No. Antifa and Proud Boys may clash, but that is not what the Proud Boys are.
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Proud Boys - what are they?
- Thread starter skepticalbip
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No. Antifa and Proud Boys may clash, but that is not what the Proud Boys are.
barbos
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I am non so sure about white supremacist part cause I saw a picture of a black dude in their ranks.
Nevermind then.
skepticalbip
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They are not the same but the average person (not an antifa activist) has to worry about being assaulted by antifa or having their shop burned if antifa decides to 'occupy' their area. They don't have to worry that the Proud Boys will bother them.
skepticalbip
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Their leader is a black dude and a hispanic. And I have seen pictures of a couple more black dudes.
barbos
Contributor
Aren't all clubs about that?
People try to ascribe some deep philosophy to all that crap when in reality people choose their team at random. All they really want to be on some team, does not really matter which.
repoman
Contributor
That is just not true. You've got it backwards. I don't pretend that "antifa" has not been associated with bad behavior, but you are out of your mind or purposely ignorant if you think that "antifa" is either the same or worse than white supremacist groups like the Proud Boys.
You know what "fascism" means, right? And you know then what "anti-fascism" means? These are not arbitrary labels tossed at people we like or don't like or who agree with our ideologies. They have meaning in terms of human thought and behavior. If they were the same thing there would be no conflict. But the differences, if I have to keep repeating them, are clear. Look up "right wing authoritarian." Look up "fascism." Look up "resistance."
I beg to differ. It certainly does matter. As I've been trying to explain lately, Trump supporters, the white supremacists mainly, are attracted to Trump and each other through hatred of outgroups and a desire to harm or weaken or eradicate them. The ideology is not mysterious or a new phenomenon at all. It's the usual insecure men (mainly) who have been brought up in some form of the abusive father figure paradigm, desperately in need of validation and acceptance, and leaders like Trump strongly appeal to them. He is rich and powerful and is in charge of the whole country, and he approves of them and what they are doing. He also routinely dog whistles their prejudices and fears, and continues to distort or outright lie about what "antifa" means and what people who call themselves antifa actually do, further stoking both the misinformation and the violent tendencies.
I posted the other day in some thread or other about how cults attract people in very different ways. Scientology and the People's Temple, for example, while they are clearly destructive, controlling cults, initially attract people for reasons that are altruistic and based in empathy and a desire to help others and make the world a better place for everyone. Those are the people who are typically attracted to groups like scientology if they don't have any knowledge of the group except for the PR and front matter.
But those people are NOT in the least attracted to the Trump cult or the Proud Boys or any other right wing group based in bigotry and weak ass manchild psychology. Most human beings are not rabid authoritarian morons scared and contemptuous of everyone who is not like them, desperate for safety behind the authority figure as well as free to unleash whatever violence they're inclined to inflict with the authority figure's permission (regardless of how much some of them and their apologists here pretend otherwise). And so such groups would not at all be attractive to anyone else.
There are a lot of reasons people want to be part of groups, and it absolutely does matter which, depending on that person's values, desires, fears, identity, personality, interests, etc. Some groups, either honestly or deceptively, attract the good in people, the desire to help, etc. Other groups and ideologies, such as Trumpism and the Proud Boys, appeal to prejudice and hatred of outgroups.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
It's okay everybody!
The Proud Boys are not fascists. They just literally violently hate anti-fascists. And they are on "STAND BY" until Trump gives the order to do whatever he wants.
The Proud Boys are not fascists. They just literally violently hate anti-fascists. And they are on "STAND BY" until Trump gives the order to do whatever he wants.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
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Roger Stone with the Proud Boys, flashing white supremacy sign:
SNOPES status: TRUE
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/roger-stone-proud-boys/
SNOPES status: TRUE
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/roger-stone-proud-boys/
skepticalbip
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Bad behavior is an understatement. Antifa has sent many innocent people's livelihood up in flames and beat the shit out of quite a few.
I am well aware of what fascism is. You apparently don't. Fascist doesn't mean whatever you don't like.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Now couple that image with this one below which is currently making its rounds on Facebook:
Notice any differences? You should. Blacks among ranks of Proud Boys are extremely rare, like about as rare as blacks in the Confederacy. They existed and do exist.
However, there are too many compared to membership in Proud Boys. None of them are flashing the KKK sign, just the white guys.
The one black guy on the right seems to even have some white guy in the background making a KKK sign in front of him as a joke.
The only question should be are these black guys paid actors?
Notice any differences? You should. Blacks among ranks of Proud Boys are extremely rare, like about as rare as blacks in the Confederacy. They existed and do exist.
However, there are too many compared to membership in Proud Boys. None of them are flashing the KKK sign, just the white guys.
The one black guy on the right seems to even have some white guy in the background making a KKK sign in front of him as a joke.
The only question should be are these black guys paid actors?
You need a fucking mirror. If you know what fascism means, then you would know what anti-fascism means. Anti-fascists are people who oppose the Trumps of the world, the Hitlers of the world, any power that is dictatorial, authoritarian, autocratic in nature.
This is not rocket science. I can only conclude that you are willfully blind to what Trump and his supporters really are.
List the traits and behaviors of right wing authoritarian followers. (The research on RWA used to be referred to as research on fascism. That's what the more recent work is based on.) And then list some traits and behaviors of people who score low on the RWA scale. Let's see if you actually know what you claim to know about.
The denial is deep around here.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
And this just in....
Former White House insider Omarosa Manigault Newman says that Blacks for Trump are in fact often paid to do the things they do.
Former White House insider Omarosa Manigault Newman says that Blacks for Trump are in fact often paid to do the things they do.
skepticalbip
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Just because they call themselves antifa does not mean they are fighting against fascism. Capitalism is not fascism. Private property is not fascism. Not liking a politician does not make him a fascist. If Antifa were to name themselves descriptively some would call themselves Marxists and some would call themselves anarchists.
I have no idea who they were or why they were there, and neither do you. But "antifa" is not an organization. It's anyone who opposes fascist regimes like the Trump administration and all the white supremacists and corrupt cops who worship him. The protests have attracted both antifa and white supremacists and trumpity morons who are there for no other reason than to cause trouble. You will find far more instances of white supremacists going to protests for the purpose of starting violent conflicts, hurting protesters, and pretending to be protesters committing crimes.
And why did you snip out my questions? Why don't you answer them and show that you know what you claim to know?
List the traits and behaviors of right wing authoritarian followers. And then list some traits and behaviors of people who score low on the RWA scale.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
I notice that you are continually derailing your own thread by not accepting who Proud Boys are but instead using the revelations about them as a launching pad to attack Antifa. Perhaps Antifa deserves some criticism, but your substitution of acceptance of facts about Proud Boys--i.e., the thread topic--by continually attacking Antifa with no mention of Proud Boys' racist behaviors is unacceptable.
Let's get you back on track.
Do you accept that Proud Boys continually flashes the KKK symbol? Do you think they do it as a joke on a regular basis?
Let's suppose you think they are just joking about being racists all the time and they are not TRUE racists.
Okay, sure. Do recall, though, that after the unpopularity of Charlottesville, Proud Boys underwent re-branding. If you were a racist alt-right group you'd try to disassociate yourself from unpopularity, too, right? Maybe focus on things like "Western culture" or "Western values" or "tradition?"
marc
Veteran Member
Proud Boys in their own words
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/IGD_News/status/1311178871249616896?s=20[/TWEET]
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/IGD_News/status/1311178871249616896?s=20[/TWEET]