Rittenhouse/Kenosha Shooting Split

[Derec]

This is like a reception these days.... what is a football move?

Heh?

What is self-defense when someone crosses state lines while armed with a dangerous weapon (he isn't legally old enough to possess),

Rittenhouse did not cross state lines with a weapon to go to the Kenosha riots. He and his sister were already in Kenosha when the riots started. He is also seen cleaning up graffiti made by Antifa vandals the night before.

Also, the gun was purchased by his friend's father (paid by Kyle's COVID unemployment) with the intention of transferring ownership to Kyle when he turns 18. I do not know where the narrative that he crossed the state lines armed with a rifle with the purpose of going to the riots came from, but it is as fictional as that prosecutor's opening statement.

Note also that Antioch is very close to Kenosha (20 miles or so) while Gaige Grosskreutz, the surviving Antifa rioter, was from Milwaukee (40 miles away), but nobody objects to him travelling from out of area.

to walk amongst a protest (not even participate in)?

He was also offering medical assistance, and had a med kit with him.

If the law provides cover for such wanton stupidity, the law needs to go.

It was not the smartest decision for Kyle to go to downtown Kenosha given that he was attacked by Antifa rioters.
But why do you not object to the much bigger stupidity of the Anifa rioters who vandalized and torched the city of Kenosha over a justified police shooting? Or the colossal stupidity of Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskreutz (reads like a law firm, lmao!) to attack an armed person? At least Grosskreutz had a gun on him (and an idea to false surrender in order to get a drop on Kyle) but bringing a skateboard or a bag-o-stuff to a gunfight is Darwin award territory.

 

[Derec]

Strange how you reverse your stance when the "child" is white.

I am not reversing my stance, just wondering why all you who insisted that Trayvon was a "child" are now reversing your stance.

 

[Arctish]

Criminal activity like setting fires or attacking a child^*?

^* If 17 year old Trayvon is always referred to as a "child" on here, why not 17 year old Kyle?

17 year old Trayvon Martin is referred to as a teenager. 12 year old Tamir Rice is referred to as a child. And we all know just how much responsibility you placed on them for the outcome of their actions.

We all have a pretty good idea what you would have said if either one had had an AR-15, knowingly and deliberately went to an area where a confrontation was likely to occur, and wound up killing a couple of white guys. It will be very interesting to see what standards you try to apply here, given your posting history.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is like a reception these days.... what is a football move?

Heh?

What is self-defense when someone crosses state lines while armed with a dangerous weapon (he isn't legally old enough to possess),

Rittenhouse did not cross state lines with a weapon to go to the Kenosha riots. He and his sister were already in Kenosha when the riots started. He is also seen cleaning up graffiti made by Antifa vandals the night before.

Also, the gun was purchased by his friend's father (paid by Kyle's COVID unemployment) with the intention of transferring ownership to Kyle when he turns 18. I do not know where the narrative that he crossed the state lines armed with a rifle with the purpose of going to the riots came from, but it is as fictional as that prosecutor's opening statement.

Note also that Antioch is very close to Kenosha (20 miles or so) while Gaige Grosskreutz, the surviving Antifa rioter, was from Milwaukee (40 miles away), but nobody objects to him travelling from out of area.

to walk amongst a protest (not even participate in)?

He was also offering medical assistance, and had a med kit with him.

If the law provides cover for such wanton stupidity, the law needs to go.

It was not the smartest decision for Kyle to go to downtown Kenosha given that he was attacked by Antifa rioters.
But why do you not object to the much bigger stupidity of the Anifa rioters who vandalized and torched the city of Kenosha over a justified police shooting? Or the colossal stupidity of Rosenbaum, Huber and Grosskreutz (reads like a law firm, lmao!) to attack an armed person? At least Grosskreutz had a gun on him (and an idea to false surrender in order to get a drop on Kyle) but bringing a skateboard or a bag-o-stuff to a gunfight is Darwin award territory.

You are basically showing that his basic intentions were good. I don't think it's disputed that he felt he was on the side of good. The question is whether he stepped over the line into vigilantism.

 

[Trausti]

Criminal activity like setting fires or attacking a child^*?

^* If 17 year old Trayvon is always referred to as a "child" on here, why not 17 year old Kyle?

17 year old Trayvon Martin is referred to as a teenager. 12 year old Tamir Rice is referred to as a child. And we all know just how much responsibility you placed on them for the outcome of their actions.

We all have a pretty good idea what you would have said if either one had had an AR-15, knowingly and deliberately went to an area where a confrontation was likely to occur, and wound up killing a couple of white guys. It will be very interesting to see what standards you try to apply here, given your posting history.

It would be nice if generally we stopped trying to excuse the bad behavior of teenagers by calling them “kids.” Teenagers know damn well the difference between right and wrong.

 

[Arctish]

It would be nice if generally we stopped trying to excuse the bad behavior of teenagers by calling them “kids.” Teenagers know damn well the difference between right and wrong.

Older teenagers like Kyle Rittenhouse, yes. Younger ones, not so much.

Also, it would be nice if we used a non-race based standard for determining what constitutes bad behavior. What 17 year old Rittenhouse did was much more bad than anything 17 year old Martin did. You might be able to make the case that Rittenhouse's actions were of a similar level of badness as Rice's right up to the point when Rittenhouse started shooting, but Rice wasn't even a teenager yet.

 

[ZiprHead]

It would be nice if generally we stopped trying to excuse the bad behavior of teenagers by calling them “kids.” Teenagers know damn well the difference between right and wrong.

Older teenagers like Kyle Rittenhouse, yes. Younger ones, not so much.

Also, it would be nice if we used a non-race based standard for determining what constitutes bad behavior. What 17 year old Rittenhouse did was much more bad than anything 17 year old Martin did. You might be able to make the case that Rittenhouse's actions were of a similar level of badness as Rice's right up to the point when Rittenhouse started shooting, but Rice wasn't even a teenager yet.

I'm not so sure he knew his possesion of that AR was illegal.

 

[Trausti]

It would be nice if generally we stopped trying to excuse the bad behavior of teenagers by calling them “kids.” Teenagers know damn well the difference between right and wrong.

Older teenagers like Kyle Rittenhouse, yes. Younger ones, not so much.

Also, it would be nice if we used a non-race based standard for determining what constitutes bad behavior. What 17 year old Rittenhouse did was much more bad than anything 17 year old Martin did. You might be able to make the case that Rittenhouse's actions were of a similar level of badness as Rice's right up to the point when Rittenhouse started shooting, but Rice wasn't even a teenager yet.

I'm not so sure he knew his possesion of that AR was illegal.

Probably did.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm not so sure he knew his possesion of that AR was illegal.

Probably did.

What makes you think so?

 

[blastula]

it is as fictional as that prosecutor's opening statement.

Where did he lie?

I'm not so sure he knew his possesion of that AR was illegal.

Probably did.

What makes you think so?

He asked his friend to buy the gun for him because he was underage. And that could be the only charge that sticks.

From what I saw of the opening statements, there may be too much doubt available in his favor on the others. It was a chaotic scene and the victims weren't behaving so sympathetically. Barring Rittenhouse testifying poorly,* he will probably garner more sympathy than the people he shot at. The counts for shooting Huber and Grosskreutz are probably the weakest because they had weapons. The others maybe might succeed. Rosenbaum looks to be the biggest asshole of all involved, but he was unarmed, as was the man Rittenhouse shot at and missed. If those fail, the count for endangering McGinnis might still fly.

It's a confusing situation where he may be able to claim self defense because people were trying to take his gun from him which could be used on him, which would nonsensically mean if you shoot someone, anybody who tries to take your gun is then fair game. Does anybody know how the law works in that scenario?

*Or allowing evidence like this

Kyle Rittenhouse was recorded weeks before the Kenosha shooting saying he wished he 'had my f---ing AR' to shoot at people leaving CVS, prosecutors say

Kenosha prosecutors say a new video provides "crucial insight" into Kyle Rittenhouse's vigilante state of mind in summer 2020.

www.insider.com

P.S. on the political/cultural front, the trial will not be helping the left by reminding people how violent and destructive some blm demonstrations became. Lots of testimony of burned out cars and destroyed businesses already.

 

[Trausti]

I'm not so sure he knew his possesion of that AR was illegal.

Probably did.

What makes you think so?

Kyle Rittenhouse's friend, Dominick Black, testifies he bought the gun used in Kenosha shootings

Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm not so sure he knew his possesion of that AR was illegal.

Probably did.

What makes you think so?

Kyle Rittenhouse's friend, Dominick Black, testifies he bought the gun used in Kenosha shootings

Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

Black should be charged with a straw purchase.

Rittenhouse is charged with minor in possesion of a firearm. It makes no difference how the minor acquired the firearm for that charge.
In his home state, minors can possess firearms. Minors can possess firearms almost all over the country. My father took me out shooting when I was a kid. During the time I was shooting the weapon, I was a minor in possession even though it was my father's gun. It depends upon the legal definition of possesion and whether he knew possesion was illegal in the state he was not native to.

 

[laughing dog]

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse.

Responsible gun owners should know the laws. Irresponsible ones don’t.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse.

It is with a lawyer at a high enough pay scale.

 

[ZiprHead]

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse.

It's not. I'm not trying to defend KR. Just countering Trausti's contention that KR knew what he was doing.

 

[TomC]

17 year old Trayvon Martin is referred to as a teenager.

I don't know where you were at the time. But I clearly recall a huge number of reports of the event at the time referring to Martin as a child and with a pic attached taken when he was 12.

I'm not justifying Zimmerman's behavior by any stretch. But this fake news about Martin did seriously influence the national conversation about the event.
Tom

 

[Trausti]

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse.

It's not. I'm not trying to defend KR. Just countering Trausti's contention that KR knew what he was doing.

What? KR knew he wasn't allowed the guy until 18. That's why it was kept in a safe. He only got it after Black's stepfather took the guns out because of the rioting. KR then just picked it up and went.

 

[ZiprHead]

I thought ignorance of the law was no excuse.

It's not. I'm not trying to defend KR. Just countering Trausti's contention that KR knew what he was doing.

What? KR knew he wasn't allowed the guy until 18.

In his home state. He wasn't in his home state.

That's why it was kept in a safe. He only got it after Black's stepfather took the guns out because of the rioting. KR then just picked it up and went.

 

[blastula]

The gun was purchased in Wisconsin, so he knew.