Roe v Wade is on deck

[thebeave]

So, I'm supposed to go through the trouble of finding the true number of doctors in the US who will do these elective late term abortions so as to disprove your unverifed, unsubstantiated claim that there are zero doctors who will perform these late term abortions? Isn't the process supposed to start with you by demonstrating it is zero? I think yours is the more extraordinary claim, not mine.

Yes, you are to do that because you are claiming harm. So stop bullshitting and do it.

??? What harm am I claiming? And since when does a "claim of harm" obligate a person to verify a statement?

 

[Elixir]

How often something is selected is not the same as discussing whether or not is should be allowed to be selected. There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

That doesn't mean it's actually happening. Do you think there are obstetricians out there who would actually abort and kill a nine month unborn baby just because mom says so? I've only heard of one such person and he went to jail for a very long time.

You've fallen for the propaganda.

Zackly.
Emily can’t present statistics for optional third trimester abortions, BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAPPEN!!
Vanishingly rare if ever. But old white men get their jollies by controlling women’s reproductive functions, with help from enablers like her.

 

[Elixir]

There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

Can you point to a number of 3rd trimester optional abortions performed in those states?
Didn’t think so.
But let’s have monthly vaginal inspections of all our chattel women by a House Committee elder just to make sure they’re not killing microscopic blobs of protoplasm.

 

[thebeave]

There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

Can you point to a number of 3rd trimester optional abortions performed in those states?
Didn’t think so.
But let’s have monthly vaginal inspections of all our chattel women by a House Committee elder just to make sure they’re not killing microscopic blobs of protoplasm.

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, if no one wants them and no doctor will perform them? It just seems odd to me. Like going out of your way to make a law that says its legal to walk around in public with a plate of spaghetti on your head, when no one ever does this, or even wants to. I would suspect there is something fishy going on, but maybe that's just me, as I tend to be more skeptical than most people, I think.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How often something is selected is not the same as discussing whether or not is should be allowed to be selected. There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

That doesn't mean it's actually happening. Do you think there are obstetricians out there who would actually abort and kill a nine month unborn baby just because mom says so? I've only heard of one such person and he went to jail for a very long time.

You've fallen for the propaganda.

If 19% of the general population is OK with it, then wouldn't one assume that, roughly, 19% of obstetricians in those seven states are OK with it? Granted, likely some of them are OK with it being legal, but would not do it themselves. Regardless, if only 1% of OB/GYNs in those seven states actually would approve and are doing it, that still adds up. So, I would say the answer to your question is most certainly "yes".

Because most if not all of those 19% know that viable late term pregnancies will end up with delivery, not abortion. Nobody's going to abort a healthy late term fetus. It's better that it be a medical decision than a legal decision. When it's a legal decision we see what's actually happening in Texas--doesn't matter if it's doomed, push her to the brink. Some are going to fall over that brink.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That doesn't mean it's actually happening. Do you think there are obstetricians out there who would actually abort and kill a nine month unborn baby just because mom says so? I've only heard of one such person and he went to jail for a very long time.

You've fallen for the propaganda.

Excellent point-out.

Regardless, if only 1% of OB/GYNs in those seven states actually would approve and are doing it, that still adds up. So, I would say the answer to your question is most certainly "yes".

Adds up to what?

Adds up to a significantly more than zero number of OBs who will do these late term abortions. Ziprhead seems to think there are zero.

In the states where there's no legal restriction the number is zero. Why should we think it would be different than it actually is?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Adds up to a significantly more than zero number of OBs who will do these late term abortions. Ziprhead seems to think there are zero.

Women with complications in states where there is no abortion are going to die, Tubal pregnancies for example are going to kill women. It will add up, don't you think?

The outcry has caused them to back away from the most extreme position.

However, it's still a matter of whether you do an early chemical abortion when it appears to be a tubal (which is a negative test--can't find the pregnancy on ultrasound and it's assumed to not be in the uterus), or you go in surgically later and remove the tube in the process, costing her half her fertility.

 

[laughing dog]

There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

Can you point to a number of 3rd trimester optional abortions performed in those states?
Didn’t think so.
But let’s have monthly vaginal inspections of all our chattel women by a House Committee elder just to make sure they’re not killing microscopic blobs of protoplasm.

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, ii no one wants them.

Because there are rare situations where a late term abortion may make good medical sense - the mother’s life is in peril, the fetus is not viable, etc…,

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Prove it with verified numbers.

That's my point. Must have flown to fast, too high and too quiet. I'd also like to see numbers of women dying because of complications in states where abortion tolerance is zero. If you're gonna argue something you must have some facts to back it up.

They stopped tracking maternal mortality so the deaths can be passed off as something else. The thing is causes of death aren't absolute. Death certificates have the thing the patient died of and what lead up to that. In many cases you can fudge the data by omitting some or all of the what lead up to that. That's why we were looking at the excess mortality numbers rather than the Covid death numbers. Many death certificates, especially in red areas, were omitting Covid in the what lead up to that. Sometimes through ignorance (didn't test for it--especially in the early part testing was limited and wouldn't be wasted on the dead), sometimes through willful ignorance (they could have tested but didn't want to see the answer) and sometimes through malice.

The fact that they stopped tracking means they know there's something to cover up--they know they are killing women. I'm not aware of any cases where it was unquestionably proven that death came from a lack of an abortion but all we know are the cases where someone went public. We do have one case of a molar pregnancy being left too long but I have seen no followup to know if it metastasized before she got her abortion. If she dies I'm sure they will not admit the cancer was from a delayed abortion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Adds up to what?

Adds up to a significantly more than zero number of OBs who will do these late term abortions. Ziprhead seems to think there are zero.

Late term abortions are only an issue if you assume the reasons for them are trivial, selfish, or inhumane.

I have a family member who had a late term abortion. A prenatal exam revealed her fetus had developmental defects that were 'incompatible with life'. She continued her pregnancy for a few more weeks despite the risk to herself so that her fetus' lungs would develop. She wanted to make sure there was a least a chance he could survive, but had to undergo a ceasarean delivery when her own health started failing. Post mortem confirmed blood clots in the umbilical cord, missing organs, organs outside of the body, and more.

Is there anyone here who objects to the health care my relative received?

Not me. But we were talking about the seven states where there are no limitations on abortions.

When it comes to the health of a person there should be no limitations on medical procedures.

Doctor: Okay Melissa, I believe we have come to a consensus on how we will to move forward with treating your condition, but before we proceed, there are these people outside that want to provide you their moral opinion on what you should be allowed to do.

 

[Toni]

There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

Can you point to a number of 3rd trimester optional abortions performed in those states?
Didn’t think so.
But let’s have monthly vaginal inspections of all our chattel women by a House Committee elder just to make sure they’re not killing microscopic blobs of protoplasm.

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, if no one wants them and no doctor will perform them? It just seems odd to me. Like going out of your way to make a law that says its legal to walk around in public with a plate of spaghetti on your head, when no one ever does this, or even wants to. I would suspect there is something fishy going on, but maybe that's just me, as I tend to be more skeptical than most people, I think.

Because the law provides for extremely difficult and often medically necessary to provide a safer outcome for the mother and/or to alleviate pain and suffering for a fetus with no chance of survival beyond a few moments or hours if carried to term.

It also provides the opportunity to terminate an unwanted pregnancy when the woman did not know she was pregnant until after the cutoff date for abortion. This is much more common than you might imagine. Not all women have regular menstrual cycles and some women experience bleeding while pregnant that mimics their period.

You are correct that many doctors do not perform late term abortions. But women should have the absolute right to seek out a doctor who will, and to obtain an abortion they feel necessary.

 

[Elixir]

There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

Can you point to a number of 3rd trimester optional abortions performed in those states?
Didn’t think so.
But let’s have monthly vaginal inspections of all our chattel women by a House Committee elder just to make sure they’re not killing microscopic blobs of protoplasm.

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, if no one wants them and no doctor will perform them?

No, not in terms of rational reasons. But as a power-tripping tool for aging white male incels, laws governing women’s reproductive functions are as close as they can get to getting one to submit to them.

It just seems odd to me. Like going out of your way to make a law that says it’s legal to walk around in public with a plate of spaghetti on your head, when no one ever does this, or even wants to.

I think that’s a decent approximation, except that plates of spaghetti on heads don’t require invasive body inspections to know they’re there.

I would suspect there is something fishy going on, but maybe that's just me, as I tend to be more skeptical than most people, I think.

Fishy… perverted… religious… psychotic…
There’s a whole rainbow of descriptors of the mental illnesses afflicting old white men. Any one of them can lead a dried up old geezer to elevate the importance of non-sentient blobs of protoplasm above that of actual thinking, feeling, living persons with actual thoughts, hopes, dreams and memories.
It’s sick.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, if no one wants them and no doctor will perform them? It just seems odd to me. Like going out of your way to make a law that says its legal to walk around in public with a plate of spaghetti on your head, when no one ever does this, or even wants to. I would suspect there is something fishy going on, but maybe that's just me, as I tend to be more skeptical than most people, I think.

Another non answer.

 

[ZiprHead]

From Pew Research. 63% of Americans think abortion should be legal in all or most cases. This may very well be a very big problem for the GOP in November Roevember.

Abortion - Research and data from Pew Research Center

Research and data on Abortion from Pew Research Center

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Elixir]

I can’t explain why ANY abortion laws exist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, if no one wants them and no doctor will perform them? It just seems odd to me. Like going out of your way to make a law that says its legal to walk around in public with a plate of spaghetti on your head, when no one ever does this, or even wants to. I would suspect there is something fishy going on, but maybe that's just me, as I tend to be more skeptical than most people, I think.

Because it's a medical decision, not a political decision. And you don't understand how law works: Law prohibits things, things on which it is silent are legal. "Abortion is legal anytime" isn't a law, it's a lack of a law.

Furthermore, look at Roe vs Wade. It was imposed because SCOTUS observed that all existing abortion laws were clearly unconstitutional. And that hasn't really changed--abortion law has always been about punishing the sluts, nothing else. And it still is, although now we have some bonkers politicians that have no idea of what they are making laws about so they get even stupider.

Missouri woman sues University of Kansas hospital that denied her an emergency abortion • Missouri Independent

A Missouri woman is suing the University of Kansas Health System, accusing the hospital of sex discrimination and of violating EMTALA.

missouriindependent.com

Hospital to hospital, there was no doubt about the medical situation. She wasn't going to have a living baby. The only question is whether the fetus took her with it. And the hospitals were saying that she wasn't close enough to dead yet.

<Throws thebeave out of a plane. If you pull your chute before 800' AGL you're going to jail. Pay no attention to the fact that there's about a 1 in 1,000 chance your main won't deploy properly and you'll have no time to cut away and use your reserve. And pay no attention to the fact that normal chutes take hundreds of feet to open.>

 

[Copernicus]

There are seven states in the US right now where abortion is legal at any point in the pregnancy, with no limitations at all.

Can you point to a number of 3rd trimester optional abortions performed in those states?
Didn’t think so.
But let’s have monthly vaginal inspections of all our chattel women by a House Committee elder just to make sure they’re not killing microscopic blobs of protoplasm.

Can you explain why such loose abortion laws even exist in the first place, if no one wants them and no doctor will perform them? It just seems odd to me. Like going out of your way to make a law that says its legal to walk around in public with a plate of spaghetti on your head, when no one ever does this, or even wants to. I would suspect there is something fishy going on, but maybe that's just me, as I tend to be more skeptical than most people, I think.

But you aren't skeptical about a law that criminalizes walking around with a plate of spaghetti on your head? Your argument cuts both ways. There are legitimate reasons to perform late term abortions--to preserve the health of the mother or to prevent needless suffering for a nonviable fetus. There is no perfect solution for every situation, but the worst solution is for people with no stake in the outcome of such a pregnancy to overrule the judgment of the woman and her doctors.

 

[Elixir]

There is no perfect solution for every situation, but the worst solution is for people with no stake in the outcome of such a pregnancy to overrule the judgment of the woman and her doctors.

There is a perfect “solution” to this manufactured “problem”. The question “why are there loose abortion laws if nobody wants them” is leading and presumptive. It assumes that there is some reason for abortion laws, which there isn’t.
The fact that legislators can impose statutory restrictions upon their constituents’ behavior, even if most of those constituents disapprove, is why there are laws about abortion.
Those complaining about how strict or loose they are, have lost sight of the real problem: abortion laws.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

With the Roberts Court, can't tell if her complete lack of standing will matter.

Makes me ponder who can challenge it? People are literally not harmed by gay marriage.

Yeah, it's basically the ultimate example of a victimless activity.

 

[ZiprHead]

With the Roberts Court, can't tell if her complete lack of standing will matter.

Makes me ponder who can challenge it? People are literally not harmed by gay marriage.

Yeah, it's basically the ultimate example of a victimless activity.

Insurance companies that are required to provide marital benefits.