Rice family lawyers request DOJ investigation into conduct of prosecutor's office

[Derec]

Again, this is the "toy" gun Tamir had on him. Note the conspicuous absence of the required orange tip.

He was also 5'7" and 195 lbs and thus looked more like a short, stocky adult (like George Costanza - about 5'5" - or George Zimmermann - 5'7", 185 lbs) than a 12 year old boy. The average 12 year old boy is 4'11" tall and weighs 88 lbs.

The shooting was a tragic mistake, but it was a mistake, not a malicious crime.

 

[ksen]

:yawn:

 

[Derec]

:yawn:

Facts are always boring to those involved in witch hunts with predetermined outcomes.

 

[laughing dog]

:yawn:

Facts are always boring to those involved in witch hunts with predetermined outcomes.

Tamir Rice was gunned down by two police officers in less than 2 seconds. The police did not give Rice enough time to react to their shoutings. Tamir Rice was unarmed and not posing a threat to anyone. One of the officers had been dismissed from his previous police job because he was not thought to be a good police officer. A judge in Cleveland ruled it was murder. And the Cleveland police force has been identified as overly violent. Those are boring facts that indicate that it is reasonable to think there was not something right about Rice's killing.

Rice's family has every right to ask for an investigation into the action of the prosecutor.

 

[ksen]

:yawn:

Facts are always boring to those involved in witch hunts with predetermined outcomes.

tl;dr

 

[Derec]

Tamir Rice was gunned down by two police officers in less than 2 seconds.

As I said, a tragic mistake.

Tamir Rice was unarmed and not posing a threat to anyone.

That is not quite true. He had a pellet gun (which can injure and even kill in rare cases). In addition, that was not apparent from the officers' point of view (the pellet gun was a realistic replica of Colt 1911, a .45 caliber firearm), and neither was Tamir's age. Both these things were only known in hindsight.

A judge in Cleveland ruled it was murder.

No, a municipal judge ruled there was probable cause. Very different.

And the Cleveland police force has been identified as overly violent.

By whom?

Those are boring facts that indicate that it is reasonable to think there was not something right about Rice's killing.
Rice's family has every right to ask for an investigation into the action of the prosecutor.

Prosecutor has to exercise discretion in which cases to bring forward. If it is his opinion that a murder charge is not sustainable then it would be a dereliction of duty to bring the charge anyway. See Marilyn Mosby and her overcharging of the Baltimore Six.

 

[Toni]

As I said, a tragic mistake.

Tamir Rice was unarmed and not posing a threat to anyone.

That is not quite true. He had a pellet gun (which can injure and even kill in rare cases). In addition, that was not apparent from the officers' point of view (the pellet gun was a realistic replica of Colt 1911, a .45 caliber firearm), and neither was Tamir's age. Both these things were only known in hindsight.

Or with more than 2 seconds observation.


The officer's actions MIGHT have been justified if this child were actually firing or even pointing his toy at anyone when the officers arrived. Or if there had been reports of shots fired.

Neither of those things occurred. The officers sped up and opened fire on an unarmed child.

In rare circumstances, a pencil can also be used to kill someone. So can a shoe string. So can a frying pan. Or a rock. Or a stick. So can many other objects. So can bare hands, for that matter.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Again, this is the "toy" gun Tamir had on him. Note the conspicuous absence of the required orange tip.

At some point you need to indicate that the Officer never saw the weapon prior to shooting. So he would never have had time to have seen it didn't have an orange tip at the end of the gun. The Officer assumed the person was going for a gun.

The shooting was a tragic mistake, but it was a mistake, not a malicious crime.

Actually the shooting was negligence upon the two officers, not merely a mistake. The officer put himself immediately and needlessly into potential harms way. He then presumed his life in danger due to slight moves of a likely confused kid of whom needed to digest barked commands from a loudspeaker in a matter of a couple seconds (and probably thought he wasn't in any danger because he didn't actually have a gun). And this ignores not giving the suspect first aid after he was shot. That wasn't an accident, that was callous indifference.

Oddly, I personally witnessed a situation with some similarities this past weekend (literally 100 feet from me), and the officers, of whom had less light, less time, no clear line of sight of a person hiding from them, and certainly more reason to suspect danger to their lives, managed to get the perpetrator without killing him. Of course, they barked very clear orders, didn't carelessly jump into the situation alone without backup (though it was approximately 30 seconds total time from start of approach to arrest). And at least the person they took into custody actually broke a law.

 

[laughing dog]

As I said, a tragic mistake.

A tragic but easily avoidable mistake.

That is not quite true. He had a pellet gun (which can injure and even kill in rare cases).

Tamir Rice was not threatening anyone. Nor was there any indication he was intending to threaten anyone. There was no report of him threatening anyone. So, it is true that Tamir Rice was not posing a threat to anyone.

In addition, that was not apparent from the officers' point of view (the pellet gun was a realistic replica of Colt 1911, a .45 caliber firearm), and neither was Tamir's age. Both these things were only known in hindsight.

Or within 5 to 10 seconds if the officers had not felt the need to start shooting.

No, a municipal judge ruled there was probable cause. Very different.

And yet you wonder why Rice's family wants an investigation of the prosecutor, who has not had these officers arrested.

By whom?

The DOJ with a report that came out over one year ago - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/12/05/the-dojs-jaw-dropping-report-about-the-cleveland-police-department/.

Some highlights are
Our investigation concluded that there is reasonable cause to believe that CDP engages in a pattern or practice of using unreasonable force in violation of the Fourth Amendment. That
pattern manifested in a range of ways, including:

The unnecessary and excessive use of deadly force, including shootings and head strikes with impact weapons;
The unnecessary, excessive or retaliatory use of less lethal force including tasers, chemical spray and fists;
Excessive force against persons who are mentally ill or in crisis, including in cases where the officers were called exclusively for a welfare check; and
The employment of poor and dangerous tactics that place officers in situations where avoidable force becomes inevitable and places officers and civilians at unnecessary risk.

Prosecutor has to exercise discretion in which cases to bring forward.

The family has the right to question his "discretion" when there are apparent conflicts of interest and when a judge ruled there was probable cause.

If it is his opinion that a murder charge is not sustainable then it would be a dereliction of duty to bring the charge anyway.

And it is dereliction duty if his opinion is disinterested.

See Marilyn Mosby and her overcharging of the Baltimore Six.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[atrib]

The shooting was a tragic mistake, but it was a mistake, not a malicious crime.

Based on what I know of the case, I agree that the shooting appears to be a mistake. What I have a problem with in this matter is the obvious lack of good judgement and restraint on part of the officer, who made no attempt to ascertain the nature of the situation (kid playing with a toy gun, not a shooter out on a killing spree) before opening fire and killing an unarmed child. The officer's actions demonstrate a callous disregard for human life, and an unwillingness to consider the results of the lethal force he employed, and I think he should be held accountable for his actions, mistake though it may be.

 

[RavenSky]

:yawn:

Facts are always boring to those involved in witch hunts with predetermined outcomes.

No matter how you try to twist this child with a toy into a a description of a big scary black man, the facts still remain that these two cops roared up without assessing the situation and opened fire - killing a completely innocent person.

I don't care if Tamir Rice really was a "short, stocky adult" - the police actions here were 100% wrong.

 

[Toni]

Facts are always boring to those involved in witch hunts with predetermined outcomes.

Well, Derec, you would be speaking from experience, so I guess you should know.

 

[Derec]

Tamir Rice shooting: No charges for officers
Unsurprisingly there will be no charges filed against the officers. I wonder how big the protests are going to be.

 

[laughing dog]

And people wonder the police and our justice system are viewed with such mistrust by segments of our society.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Tamir Rice shooting: No charges for officers
Unsurprisingly there will be no charges filed against the officers. I wonder how big the protests are going to be.

We'll see. Probably not too large. It apparently doesn't matter.

What I find odd is that you apparently don't think anything needs to change after a person who was breaking no laws was gunned down by a police officer. That absolutely no accountability is necessary here.

 

[Toni]

Tamir Rice shooting: No charges for officers
Unsurprisingly there will be no charges filed against the officers. I wonder how big the protests are going to be.

We'll see. Probably not too large. It apparently doesn't matter.

What I find odd is that you apparently don't think anything needs to change after a person who was breaking no laws was gunned down by a police officer. That absolutely no accountability is necessary here.

Not odd at all but entirely consistent with Derec's world view: scary black person killed by white police. What's wrong with that?--aside from the fact that it was a child doing nothing wrong which even a few seconds to assess would have told the officers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We'll see. Probably not too large. It apparently doesn't matter.

What I find odd is that you apparently don't think anything needs to change after a person who was breaking no laws was gunned down by a police officer. That absolutely no accountability is necessary here.

Not odd at all but entirely consistent with Derec's world view: scary black person killed by white police. What's wrong with that?--aside from the fact that it was a child doing nothing wrong which even a few seconds to assess would have told the officers.

He wasn't a child, he was a 5000 pound man beast, with cannons where his chest was, like a Voltron beast.

 

[atrib]

Tamir Rice shooting: No charges for officers
Unsurprisingly there will be no charges filed against the officers. I wonder how big the protests are going to be.

We'll see. Probably not too large. It apparently doesn't matter.

What I find odd is that you apparently don't think anything needs to change after a person who was breaking no laws was gunned down by a police officer. That absolutely no accountability is necessary here.

Derec doesn't believe that black people are human. A black kid gunned down by a trigger happy cop is just an administrative problem, and deserves no more attention than a cop who runs over a dog by accident.

 

[Derec]

Derec doesn't believe that black people are human.

What an incredibly vile and idiotic thing to say!

 

[Derec]

Not odd at all but entirely consistent with Derec's world view: scary black person killed by white police.

In Georgia a couple if years ago a teenager holding a non-gunlike Wii controller was shot in his own doorstep by a cop who also shot before assessing the situation. No charges for the officer, but also no national news coverage, no protests, no trending Twitter hashtags and no DOJ investigation. I wonder why.

What's wrong with that?--aside from the fact that it was a child doing nothing wrong which even a few seconds to assess would have told the officers.

Tamir did plenty wrong. He played with a realistic looking gun with orange tip removed. He went for his waistband when police pulled up. Police did plenty of wrong too - like pulling up too close. But I do not think the wrong police did amounts to murder.