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Problems with the Problem of Evil

The other consideration is that man existed how long before "falling"? The warrantee likely hadn't had time to expire.
Running around buck naked in the sun was just asking for skin cancer. The snake, being a reptile (I guess -- it wasn't yet belly-crawling) knew something about basking time vs. creeping in the shadows time. Had they continued to run around bare-assed while God watched (Hmmmmmm...) they would've been covered with irregular lesions and blotches, and Eden would have needed a melanoma clinic. After the snake came clothes, which amounted to preventive medicine. Hail to thee, reptilian physician!
 
Genesis 3
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

And among God's many accomplishments, God is also a talented tailor. Who knew?
 
Got evidence that God did it?
Got evidence that any gods have ever done anything?

Yep.

Waiting.

I know.
Waiting to say "that's not evidence."
Well, that rather depends on whether or not it is, you know, evidence.

:rolleyesa:

The "Problem with the Problem of Evil" is that if there's no evil you've got nobody to blame for the existence of evil.

And if there's no God, there's no problem of evil.

So it's ironic that the same atheists who accuse God of not being sufficiently benevolent are simultaneously asking for evidence that the God they are referring to actually exists.

...because there's only a 'problem' if He exists.
 

The "Problem with the Problem of Evil" is that if there's no evil you've got nobody to blame for the existence of evil.

And if there's no God, there's no problem of evil.

So it's ironic that the same atheists who accuse God of not being sufficiently benevolent are simultaneously asking for evidence that the God they are referring to actually exists.

...because there's only a 'problem' if He exists.

Sigh.

Please try to understand. We are saying that IF god exists — IF, IF, IF — then the onus is on you to explain how he can be praised for good things but not blamed for bad things. Again, since we don’t think God exists, we have nothing to explain.
 
Anyway, you said you had evidence that God exists, so please present it, if you don’t mind.
 
Have you heard/read what theists call evidence for their god of choice? I think we all have.
I'd rather go back to that objection raised about childhood cancer, as if, how dare we assume that Biblegod had any hand in that. The implications of that objection are pretty wild. 'Intelligent design' and a creator god supposedly account for the universe we're in, but man is in a fallen state -- that's the narrative. Does the objection stated as "Got any evidence that God created childhood cancer?" presume that, in the objector's mind, God created a perfect, painless, harmonious world, and that man messed it all up? Otherwise I don't get the objection. (I know, if man messed it all up, then God not only gave him a destructive nature but planned the result all along. Another rabbit hole.)
So...partial checklist...if God is the Creator, did he or did he not create:
tse tse flies
intestinal worms
fleas
ticks
locust storms
tsunamis
polio
bubonic plague
ALS
muscular dystrophy
spina bifida
cystic fibrosis
asteroid impacts
R Kelly
earthquakes (Feel free to edit the list.)

If you praise God for the rain, do you curse him for the drought?
 
Anyway, you said you had evidence that God exists, so please present it, if you don’t mind.
I think Lion has expressed his certainty that it is evidence to him, and wouldn’t be evidence to you.
IOW, it's Lion’s certainty masquerading as evidence, not actually evidence in any objective scientific sense.
 
With the LDS, it's the 'burning in the bosom' -- a flushed feeling in the chest -- that tells you definitively that you are in communion with the holy spirit. To gain entrance to these realms of faith, there are one or two mental habits you have to check at the door.
 
.

I know.
Waiting to say "that's not evidence."
Well, that rather depends on whether or not it is, you know, evidence.

:rolleyesa:

The "Problem with the Problem of Evil" is that if there's no evil you've got nobody to blame for the existence of evil.

And if there's no God, there's no problem of evil.

So it's ironic that the same atheists who accuse God of not being sufficiently benevolent are simultaneously asking for evidence that the God they are referring to actually exists.

...because there's only a 'problem' if He exists.
No, there's a problem of evil regardless, because evil exists regardless of whether there was anything sane or intelligible to blame.

The problem is in fact a problem only for those who claim Gods exist, for those who claim this is a simulation, and that ultimately simulations are created by someone benevolent.

These are each huge stretches.

For everyone willing to admit that creators, whether or not they exist, do not deserve worship, there remains no problem to which blame must be assigned, and each event is only as "on purpose" evil as purpose held by actors in the system, and the single act the creator is responsible for is "creation", an ultimately neutral act, and it is the responsibility of those purposeful things when purposes are pursued.

It is the assignment of impossible qualities that creates the insanity of Christianity and the problem of evil, and the issue of divine command theory. When these beliefs take root in people who have high in-group, purity, and authority traits, it results in a certain kind of weaponized idiocracy that is the antithesis of what the disciples of John the Baptist preached.

I think that the direct observation of the logic and theory about the consideration of the simulation/host divide has the answers YOU really wish you had. You can get that knowledge. It involves going to school and studying something boring that not everyone even has the mind to understand until it ceases being boring, something that computers will do and in the medium-term future will only be done by humans for artistic purposes.

Humans should among us seek as much as possible to understand as much of technology and how individuals may come to realize their dreams as they may, even when those dreams are dark; how else after all do we understand, but by how they may, to see how we may yet make such dreams as would harm us NOT?

This involves admitting to ourselves that regardless of the nonsense wherein people proclaim without evidence that we are simulated, we are responsible such as we are for what we do, and we ought not do things to others that we do not want done to ourselves.

If there's a god or gods and if that god programs scripted events from which there is no alternative but to be ensnared and puppeteered, if there is a "design of fate", this is itself a true sin, for it could just as easily write me in as someone doomed to fail tragically as it could write me someone to succeed in some grand and joyous comedy and take meaning from the efforts I make relating to who I am and who I shall be in the future!

The problem of evil is a problem only for the believer in God, and so we bring it up as non-believers as a reason to become non-believers so that it's not a logical problem for them anymore.
 
Have you heard/read what theists call evidence for their god of choice? I think we all have.
I'd rather go back to that objection raised about childhood cancer, as if, how dare we assume that Biblegod had any hand in that. The implications of that objection are pretty wild. 'Intelligent design' and a creator god supposedly account for the universe we're in, but man is in a fallen state -- that's the narrative. Does the objection stated as "Got any evidence that God created childhood cancer?" presume that, in the objector's mind, God created a perfect, painless, harmonious world, and that man messed it all up? Otherwise I don't get the objection. (I know, if man messed it all up, then God not only gave him a destructive nature but planned the result all along. Another rabbit hole.)
So...partial checklist...if God is the Creator, did he or did he not create:
tse tse flies
intestinal worms
fleas
ticks
locust storms
tsunamis
polio
bubonic plague
ALS
muscular dystrophy
spina bifida
cystic fibrosis
asteroid impacts
R Kelly
earthquakes (Feel free to edit the list.)

If you praise God for the rain, do you curse him for the drought?
IMG_1344.jpeg
 
Have you heard/read what theists call evidence for their god of choice? I think we all have.
I'd rather go back to that objection raised about childhood cancer, as if, how dare we assume that Biblegod had any hand in that. The implications of that objection are pretty wild. 'Intelligent design' and a creator god supposedly account for the universe we're in, but man is in a fallen state -- that's the narrative. Does the objection stated as "Got any evidence that God created childhood cancer?" presume that, in the objector's mind, God created a perfect, painless, harmonious world, and that man messed it all up? Otherwise I don't get the objection. (I know, if man messed it all up, then God not only gave him a destructive nature but planned the result all along. Another rabbit hole.)
So...partial checklist...if God is the Creator, did he or did he not create:
tse tse flies
intestinal worms
fleas
ticks
locust storms
tsunamis
polio
bubonic plague
ALS
muscular dystrophy
spina bifida
cystic fibrosis
asteroid impacts
R Kelly
earthquakes (Feel free to edit the list.)

If you praise God for the rain, do you curse him for the drought?
Well, see Job, Chapter 38. Who the fuck are you to tell god how to run the universe? The real point of Job is to praise god for the drought. The presence of evil doesn’t mean that god doesn’t exist. It means you don’t understand god.

All that is not to say god exists, just that the PoE is not the best argument in the freethinkers library.
 
Have you heard/read what theists call evidence for their god of choice? I think we all have.
I'd rather go back to that objection raised about childhood cancer, as if, how dare we assume that Biblegod had any hand in that. The implications of that objection are pretty wild. 'Intelligent design' and a creator god supposedly account for the universe we're in, but man is in a fallen state -- that's the narrative. Does the objection stated as "Got any evidence that God created childhood cancer?" presume that, in the objector's mind, God created a perfect, painless, harmonious world, and that man messed it all up? Otherwise I don't get the objection. (I know, if man messed it all up, then God not only gave him a destructive nature but planned the result all along. Another rabbit hole.)
So...partial checklist...if God is the Creator, did he or did he not create:
tse tse flies
intestinal worms
fleas
ticks
locust storms
tsunamis
polio
bubonic plague
ALS
muscular dystrophy
spina bifida
cystic fibrosis
asteroid impacts
R Kelly
earthquakes (Feel free to edit the list.)

If you praise God for the rain, do you curse him for the drought?
Well, see Job, Chapter 38. Who the fuck are you to tell god how to run the universe? The real point of Job is to praise god for the drought. The presence of evil doesn’t mean that god doesn’t exist. It means you don’t understand god.

All that is not to say god exists, just that the PoE is not the best argument in the freethinkers library.
I mean, I have goals for creating a simulation that require a world where evil can exist, though we as humans are hard pressed to make any kind of simulation where there is nothing "evil", let alone one with highly complex assemblies and very simple fundamental rules.

It would not be worth my time to create a simulation with things that I try to convince to exist in my world alongside me if they go running and screaming and demanding deletion at the thought of a world where kids get cancer, if there's no metaphor for something just as awful so they can relate.
 
When does God cancel free will in the Bible?
Lion's god didn't give us free will. Eve took it. Yeah Eve. Lion's god has been using his cult to get it back ever since.
God hardening Pharaoh's heart so that he will not release the Israelites
god has Munchausen's syndrome. Fucking over others to make himself look good.
Would you blame Van Gogh or DaVinci for this...
105045309.jpg
It's hard to see. Did the people on their knees deface Mona? Did DaVinci create those people? If so, then yes, DaVinci is to blame.
If those people are not DaVinci's creations, then your analogy is faulty. Van Gogh?
Prove it or STFU.
Waiting to say "that's not evidence."
If you even know what evidence is, show some already.
evil doesn’t mean that god doesn’t exist. It means you don’t understand god.
I understand Lion's god. He is a trickster god. He lies and calls everyone else liars. Like Rump.
 
Well, see Job, Chapter 38. Who the fuck are you to tell god how to run the universe?
I know, right? Who the fuck are we? I guess we're the group that has to contend with all that, through brain power -- eradicating the biological parasites, analyzing tsunamis and earthquakes to put together early warning systems, curing polio, inventing effective treatment for the plague, extending the life span for those with ALS, MD, CF, and spina bifida, theorizing and testing devices to blow up approaching asteroids, and putting R Kelly in stir for 31 years. (Christian: See? God put you through this crucible of suffering so that you could reach your highest levels of achievement. Plague is good for you!! Job's first batch of kids were probably whiny and wet the bed!! Get over it!!)
R Kelly fans: I just picked a name. It could have been a couple of people. I wish Trump fit the bill.
God: Bring it, dude. We're still here.
 
Got evidence that God did it?
Got evidence that any gods have ever done anything?

Yep.

Waiting.

I know.
Waiting to say "that's not evidence."
Well, that rather depends on whether or not it is, you know, evidence.

:rolleyesa:

The "Problem with the Problem of Evil" is that if there's no evil you've got nobody to blame for the existence of evil.

And if there's no God, there's no problem of evil.

So it's ironic that the same atheists who accuse God of not being sufficiently benevolent are simultaneously asking for evidence that the God they are referring to actually exists.

...because there's only a 'problem' if He exists.
To be fair, you are claiming both a god (benevolent one) and evil (as a tangible thing) coexist.

That is problematic which is why Genesis 50 addresses it (and Yahweh ain't even benevolent)... poorly. It reads like the King in The Little Prince, who can command all things to happen... you know... in its due time.
 
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