energy the Hard Left has an irrational and ideologically driven opposition to.
 

fromderinside

Mazzie Daius
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
15,607
Location
Local group: Solar system: Earth: NA: US: contiguo
Basic Beliefs
optimist
So after decades of transition the energy industry we're still saying it'll take decades to do so?

Wat the hell have we been doing?

Or, are you just practicing the "don't use government to do anything" gambit which has been their foundational position from the start.

From the above analysis I hope you can wee where your claim of "not republics" has the bucket hole Lucy found which she wants Wilbur to repair.
 

Harry Bosch

Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
5,904
Location
Washington
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
So after decades of transition the energy industry we're still saying it'll take decades to do so?

Wat the hell have we been doing?

Or, are you just practicing the "don't use government to do anything" gambit which has been their foundational position from the start.

From the above analysis I hope you can wee where your claim of "not republics" has the bucket hole Lucy found which she wants Wilbur to repair.

It's primarily due to fear. The irrational fear of nuclear power. Nuclear power is the safe and clean energy that could bridge us until the point where we can economically store solar and wind power in the future. We don't quite have good battery storage capability yet. From what I hear, it's about 20 years out. But we have these unscientific fears of nuclear power.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,137
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
So do Haalands. A whole salt mine in fact.
My guess is that you know nothing about Ms. Haaland's views.
And when have I ever taken Cornyn as an authority on climate change or anything else? Again, I am not a right winger or a Republican.
What are you on about - no one to my knowledge said you were Cornynite.

Being against all oil and gas pipelines is necessarily extremism though.
Do you have any actual evidence that Ms. Haaland is against all oil and gas pipelines? If not, why are you babbling about it?

Being a "white man" is bad for some reason? He should have been born a half-Indian woman like the current pretender to the position. What was he thinking!
My point was (and your obtuse response confirms) that you did not criticize the Trump Secretaries of the Interior for anything. Both were white men. You are not fooling anyone but yourself.
 

Jarhyn

Wizard
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
9,899
Gender
No pls.
Basic Beliefs
Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
My guess is that you know nothing about Ms. Haaland's views.
What are you on about - no one to my knowledge said you were Cornynite.

Being against all oil and gas pipelines is necessarily extremism though.
Do you have any actual evidence that Ms. Haaland is against all oil and gas pipelines? If not, why are you babbling about it?

Being a "white man" is bad for some reason? He should have been born a half-Indian woman like the current pretender to the position. What was he thinking!
My point was (and your obtuse response confirms) that you did not criticize the Trump Secretaries of the Interior for anything. Both were white men. You are not fooling anyone but yourself.

Holy shit I just read Zinke's record of scandals, investigation, and rat-fuckery. It's extensive and soul-crushing.

He devoted his entire career to sacrificing the public trust on an altar of money and greed.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
22,444
Location
Far Western Mass
Gender
Here.
Basic Beliefs
I'm here...
My guess is that you know nothing about Ms. Haaland's views.
What are you on about - no one to my knowledge said you were Cornynite.

Do you have any actual evidence that Ms. Haaland is against all oil and gas pipelines? If not, why are you babbling about it?

My point was (and your obtuse response confirms) that you did not criticize the Trump Secretaries of the Interior for anything. Both were white men. You are not fooling anyone but yourself.

Holy shit I just read Zinke's record of scandals, investigation, and rat-fuckery. It's extensive and soul-crushing.

He devoted his entire career to sacrificing the public trust on an altar of money and greed.

Only the best people
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
So after decades of transition the energy industry we're still saying it'll take decades to do so?
What's illogical about that? Say you have to drive 700 miles. If you drive "hundreds of miles", say 350, you still have "hundreds of miles", in this case 350, to go.
In any case, transition efforts have been going on in earnest for only maybe two decades now. Practical electric cars, renewables becoming cheaper (raw cost at least, there are still issues with intermittency and storage) and gaining market share, etc. are not that far in the past.
We still have at least three decades to go. It's going to take until at least 2050 or so for oil for transportation to become insignificant. Still a low single digits of all new cars are fully electric, but let's say vast majority of new cars and light trucks sold in the US are fully electric by 2035. That means it will take until 2050 at least for vast majority of all cars and light trucks on the road to become all electric.
Similar timeline will probably apply to electricity generation. The priority should be to get coal consumption to as close to zero as possible as quickly as we can. Which means more gas as a transition fuel.

We also need to rethink the environmentalist opposition to nuclear which has never made much sense.

Wat the hell have we been doing?
historical.jpg

Or, are you just practicing the "don't use government to do anything" gambit which has been their foundational position from the start.
Who is "they"?
I do not subscribe to "don't use government to do anything". Government can do a lot of good, first and foremost investment in things like basic research and infrastructure.
Hamstringing domestic US oil and gas production and transportation is not a productive use of federal government power and resources.

From the above analysis I hope you can wee
200.gif
???

where your claim of "not republics" has the bucket hole Lucy found which she wants Wilbur to repair.

200.gif
Who is Lucy? Who is Wilbur?
As to "not republics[sic]", I am definitely not a Republican. I am an independent.
As far as climate, I recognize climate change is real. I think federal government has a definite role to play too. But I also think waging war against domestic oil and gas production and transport is bad policy. We still need oil and gas and the alternative to domestic production is to have to import more of it, at higher prices, and with proceeds going overseas instead of funding US jobs and government revenues through taxation and royalties. The priority should be to phase out coal, the dirtiest of all common energy sources.
What the federal government should do:
- fund basic research in energy technologies and technologies that mitigate effects of climate change.
- Increase carbon price through a carbon tax over time
- Invest in next-gen nuclear technologies. Nuclear is one of the safest and least carbon-intensive energy sources. Unlike wind and solar, nuclear plants can operate contnuously, which means that they are good for baseload. Process heat and excess electricity (e.g. at night) can be used to generate hydrogen for synthesis of other chemicals including synfuels for applications where electric vehicles are not practical, for example jet engines.
- help cities expand their transit systems, including transit-oriented development
 
Last edited:

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
My guess is that you know nothing about Ms. Haaland's views.
I know plenty.
What are you on about - no one to my knowledge said you were Cornynite.
Then why bring him up apropos of nothing?
Do you have any actual evidence that Ms. Haaland is against all oil and gas pipelines? If not, why are you babbling about it?
She may not have explicitly said "all", but there is evidence that she is opposed to all pipelines. She has been explicitly opposed to several pipelines (while not supporting any to my knowledge) and has also come against fracking and in favor of AOC's GND.


My point was (and your obtuse response confirms) that you did not criticize the Trump Secretaries of the Interior for anything. Both were white men.
Should I criticize them because they are white men? Or why else are you so obsessed about their gender and race?

You are not fooling anyone but yourself.
I am not trying to fool anybody. You, on the other hand, are and are failing miserably.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
Holy shit I just read Zinke's record of scandals, investigation, and rat-fuckery. It's extensive and soul-crushing.
What specifically do you find soul-crushing?

He devoted his entire career to sacrificing the public trust on an altar of money and greed.
The public benefits from public lands being developed, as long as it is done responsibly. We all use energy. We all use mined materials such as copper, nickel etc.
The position of Deb Haalands of the world is untenable.
 

Elixir

Made in America
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
20,458
Location
Mountains
Basic Beliefs
English is complicated
The public benefits from public lands being developed, as long as it is done responsibly.

Right winger code for "Land-raping mining companies should be the arbiters of what constitutes "responsible land use".

We all use energy. We all use mined materials such as copper, nickel etc.

Yeah, and we all own shares in copper mines, right? So what's not fair about it?
(Hint: that's right winger nonsense meant to obfuscate the fact that the top 1% wealthiest Americans would like to further enrich themselves at the expense of the "rest", whose investiture in so-called public lands is negligible.)
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
Right winger code for "Land-raping mining companies should be the arbiters of what constitutes "responsible land use".
That you describe extractive industries as "land rape" shows just how radical you really are.

Yeah, and we all own shares in copper mines, right? So what's not fair about it?
No, not all of us, but more than you might think because of holdings in pension funds, mutual funds etc.
In any case, you need to own shares in companies to benefit form copper mining because copper (and other mined metals) benefit you in your daily life in many ways.
And if we are to decarbonize our economy, we will need more copper as well as other metals.
361290908_CDA-Website-Images_Rev1-02.jpg

(Hint: that's right winger nonsense meant to obfuscate the fact that the top 1% wealthiest Americans would like to further enrich themselves at the expense of the "rest", whose investiture in so-called public lands is negligible.)
How is producing materials that are needed by the public 'enriching themselves at the expense of the "rest"'?
Please be specific.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
It's primarily due to fear. The irrational fear of nuclear power. Nuclear power is the safe and clean energy that could bridge us until the point where we can economically store solar and wind power in the future. We don't quite have good battery storage capability yet. From what I hear, it's about 20 years out. But we have these unscientific fears of nuclear power.

True. Nuclear power would be a good solution. Unfortunately there is too much politics against it.
I had put this image in my post above, but for some reason it got deleted. It details both how much CO2 an energy source emits as well as how dangerous it is.
What-is-the-safest-form-of-energy-2048x1129.png
 

ideologyhunter

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
4,800
Location
Port Clinton, Ohio
Basic Beliefs
atheism/beatnikism
"Land rape" is accurate (and perhaps understated) when it comes to the mountaintop removal that has laid waste to once-beautiful stretches of Kentucky and West Virginia. Imagine destroying a mountain -- blowing it up, wrecking it, pitching the broken masses into valleys -- and imagine what you've done to the watersheds. It's an unthinkable squandering of this land that is supposedly your land and my land.
 

Elixir

Made in America
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
20,458
Location
Mountains
Basic Beliefs
English is complicated
That you describe extractive industries as "land rape" shows just how radical you really are.

That you fail to address the matter of profiteers acting as arbitors of "reasonable use", and instead resort to an ad hom characterization, bespeaks your intellectual bankruptcy.
Maybe try sources for your 4-color graphs on copper other than Copper Development Association Inc.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
21,137
Location
Minnesota
Gender
IT
Basic Beliefs
Dogs rule
I know plenty.
Perhaps about other subjects, but there is no evidence to date you know much, if anything, of substance about Ms. Haaland.
Then why bring him up apropos of nothing?
I did not bring him up., ltpetrich did in post 176 to which I replied and then you replied to my post. Try to pay attention,

She may not have explicitly said "all", but there is evidence that she is opposed to all pipelines. She has been explicitly opposed to several pipelines (while not supporting any to my knowledge) and has also come against fracking and in favor of AOC's GND.
You take your beliefe that she explicitly opposed several pipelines (although you don’t appear to have any evidence as the reasons) add in your lack of knowledge about her beliefs on pipelines in general and opposition to fracking and support of GDN to manufacture your claim she is opposed to all pipelines, Wow.


Should I criticize them because they are white men? Or why else are you so obsessed about their gender and race?
You repeat the same stupid straw man. Mr. Zinke has a long list of scandals (https://time.com/5480865/controversies-interior-secretary-ryan-zinke-resignation/and
https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/a-guide-to-the-14-federal-investigations-into-ryan-zinke/) to which you have been completely silent.

I am not trying to fool anybody. You, on the other hand, are and are failing miserably.
We were both wrong. You successfully fool yourself into thinking your criticisms are only driven by policy and reason.
 

Derec

Contributor
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
21,860
Location
Atlanta, GA
Basic Beliefs
atheist
"Land rape" is accurate (and perhaps understated) when it comes to the mountaintop removal that has laid waste to once-beautiful stretches of Kentucky and West Virginia.
I have already said that coal mining needs to be ended asap for a variety of reasons.
Elixir is calling all extractive industries "land rape".
Modern oil and gas drilling for example uses horizontal and "maximum reservoir contact" (i.e. branched) drilling which greatly reduces the above ground well footprint.


There is still need for open pit mining though - for example most copper mines are open pit. When the ore is close to the ground that's how you get to it.

Imagine destroying a mountain -- blowing it up, wrecking it, pitching the broken masses into valleys -- and imagine what you've done to the watersheds. It's an unthinkable squandering of this land that is supposedly your land and my land.

Depending how valuable the stuff under the mountain is. For a long while our industrial society needed coal, and huge quantities of it. Thankfully we have reached the stage of technological development where we no longer need coal. That does not mean that it was wrong to get coal out of the ground when we needed it.

Today we primarily need other things - we still need oil and gas for sure, but in a decarbonized future we will need copper, nickel, lithium even more than today.
 
Top Bottom