Roe v Wade is on deck

[Toni]

Well, no: abortions could be performed during the third trimester with restrictions if states chose to put restrictions in place.

Those laws were never intrusive, and were never intended to be. They were closer to superfluous. The rarity of medically optional third term abortions made it so.
The whole playing filed is fucked up now; Justices Thomas' and Alito's noses are under the tent, and good religious people are about to let the whole corrupt herd of camels into your doctor's office, your house, your kids' schools - the whole ball of wax.

Yeah, those laws were intrusive as intended . The intention was to throw up so many barriers that women would not be able to obtain an abortion. Some of the tactics included making them listen or watch videos that talked about killing babies, that abortion causes breast cancer, etc.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah, those laws were intrusive as intended

I guess we best not speculate on the intent of individual advocates of “those laws” as I strongly suspect that they vary widely.
I just oppose regulating stuff where regulation causes worse effect than government MINDING ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Any how, there was no messing around with ectopic pregnancies back in those days, and it wasn’t an over-inflated political football. At least in CO.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, those laws were intrusive as intended

I guess we best not speculate on the intent of individual advocates of “those laws” as I strongly suspect that they vary widely.
I just oppose regulating stuff where regulation causes worse effect than government MINDING ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Any how, there was no messing around with ectopic pregnancies back in those days, and it wasn’t an over-inflated political football. At least in CO.

By far the best treatment for an ectopic discovered early enough is a chemical abortion. But that would mean the drug had to be available. (And it is on obstetric crash carts for post-partum bleeding. One state is trying to make it a controlled substance--which will remove it from the crash carts. They don't put unnecessary stuff on crash carts, the whole idea is to get it right now so they aren't going to want to wade through any more than they have to in looking for it.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, those laws were intrusive as intended

I guess we best not speculate on the intent of individual advocates of “those laws” as I strongly suspect that they vary widely.
I just oppose regulating stuff where regulation causes worse effect than government MINDING ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Any how, there was no messing around with ectopic pregnancies back in those days, and it wasn’t an over-inflated political football. At least in CO.

By far the best treatment for an ectopic discovered early enough is a chemical abortion. But that would mean the drug had to be available. (And it is on obstetric crash carts for post-partum bleeding. One state is trying to make it a controlled substance--which will remove it from the crash carts. They don't put unnecessary stuff on crash carts, the whole idea is to get it right now so they aren't going to want to wade through any more than they have to in looking for it.

Some ectopic pregnancies can be resolved by using methotrexate but that is not without some side effects.

Added here for clarity. Most often when talking about terminating an early pregnancy, one is talking about using mifepristone and misoprostol which should not be used in the case of a discovered ectopic pregnancy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, those laws were intrusive as intended

I guess we best not speculate on the intent of individual advocates of “those laws” as I strongly suspect that they vary widely.
I just oppose regulating stuff where regulation causes worse effect than government MINDING ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Any how, there was no messing around with ectopic pregnancies back in those days, and it wasn’t an over-inflated political football. At least in CO.

By far the best treatment for an ectopic discovered early enough is a chemical abortion. But that would mean the drug had to be available. (And it is on obstetric crash carts for post-partum bleeding. One state is trying to make it a controlled substance--which will remove it from the crash carts. They don't put unnecessary stuff on crash carts, the whole idea is to get it right now so they aren't going to want to wade through any more than they have to in looking for it.

Some ectopic pregnancies can be resolved by using methotrexate but that is not without some side effects.

Added here for clarity. Most often when talking about terminating an early pregnancy, one is talking about using mifepristone and misoprostol which should not be used in the case of a discovered ectopic pregnancy.

I didn't remember the drug names. Just that it's by far the best way to resolve an ectopic caught early enough.

And from Louisiana:

(Talking about making misoprostol a controlled substance)

Doctors grapple with how to save women's lives amid 'confusion and angst' over new Louisiana law • Louisiana Illuminator

Under a new state law, Louisiana doctors might not be able to quickly access one of the most widely used life-saving medications for pregnant women.

lailluminator.com

But because it is used for abortion, misoprostol has been targeted by conservatives in Louisiana — an unprecedented move for a medication that routinely saves lives. A controlled dangerous substance has extra barriers for access, which can delay care.

 

[Toni]

Yeah, those laws were intrusive as intended

I guess we best not speculate on the intent of individual advocates of “those laws” as I strongly suspect that they vary widely.
I just oppose regulating stuff where regulation causes worse effect than government MINDING ITS OWN BUSINESS.
Any how, there was no messing around with ectopic pregnancies back in those days, and it wasn’t an over-inflated political football. At least in CO.

By far the best treatment for an ectopic discovered early enough is a chemical abortion. But that would mean the drug had to be available. (And it is on obstetric crash carts for post-partum bleeding. One state is trying to make it a controlled substance--which will remove it from the crash carts. They don't put unnecessary stuff on crash carts, the whole idea is to get it right now so they aren't going to want to wade through any more than they have to in looking for it.

Some ectopic pregnancies can be resolved by using methotrexate but that is not without some side effects.

Added here for clarity. Most often when talking about terminating an early pregnancy, one is talking about using mifepristone and misoprostol which should not be used in the case of a discovered ectopic pregnancy.

I didn't remember the drug names. Just that it's by far the best way to resolve an ectopic caught early enough.

And from Louisiana:

(Talking about making misoprostol a controlled substance)

Doctors grapple with how to save women's lives amid 'confusion and angst' over new Louisiana law • Louisiana Illuminator

Under a new state law, Louisiana doctors might not be able to quickly access one of the most widely used life-saving medications for pregnant women.

lailluminator.com

But because it is used for abortion, misoprostol has been targeted by conservatives in Louisiana — an unprecedented move for a medication that routinely saves lives. A controlled dangerous substance has extra barriers for access, which can delay care.

Ectopic pregnancies are not generally evident at a point in time early enough to use medication to terminate.

I understand from a politycal
POV why there is such a push to make abortion meds and birth control pills OTC but I have some very serious concerns about the potential side effects or more likely, the side effects from not taking he meds as directed and/or not taking them correctly with a pregnancy occurring in the case of incorrectly used bc pills or an abortion not completing and either resulting in a continued pregnancy with a damaged fetus or sepsis.

 

[ZiprHead]

Supreme Court declines Biden's appeal in Texas emergency abortion case

The Supreme Court decided Monday that a court order finding Texas hospitals cannot federally be required to provide pregnancy terminations when they violate a state abortion ban will stay for now.

apnews.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — A court order that says hospitals cannot federally be required to provide pregnancy terminations when they violate a Texas abortion ban will stay for now, the Supreme Court said Monday.

The decision is another setback for opponents of Texas’ abortion ban, which for two years has withstood multiple legal challenges, including from women who had serious pregnancy complications and have been turned away by doctors.

It left Texas as the only state where the Biden administration is unable to enforce its interpretation of a federal law in an effort to ensure women still have access to emergency abortions when their health or life is at risk.

The justices did not detail their reasoning for keeping in place a lower court order, and there were no publicly noted dissents. Texas had asked the justices to leave the order in place while the Biden administration had asked the justices to throw it out.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton called the decision “a major victory.”

 

[zorq]

It left Texas as the only state where the Biden administration is unable to enforce its interpretation of a federal law in an effort to ensure women still have access to emergency abortions when their health or life is at risk.

The Biden administration argues that a federal law, called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA, requires emergency rooms to provide abortions if a pregnant patient’s health or life is at serious risk, even in states where the procedure is banned. The law only applies to emergency rooms that receive Medicare funding, which most hospitals do.

So... when do state laws supersede federal laws? Is this good news for state Weed laws? Or is that a different ball of worms? Alternatively, Is this like how the drinking age is tied to federal highway funding and now the Feds are going to pull Medicaid funding from Texas for breaking the rules?

Are there other precedents for State laws trumping Federal laws?

 

[Patooka]

So... when do state laws supersede federal laws?

Not a lawyer and not an American but I could have sworn never;

Supremacy Clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution of the United States (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the "supreme Law of the Land", and thus take priority over any conflicting state laws

I'm sure I'm overlooking some legalese fuckery, but I'm not sure what.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ectopic pregnancies are not generally evident at a point in time early enough to use medication to terminate.

I understand from a politycal
POV why there is such a push to make abortion meds and birth control pills OTC but I have some very serious concerns about the potential side effects or more likely, the side effects from not taking he meds as directed and/or not taking them correctly with a pregnancy occurring in the case of incorrectly used bc pills or an abortion not completing and either resulting in a continued pregnancy with a damaged fetus or sepsis.

If they are trying to conceive it might be found in time.

 

[Toni]

Ectopic pregnancies are not generally evident at a point in time early enough to use medication to terminate.

I understand from a politycal
POV why there is such a push to make abortion meds and birth control pills OTC but I have some very serious concerns about the potential side effects or more likely, the side effects from not taking he meds as directed and/or not taking them correctly with a pregnancy occurring in the case of incorrectly used bc pills or an abortion not completing and either resulting in a continued pregnancy with a damaged fetus or sepsis.

If they are trying to conceive it might be found in time.

If they are trying to conceive it is unlikely that they will be using OTC birth control pills...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ectopic pregnancies are not generally evident at a point in time early enough to use medication to terminate.

I understand from a politycal
POV why there is such a push to make abortion meds and birth control pills OTC but I have some very serious concerns about the potential side effects or more likely, the side effects from not taking he meds as directed and/or not taking them correctly with a pregnancy occurring in the case of incorrectly used bc pills or an abortion not completing and either resulting in a continued pregnancy with a damaged fetus or sepsis.

If they are trying to conceive it might be found in time.

If they are trying to conceive it is unlikely that they will be using OTC birth control pills...

Note the first word of the quote of your post: "ectopic". Somebody trying to conceive might very well discover the pregnancy early enough and get an early enough ultrasound to resolve an ectopic without surgery. One of the cases being fought about is a woman who was trying to get a chemical abortion because of that--ultrasound couldn't visualize the pregnancy. Either very bad luck (multiple attempts had failed) or it wasn't in her uterus at all.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How Kentucky's former top prosecutor used his powers to go after abortion providers in secret • Kentucky Lantern

A legal battle waged in secret involved the GOP candidate for governor and an issue of intense public interest, abortion.

kentuckylantern.com

No evidence of any crime committed, yet he went after doctors who performed abortions. Pure terrorism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Republicans, I hope you like child abuse:

Nearly 65,000 US rape victims could not get an abortion in their state, analysis shows

Researchers estimated likely number of rape-related pregnancies in 14 states with near-total abortion bans since Dobbs ruling

www.theguardian.com

65,000 (and this number is old, it's certainly higher now) rape pregnancies denied abortions (although the records don't show if they got an abortion elsewhere.) You think a woman will suddenly come to love the legacy of her rape???

 

[Toni]

Ectopic pregnancies are not generally evident at a point in time early enough to use medication to terminate.

I understand from a politycal
POV why there is such a push to make abortion meds and birth control pills OTC but I have some very serious concerns about the potential side effects or more likely, the side effects from not taking he meds as directed and/or not taking them correctly with a pregnancy occurring in the case of incorrectly used bc pills or an abortion not completing and either resulting in a continued pregnancy with a damaged fetus or sepsis.

If they are trying to conceive it might be found in time.

If they are trying to conceive it is unlikely that they will be using OTC birth control pills...

Note the first word of the quote of your post: "ectopic". Somebody trying to conceive might very well discover the pregnancy early enough and get an early enough ultrasound to resolve an ectopic without surgery. One of the cases being fought about is a woman who was trying to get a chemical abortion because of that--ultrasound couldn't visualize the pregnancy. Either very bad luck (multiple attempts had failed) or it wasn't in her uterus at all.

My post expanded the topic and referred back to OTC birth control pills.

If a pregnancy is not detected in the uterus with positive pregnancy tests and/or symptoms, ultrasound including the Fallopian tubes is warranted to attempt to driver if the embryo has implanted in some place other than a uterus.

 

[Shadowy Man]

So... when do state laws supersede federal laws?

Not a lawyer and not an American but I could have sworn never;

Supremacy Clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution of the United States (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the "supreme Law of the Land", and thus take priority over any conflicting state laws

I'm sure I'm overlooking some legalese fuckery, but I'm not sure what.

Sure, but with the SCOTUS, the Constitution can mean whatever the majority of justices decides it means, so don’t put too much stock in that document.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Republicans, I hope you like child abuse:

Nearly 65,000 US rape victims could not get an abortion in their state, analysis shows

Researchers estimated likely number of rape-related pregnancies in 14 states with near-total abortion bans since Dobbs ruling

www.theguardian.com

65,000 (and this number is old, it's certainly higher now) rape pregnancies denied abortions (although the records don't show if they got an abortion elsewhere.) You think a woman will suddenly come to love the legacy of her rape???

It certainly should be her choice, and not some dumbass in the State Legislature.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Republicans, I hope you like child abuse:

Nearly 65,000 US rape victims could not get an abortion in their state, analysis shows

Researchers estimated likely number of rape-related pregnancies in 14 states with near-total abortion bans since Dobbs ruling

www.theguardian.com

65,000 (and this number is old, it's certainly higher now) rape pregnancies denied abortions (although the records don't show if they got an abortion elsewhere.) You think a woman will suddenly come to love the legacy of her rape???

Conservative: “so, because she won’t love the baby that gives her the right to kill the baby?”

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ZiprHead]

Ron DeSantis’ Administration Is Threatening to Prosecute the Media for Airing Pro-Choice Ads

There is a perverse irony here.

slate.com

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration is threatening TV stations that air ads in support of an abortion rights ballot initiative with criminal penalties, including jail time.

DeSantis and his allies are already spending large sums of taxpayer dollars to fight Amendment 4, which would enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution if voted into law in November. His “election police” have interrogated and intimidated residents who signed petitions to put it on the ballot. His administration created a publicly funded, state-run website condemning the amendment, and has run ads promoting the current law, which bans abortions after six weeks.

Now, however, DeSantis is escalating the battle: On Oct. 3, his Department of Health sent a letter to at least one local NBC affiliate suggesting that prosecutors could bring criminal charges against the TV station for airing ads that encourage residents to vote for the amendment. The letter, first reported by investigative journalist Jason Garcia, asserted that the ads violate Florida’s “sanitary nuisance” law and that stations may commit a second-degree misdemeanor by carrying them, subjecting their employees to a 60-day jail sentence.


The Florida Department of Health’s allegations are absurd on several levels. The agency claims that the advertisement in question is “false” and “dangerous” because it informs viewers that the state’s six-week ban imperils the life and health of pregnant women. But it is demonstrably true that Florida’s ban jeopardizes the well-being of women. Moreover, even if the ad exaggerated these harms—indeed, even if it were arguably false—it would still receive bulletproof First Amendment protections. And TV stations would have an insurmountable constitutional shield against any punishment for airing it.

Damn. These people are freakin' nuts.