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Price Waterhouse analyst murdered in his home by police

Toni said:
Geeze. We have at least two grinders in our house right now and nobody smokes or uses pot or any other drug, period.

They are frequently used to grind coffee and/or herbs (which is a good reason to have more than one).
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Is it that kind of grinder? I was assuming it was something that one would use for plants, the way they were saying it. I was picturing like the meat grinder I bought to shred plant stalks for compost in my garden. It's just a coffee grinder!?
 
Rhea said:
Toni said:
Geeze. We have at least two grinders in our house right now and nobody smokes or uses pot or any other drug, period.

They are frequently used to grind coffee and/or herbs (which is a good reason to have more than one).
Click to expand...

Is it that kind of grinder? I was assuming it was something that one would use for plants, the way they were saying it. I was picturing like the meat grinder I bought to shred plant stalks for compost in my garden. It's just a coffee grinder!?
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I assumed it was a coffee grinder. Or like you said, a grinder to shred plant material. I've never run across a marijuana grinder at Williams-Sonoma before.....

Coffee grinders? yep. Grinders for herbs/spices? Yep. Mortar and pestle? Yep. Maybe the investigators just don't do home cooking?
 
Rhea said:
Toni said:
Geeze. We have at least two grinders in our house right now and nobody smokes or uses pot or any other drug, period.

They are frequently used to grind coffee and/or herbs (which is a good reason to have more than one).
Click to expand...

Is it that kind of grinder? I was assuming it was something that one would use for plants, the way they were saying it. I was picturing like the meat grinder I bought to shred plant stalks for compost in my garden. It's just a coffee grinder!?
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No, they are almost certainly referring to weed grinders, designed to grind weed.

https://www.grasscity.com/us_en/herb-grinders

You can tell they are designed for that because they have "pollen screens", to let the grounded weed sift the "pollen." Actually, they are trichomes which is where the active ingredient is concentrated. This "pollen", or "kief" is what is traditionally used to make hashish. Although, the most traditional methods actually involve rolling the buds in your hand, and the kief will become concentrated and packed as it reacts to the warmth of rolling with your hands. The famous "charas balls" from India.


https://medium.com/@adityaseo09/different-types-of-cannabis-or-charas-of-parvati-valley-f8c2c413782a
 
Derec said:
Maybe.

Ravensky posted a story mentioning the weed from CBS News and Dallas Morning News. Where did Fox News come into the discussion? It's like an obsession with you people!

Please don't pretend it is merely "reporting facts" when this totally irrelevant detail is included in the headline.
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It's part of what was found in the apartment.
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Yes, and it wasn't merely listed soberly in some middle paragraph, it was the headline.

Are you really going to pretend that headlines don't come with angles?

And yes, that Dallas Morning News is a Fox affiliate, or at least the one I saw was a Fox affiliate.



And what do you mean, you people?
;)
 
J842P said:
Rhea said:
Toni said:
Geeze. We have at least two grinders in our house right now and nobody smokes or uses pot or any other drug, period.

They are frequently used to grind coffee and/or herbs (which is a good reason to have more than one).
Click to expand...

Is it that kind of grinder? I was assuming it was something that one would use for plants, the way they were saying it. I was picturing like the meat grinder I bought to shred plant stalks for compost in my garden. It's just a coffee grinder!?
Click to expand...
No, they are almost certainly referring to weed grinders, designed to grind weed.

https://www.grasscity.com/us_en/herb-grinders

You can tell they are designed for that because they have "pollen screens", to let the grounded weed sift the "pollen." Actually, they are trichomes which is where the active ingredient is concentrated. This "pollen", or "kief" is what is traditionally used to make hashish. Although, the most traditional methods actually involve rolling the buds in your hand, and the kief will become concentrated and packed as it reacts to the warmth of rolling with your hands. The famous "charas balls" from India.


https://medium.com/@adityaseo09/different-types-of-cannabis-or-charas-of-parvati-valley-f8c2c413782a
Click to expand...

OK, but some of those look a lot like a grinder I bought from a Pampered Chef party, only mine is white.

I'm not convinced that the police report actually knows or cares about the difference. It is obvious that they are looking for something, anything, to exonerate the police officer, no matter how big a reach their 'discovery' is.
 
Why did they even search his apartment? He's not the one that killed an innocent person. And WTF? How many of us have ever smoked weed or paid for illegal sexual activity, for example? Does using weed mean that a police officer can barge into your home and shoot you? This is totally irrelevant. I don't care what the guy had in his apartment. It has absolutely nothing to do with what this woman did. When are we going to get the toxicology report on the police officer? How many hours was her shift? Was she exhausted and did that influence her poor judgment? Is that what influenced her to go to the wrong door and then over react by shooting someone she thought was a burglar? Does being a police officer mean you shoot first and then ask questions later? Too many police have overstepped their bounds these days. They think they can shoot anyone who they think looks suspicious. This is crazy!
 
J842P said:
Rhea said:
Toni said:
Geeze. We have at least two grinders in our house right now and nobody smokes or uses pot or any other drug, period.

They are frequently used to grind coffee and/or herbs (which is a good reason to have more than one).
Click to expand...

Is it that kind of grinder? I was assuming it was something that one would use for plants, the way they were saying it. I was picturing like the meat grinder I bought to shred plant stalks for compost in my garden. It's just a coffee grinder!?
Click to expand...
No, they are almost certainly referring to weed grinders, designed to grind weed.

https://www.grasscity.com/us_en/herb-grinders

You can tell they are designed for that because they have "pollen screens", to let the grounded weed sift the "pollen." Actually, they are trichomes which is where the active ingredient is concentrated. This "pollen", or "kief" is what is traditionally used to make hashish. Although, the most traditional methods actually involve rolling the buds in your hand, and the kief will become concentrated and packed as it reacts to the warmth of rolling with your hands. The famous "charas balls" from India.


https://medium.com/@adityaseo09/different-types-of-cannabis-or-charas-of-parvati-valley-f8c2c413782a
Click to expand...

Is this the type of thing that generic urban* pot smokers these days own? You don't just buy a bag, roll it and smoke it anymore?
Do you use that with dried weed or is it something that you use when you're growing your own.
Why wouldn't the sellers have already ground it and took out the bit to make the hashish to sell separately?

Boy, things have gotten so complicated since I was young.

* i.e. live in apartments and aren't running out to their own backyards and pulling a bud
 
Toni said:
Geeze. We have at least two grinders in our house right now and nobody smokes or uses pot or any other drug, period.

They are frequently used to grind coffee and/or herbs (which is a good reason to have more than one).
Click to expand...

Likewise. I'm aware of three in our house, one specifically meant as an herb grinder.
 
southernhybrid said:
Why did they even search his apartment? He's not the one that killed an innocent person. And WTF? How many of us have ever smoked weed or paid for illegal sexual activity, for example? Does using weed mean that a police officer can barge into your home and shoot you? This is totally irrelevant. I don't care what the guy had in his apartment. It has absolutely nothing to do with what this woman did. When are we going to get the toxicology report on the police officer? How many hours was her shift? Was she exhausted and did that influence her poor judgment? Is that what influenced her to go to the wrong door and then over react by shooting someone she thought was a burglar? Does being a police officer mean you shoot first and then ask questions later? Too many police have overstepped their bounds these days. They think they can shoot anyone who they think looks suspicious. This is crazy!
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Somebody's dead. You look carefully to be sure things are as they appear. Even natural causes deaths they investigate unless a doctor signs off that it was expected.
 
ZiprHead said:
Derec said:
RavenSky said:
How would you know. Were you there?
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Occam's razor. Your scenario, that she planted the weed would require her to have 10g of weed and a grinder on her when coming home from the job.
Also, it's a pretty useless frame-up.
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But a very useful way to get rid of your weed when you know you will be searched.
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But maybe not when the place you leave it is going to be searched (unless you've been clinical when using it so as not to leave any fingerprints)?

My guess is that if the defence are going to try to make a case for her using the pot, it could be something like..... (and I'm not suggesting this is what happened).....

She accidentally either caught the guy either using pot or having it in his apartment. When he saw a police person at the door he panicked and either (a) moved towards her, perhaps to try to get her out, in a way that warranted her feeling she was at threat or (b) ran back into the apartment (possibly ignoring her warnings) to try to dispose of the pot.

I am not sure what the law is for refusing to follow instructions from a cop in your own apartment but temporarily assuming you are obliged to, then either of those scenarios, perhaps especially the latter, could be argued to be cause for the cop to shoot him (in America I mean). And then her only fault would be argued to have been illegal entry perhaps.

I'm not saying that's a good case, and for all I know it might not even be made. But it's one way for the pot to be argued to be relevant. And as far as I'm aware it doesn't contradict any earwitness accounts.
 
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I don't see a problem with searching his apartment for drugs or anything else, it's whether the info was made public selectively. But it does look like they should get a good idea what happened here.

Dallas district attorney’s office Warrants issued to gather more evidence in police shooting that killed Botham Jean | Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Downloaded data from the electronic door locks could possibly reveal whether the door to Jean’s apartment was locked and what key was used to enter if it was, according to Lee Merritt, one of the attorneys representing Jean’s family.

Merritt said Friday he is more comfortable with the way the Dallas County District Attorney’s Office is investigating the case. Merritt had complained about the issuance of past warrants and the release of the information that was collected.


Merritt said the district attorney’s investigators may be unsure whether Guyger is being forthcoming in her statements and are looking for evidence that will either prove or disprove her version of events.


The warrants allowed for the removal of the front doors of both apartments, their door locks and downloaded data from the door locks, according to reporting from WFAA.


The warrants also show that photographs, videos and laser measurements of firearm trajectory were taken in Jean’s apartment and gunshot residue from his apartment’s door frame and kitchen wall were collected, the WFAA story said.


Another search warrant allowed investigators to collect communications from property management connected to the shooting and seize the logs from access doors and gates and an elevator access door lock as well as a lock audit report for each of their apartments, the WFAA story stated.
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The door lock data might tell whether the door was ajar.
 
ruby sparks said:
ZiprHead said:
But a very useful way to get rid of your weed when you know you will be searched.
Click to expand...

But maybe not when the place you leave it is going to be searched (unless you've been clinical when using it so as not to leave any fingerprints)?

My guess is that if the defence are going to try to make a case for her using the pot, it could be something like..... (and I'm not suggesting this is what happened).....

She accidentally either caught the guy either using pot or having it in his apartment. When he saw a police person at the door he panicked and either (a) moved towards her, perhaps to try to get her out, in a way that warranted her feeling she was at threat or (b) ran back into the apartment (possibly ignoring her warnings) to try to dispose of the pot.

I am not sure what the law is for refusing to follow instructions from a cop in your own apartment but temporarily assuming you are obliged to, then either of those scenarios, perhaps especially the latter, could be argued to be cause for the cop to shoot him (in America I mean). And then her only fault would be argued to have been illegal entry perhaps.

I'm not saying that's a good case, and for all I know it might not even be made. But it's one way for the pot to be argued to be relevant. And as far as I'm aware it doesn't contradict any earwitness accounts.
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Well she did live, quite literally, in the same building. There's little to stop her from going to get the weed from her own apartment, especially since she would know both apartments were likely to be searched, after. It's two birds with one stone.
 
So, even if her story is accurate, she should go to prison for voluntary manslaughter, and be barred from law enforcement and gun ownership for life.

Seems its just a matter of how many years she should go to prison for.
 
Technology, wow amazing what it tracks and the lies that were effective before that it can expose. This is assuming that it is not purposefully hacked.

Not that long ago there where no CCTVs, cell phones, electronic keys and GPS trackers.

The officer may have gone home and heard loud music and went upstairs in uniform (intimidation) to get the guy to turn his music down. Retained data may show this and then she will go down for murder.
 
ronburgundy said:
So, even if her story is accurate, she should go to prison for voluntary manslaughter, and be barred from law enforcement and gun ownership for life.

Seems its just a matter of how many years she should go to prison for.
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Naw, self-defense. The man was clearly high and non-responsive and the officer feared for her life. It was all a horrible misunderstanding and she feels real bad.

So it comes down to how many people on the jury need to believe this... and then agree to convict on some bullshit small charge of unlawfully firing a weapon and calling it a day.

And white people will be happy.
 
ronburgundy said:
So, even if her story is accurate, she should go to prison for voluntary manslaughter, and be barred from law enforcement and gun ownership for life.

Seems its just a matter of how many years she should go to prison for.
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I don't see how any other outcome is possible.

Note that barring from law enforcement isn't even needed--she's not going to be allowed to possess firearms which precludes her being a cop.
 
Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial – CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

The trial started last week and is in now in jury deliberations. It was livestreamed, you can find it on youtube. Jury instructions included consideration of the castle doctrine (right to kill someone in your home), which I would hope the jury finds an absurd defense. But jury instructions also included "mistake of fact" which may be more viable, where she would be not guilty if she reasonably believed she entered her home and that Jean was an intruder. I don't agree it was a reasonable belief. She was mistaken, but I don't think it was a reasonable mistake. If they don't find the killing was justifiable, they can convict for murder or manslaughter. I think manslaughter is the right choice. I won't be surprised if she is acquitted though. She testified and cried on the stand, maybe it swayed some. Though there were non-sympathetic facts brought up as well. She was having an affair with her married partner, and was on the phone with him on the way home that night. Her confusion may have been from being distracted by the call, but I wouldn't say that makes her guilty. Having an affair and being distracted by it isn't criminal. Who knows how that plays though. What is worse to me is that she provided little to no assistance to Jean after she shot him. She called 911 but was also texting her partner in the middle of that call, instead of attending to Jean. They played bodycam video from officers on the scene, I thought she came off selfish, more worried about how the man laying there dying affects her.
 
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