Proselytizing

[Tom Sawyer]

But it is a weird thing to be on a mission from God and you're thinking God's on your side. Then, before you can tell the savages the good news, suddenly you're dead.

It is somewhat awkward that God didn't save him. Going to be be avery uncomfortable conversation at the Pearly Gates.

The fact that he was killed by arrows reminds me of one story of a Viking invasion of England - I'm not sure of how historically accurate it might be or how many of the details I remember correctly. The Vikings heard a story about some Saint who'd prayed to God while walking past a group of bandits or something and his prayers caused all the arrows to miss him. This worried the Vikings because they were about to attack a fortified town and if the English god could protect his people from arrows, that would impact their assault and they'd need to adjust their strategy to take it into account.

Fortunately for them, they'd just captured one very devout English Lord. So, they brought him out and told him to pray to his god for protection while they shot arrows at him. All the arrows hit and he fell over dead, so they reasoned that this wasn't something they needed to worry about.

 

[bilby]

https://www.theroot.com/christian-colonizers-demand-justice-for-christian-who-a-1830641749

International Christian Concern, a nonprofit organization that “exists to relieve the suffering of the worldwide persecuted church”, wants the tribe to be charged with murder.

Some Christians aren't just calling him a hero or martyr. They're also calling him murdered and part of an alleged persecution of Christians by Hindus.

For fuck's sake, is there no limit to the ignorance of these morons? The Sentinelese aren't Hindus any more than they are Christians.

 

[Elixir]

The Sentinelese aren't Hindus any more than they are Christians.

The Sentinelese basically ARE Christians, but without the technology.

 

[bilby]

The Sentinelese aren't Hindus any more than they are Christians.

The Sentinelese basically ARE Christians, but without the technology.

The idea of a Christian who has never even heard of Christ, much less worshiped him, seems rather odd to me. Better, perhaps, to turn that around, and say that the Christians basically ARE insular tribalist authoritarian animists, like the Sentinelese, but with technology, a figurehead, and a book.

 

[skepticalbip]

https://www.theroot.com/christian-colonizers-demand-justice-for-christian-who-a-1830641749

International Christian Concern, a nonprofit organization that “exists to relieve the suffering of the worldwide persecuted church”, wants the tribe to be charged with murder.

Some Christians aren't just calling him a hero or martyr. They're also calling him murdered and part of an alleged persecution of Christians by Hindus.

It wasn't persecution of Christians but was an example of a group of people who are really, really serious about their border security. They don't just stop people from entering their island, they make sure that they can never try again.

 

[abaddon]

It wasn't persecution of Christians but was an example of a group of people who are really, really serious about their border security. They don't just stop people from entering their island, they make sure that they can never try again.

Correct. But the person(s) at ICC are missing or ignoring that info. They write at persecution.org about John Lau's death then change it quickly to talk of persecution of Christians across India.

William Stark, ICC’s Regional Manager, said, “We here at International Christian Concern are extremely concerned by the reports of an American missionary being murdered in India’s Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Our thoughts and prayers go out to both John’s family and friends. Every day, new reports of persecution are being documented in India. Many Christians fear this may be the new normal for their community as Hindu radicals and others have been allowed to attack Christians and other minority communities with impunity. India must take steps to counter the growing wave of intolerance and violence.”

https://www.persecution.org/2018/11/20/american-missionary-reportedly-murdered-hostile-tribe-india/

 

[Politesse]

https://www.theroot.com/christian-colonizers-demand-justice-for-christian-who-a-1830641749

International Christian Concern, a nonprofit organization that “exists to relieve the suffering of the worldwide persecuted church”, wants the tribe to be charged with murder.

Some Christians aren't just calling him a hero or martyr. They're also calling him murdered and part of an alleged persecution of Christians by Hindus.

It wasn't persecution of Christians but was an example of a group of people who are really, really serious about their border security. They don't just stop people from entering their island, they make sure that they can never try again.

Indeed, this was his second visit. He had been warned.

 

[RavenSky]

https://www.theroot.com/christian-colonizers-demand-justice-for-christian-who-a-1830641749

International Christian Concern, a nonprofit organization that “exists to relieve the suffering of the worldwide persecuted church”, wants the tribe to be charged with murder.

Some Christians aren't just calling him a hero or martyr. They're also calling him murdered and part of an alleged persecution of Christians by Hindus.

Seems to me if there were ever a good case for "stand your ground", the tribe has it.

 

[bilby]

https://www.theroot.com/christian-colonizers-demand-justice-for-christian-who-a-1830641749

International Christian Concern, a nonprofit organization that “exists to relieve the suffering of the worldwide persecuted church”, wants the tribe to be charged with murder.

Some Christians aren't just calling him a hero or martyr. They're also calling him murdered and part of an alleged persecution of Christians by Hindus.

Seems to me if there were ever a good case for "stand your ground", the tribe has it.

I can't see how the authorities could possibly identify the guilty person or persons; You cannot charge a tribe with murder, any more than you can charge a family, or a town with murder.

If I am killed in Manhattan, then my family might be really upset, but they are going to have no luck getting the city or state of New York charged with murder. If the NYPD can't identify the specific person or persons who killed me, then all they can do is keep the case open and unsolved.

The same applies here - the law prohibits contact with the Sentinelese, so the police can't interview them (even if they can find an interpreter, which they likely can't). How are they supposed to identify the 'guilty' party - and under what jurisdiction would they determine guilt? India claims territorial possession of the island, but they have never tried a crime committed there, and I would argue that the jurisdiction over the island is held in common by the Sentinalese themselves - so IF they consider this killing to be unlawful, they can take action themselves to bring the guilty to justice. And if they consider the killing to be lawful and justified (which they appear to do), then there is no crime. US law doesn't apply. Indian law arguably doesn't either.

There is no case for intervention in an internal judicial matter for the people of North Sentinel Island by any external jurisdiction. They have signed no international treaties, nor any agreement to accept Indian, British, or any other colonial rule. It's their island, and their law - and while I am not a lawyer, I suspect that international law would respect those facts, and allow them unencumbered jurisdiction over the island - as is required by the Indian law against contact.

While it is a rarity for any modern jurisdiction not to have a law against murder, it would appear that North Sentinel Island is such a jurisdiction, as they are not known to have any code of law at all - The place is a libertarian paradise.

So if any Christian group wants any specific Sentinelese person charged with a crime, they will need to petition the Sentinelese directly. Which they are not legally permitted to do, nor linguistically capable of doing.

Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.

 

[fta]

I can't see how the authorities could possibly identify the guilty person or persons; You cannot charge a tribe with murder, any more than you can charge a family, or a town with murder.

That's pretty much what the Indian authorities concluded when the two trespassing fishermen were killed on the island back in 2006. Even the father of one of the dead men more or less forgave the tribe and admitted his son had no business going there.

 

[thebeave]

I'm still baffled as to how this guy thought he was going to explain to a tribe that doesn't speak English all about Jesus, the Gospels, salvation, etc. Shit, I speak and understand English, have a college degree and after 50+ years of exposure to Christianity, it still makes no sense to me.

 

[Lion IRC]

That's right. I don't think language is the barrier. It's a message many just can't accept even when they do understand.

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That's right. I don't think language is the barrier. It's a message many just can't accept even when they do understand.

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles...

That's because crucifixion's a doddle. You should have had him stabbed.

 

[skepticalbip]

That's right. I don't think language is the barrier. It's a message many just can't accept even when they do understand.

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles...

Is that supposed to mean that someone has to believe before they can understand? Isn't that akin to Pelosi saying that we need to pass the bill before we can see what is in it?

 

[Politesse]

I'm still baffled as to how this guy thought he was going to explain to a tribe that doesn't speak English all about Jesus, the Gospels, salvation, etc. Shit, I speak and understand English, have a college degree and after 50+ years of exposure to Christianity, it still makes no sense to me.

It's not about actual success. Guys like this are masturbating in public; grandstanding how faithful they are by performing some theatrical feat of martyrdom. If he'd just wanted to share the gospel with someone, there would have been plenty of people in his life to start with, without trying to cause an international incident and kill hundreds of people with his germs.

 

[fta]

I'm still baffled as to how this guy thought he was going to explain to a tribe that doesn't speak English all about Jesus, the Gospels, salvation, etc. Shit, I speak and understand English, have a college degree and after 50+ years of exposure to Christianity, it still makes no sense to me.

According to CNN, he had ambitions delusions of living among them, learning their language, and translating the Bible into Sentinelese.

 

[Rhea]

That's right. I don't think language is the barrier. It's a message many just can't accept even when they do understand.

Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles...

All these centuries and god couldn’t communicate for himself. He needed some arrogant American human to speak. It’s as if the god doesn’t even exist on his own.

 

[fta]

All these centuries and god couldn’t communicate for himself. He needed some arrogant American human to speak. It’s as if the god doesn’t even exist on his own.

Well, yeah, if it were really that important, God could just make it rain down copies of the Bible on the island in the tribe's own language. If they don't have a written language (which is quite possible), he could make it an Audiobook.

 

[steve_bank]

These missionary types are probably in a state of ecstasy. Something I realized back in the 90s talking to a Christian. It is not just about a simple belief. They are living the supernatural as a reality. God, demons, Satan, evil spirits are reality to them. They are living fantasy-adventure.

Proselytizing is part of the adventure and excitement.

 

[Worldtraveller]

These missionary types are probably in a state of ecstasy. Something I realized back in the 90s talking to a Christian. It is not just about a simple belief. They are living the supernatural as a reality. God, demons, Satan, evil spirits are reality to them. They are living fantasy-adventure.

Proselytizing is part of the adventure and excitement.

Indeed. Every time I go through the SLC airport, there are large groups of mor(m)ons either having a big send off, or welcome home. I wonder if there are statistics on how often they run afoul of local laws, especially in foreign countries.