Roe v Wade is on deck

[Toni]

Absence of the dangly bits.

I know you like to believe that.

Believe that everything that happens to women is because men are evil patriarchal assholes.

I don't see the world in such simple and sexist terms.
Tom

I was simply answering your question to Derec regarding his opinion of Clinton.

As to your world view and how simplistic or sexist it might be, that would hardly be for the likes of me to have an opinion about,

 

[Toni]

Hillary beat Sanders. Easily.

In the Dem primary. Not hard to understand given that she was an experienced Democratic politician, and Sanders wasn't even a Democrat.

Sanders beat her in the presidential election. He made sure that enough Democratic voters considered her terrible that Trump won the White House and appointed three scotus judges.
Tom

How interesting an opinion that is: Sanders beat Clinton in a race for POTUS. He lost in the primaries to her.

I should think that such a rebel as Bernie Sanders would be horrified to think that he played any role in maintaining the status quo by helping to defeat Mrs. Clinton. What a terrible thing for you to suggest!

 

[lpetrich]

Katie Lannan on Twitter: "Under an executive order Gov. Baker signed today, Mass. "will not cooperate with extradition requests from other states pursuing criminal charges against individuals who received, assisted with, or performed reproductive health services that are legal in [MA]," per his office." / Twitter
noting
No. 600: Protecting Access to Reproductive Health Care Services in the Commonwealth | Mass.gov

Tracking Where Abortion Is Now Banned - The New York Times

• Abortion outlawed immediately in AL, AR, KY, LA, MO, OK, SD, UT, WI
• Abortion outlawed "within days" in MS, WY
• Abortion outlawed after 30 days in ID, ND, TN, TX
• Abortion may soon be outlawed in WV
• Abortion only before 6 weeks: GA, NC, OH
• Abortion only before 15 weeks: AZ, FL
• Uncertain status: IA, IN, KS, MI, MT, NC, NE, PA, VA
• Abortion protected: AK, CO, IL, MA, ME, MN, NH, NM, NV, RI
• Abortion access expanded: CA, CT, DC, DE, HI, MD, NJ, NY, OR, VT, WA

 

[lpetrich]

Kavanaugh Gave Private Assurances on Roe v. Wade. Collins Says He ‘Misled’ Her. - The New York Times

“Start with my record, my respect for precedent, my belief that it is rooted in the Constitution, and my commitment and its importance to the rule of law,” he said, according to contemporaneous notes kept by multiple staff members in the meeting. “I understand precedent and I understand the importance of overturning it.”

“Roe is 45 years old, it has been reaffirmed many times, lots of people care about it a great deal, and I’ve tried to demonstrate I understand real-world consequences,” he continued, according to the notes, adding: “I am a don’t-rock-the-boat kind of judge. I believe in stability and in the Team of Nine.”

Persuaded, Ms. Collins, a Republican, gave a detailed speech a few weeks later laying out her rationale for backing the future justice that cited his stated commitment to precedent on Roe, helping clinch his confirmation after a bitter fight. On Friday, Justice Kavanaugh joined the majority in overturning the decision he told Ms. Collins he would protect.

Sen. SC said that she was "misled" and Sen. Joe Manchin expressed similar sentiments.

“I trusted Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh when they testified under oath that they also believed Roe v. Wade was settled legal precedent and I am alarmed they chose to reject the stability the ruling has provided for two generations of Americans,” said Mr. Manchin, who himself is anti-abortion.

Thousands Gather in N.Y.C. to Protest After Supreme Court Overturned Roe v. Wade - The New York Times

Supreme Court’s Abortion Decision Roils Midterm Elections - The New York Times - "Democrats hope the fall of Roe v. Wade will jolt abortion rights supporters into action in midterm elections. But is it enough to turn voters’ attention away from inflation?"

Roe v. Wade Decision Prompts Closures and Confusion at Abortion Clinics - The New York Times - "Some clinics vowed to carry on providing abortions in states with limits or outright bans, only to reverse course midday and halt procedures over concerns about whether their actions were suddenly illegal."

How G.O.P. Support for Decriminalizing Abortion Faded Over Decades - The New York Times - "Before the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling, more Republicans than Democrats backed decriminalizing the procedure. But a political and religious coalition rose and took the party in a new direction."

Greenhouse and Siegel tell the story of how G.O.P. strategists in the early 1970s decided that the party could attract new Republican voters by making a play to Catholics and evangelicals centered on abortion.

It took about 10 years for this new political coalition to coalesce along with the rise of Ronald Reagan, they write — powered by the emerging alliance between evangelical Christians and Catholics.

Because of the Southern Strategy and wanting to get the votes of disaffected Dixiecrats.

 

[lpetrich]

June 24, 2022: The Day Chief Justice Roberts Lost His Court - The New York Times - "Outflanked by five impatient and ambitious justices to his right, the chief justice has become powerless to pursue his incremental approach."

Are Abortion Medications Delivered by Mail Illegal? - The New York Times
"It is still legal in most states to receive abortion medication by mail, which has been allowed since December 2021, when the Food and Drug Administration lifted a restriction that required patients to obtain the pills from a certified provider."

Abortion Funds Raise Millions in Donations to Help People Seeking the Procedure - The New York Times

As of Friday afternoon, the National Network of Abortion Funds, which has 97 member organizations, had received more than $3 million from about 33,000 new donations — more than 4,500 of which were recurring — since the Supreme Court’s decision became public this morning, said Debasri Ghosh, the fund’s managing director. In May, when a draft of the Supreme Court’s opinion on Roe v. Wade leaked, the fund received about $1.5 million in donations over a week.

“It’s an incredible outpouring of support,” Ms. Ghosh said.

The fund had not actively sought these donations, Ms. Ghosh said, because its website temporarily crashed Friday morning due to “an unprecedented, massive spike in traffic that we just couldn’t prepare for.” She said the donations were “entirely organic.”

Politicians React to Supreme Court’s Ruling on Abortion - The New York Times - "Democratic leaders condemned the court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, while some Republican lawmakers celebrated the ruling."
and
Video: Members of Congress Voice Mixed Opinions on the Roe v Wade Ruling - The New York Times

In the video:
D: Sen. Chuck Schumer, VP Kamala Harris, Sen. Dick Durbin
R: Rep. Kevin McCarthy, Rep. Michelle Fischbach

Speaker Nancy Pelosi was visibly shaken at her weekly news conference, saying, “It’s just stunning — and again as a woman, as a mother, as a grandmother, to see young girls now have fewer rights than their moms or even their grandmothers, is something very sad for our country.”

Separately, she described the ruling as “cruel,” “outrageous” and “heart-wrenching.”

On the other side,

Some lawmakers expressed satisfaction with the court’s ruling, including Representative Majorie Taylor Greene, Republican of Georgia, who walked into the House chamber with a smile and said the decision was “a blessing.”

“People need to understand this doesn’t end abortion and just simply gives it back to the states, allowing the states to make their own laws,” she said.

The Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, who has played a major role in shaping the Supreme Court, said he shared the joy of those celebrating the ruling.

Representative Jim Jordan, Republican of Ohio, declared on the House floor: “God bless the United States Supreme Court, and God bless President Trump for the people he selected for our highest court.”

Some exceptional good sense from MTG, I must concede. It's not going to be good enough for anti-abortionists when several states not only accept abortion, but actively defend it and offer their clinics to people from anti-abortion states.

Scene Outside Mississippi Abortion Clinic After Roe Is Overturned - The New York Times - "Clinic escorts directed traffic outside the Jackson Women’s Health Organization as a small group of anti-abortion demonstrators gathered outside after the Supreme Court’s reversal of Roe v. Wade."

Trump, the Man Most Responsible for Ending Roe, Worries It Could Hurt His Party - The New York Times - Donald Trump

 

[Copernicus]

Sounds like gay rights, right to contraception and other such rights will also come under threat:

After Roe reversal, gay rights and contraception could be next, says Justice Thomas

“In future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents,” conservative Justice Clarence Thomas's concurring opinion reads.

fortune.com

You'd better also reconsider interracial marriage while you're at it, Clarence. Otherwise people will think you're a hypocrite.

My wife thought this, too, but I immediately thought that the Constitution forbade discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, or religion. However, there is nothing in the Constitution to directly forbid that kind of discrimination at the state level. The 14th amendment might be invoked to claim that there is such a ban on discrimination, but that was the position of previous Court decisions.

This decision pretty much turns those previous precedents on their heads. No past Supreme Court decision is cast in stone, and this Court is quite willing to overturn any past decision that it disagrees with on ideological grounds. They seem to view their power as a grant to exercise the nuclear option on a great many laws that had previously been considered based on rights unenumerated in the Constitution. The 14th amendment doesn't apply here, according to this decision. Justice Roberts thought that the 14th amendment could possibly justify some cases of abortion, but he decided to apply a "what the heck" principle in this case and side the the majority position that the 14th did not apply here. Perhaps he didn't want to see abortion banned without at least having his fingerprints on that decision.

Bans on racial discrimination are based on unenumerated rights. So, if a state decided to ban interracial marriage, would the current Court agree? To be consistent, they should, but it isn't logic or law that is driving their decisions. It is their power to simply block laws that offend their personal sense of morality. Such a ban would break up Thomas's marriage, so he would never agree to it. Breaking up same-sex marriages--that's a different story.

 

[lpetrich]

Key Passages From the Supreme Court’s Decision Overturning Roe - The New York Times

Democrats Turn to Donors After the Roe v. Wade Decision - The New York Times

NY State Governor Kathy Hochul:
Hochul Calls Supreme Court’s Abortion Ruling ‘Repulsive’ - The New York Times - 'Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York condemned the decision, saying extremism had “infiltrated the Supreme Court of the United States of America.”'

How Women Who Support Abortion Rights Are Reacting to Roe v. Wade - The New York Times

• Thinking of the next generation of young women
• ‘Women should have the choice’
• A fear that a lack of access to abortion will lead to deaths
• ‘The decision has set women back at least 100 years’
• A Mississippi woman reacts with anger, but not disbelief
• ‘The nation is on fire’

Abortion Rights Firewall Under Way in California, Oregon, Washington - The New York Times
noting
Multi-State-Commitment-to-Reproductive-Freedom_Final-1.pdf
stating

• Protect against efforts by states hostile to abortion rights to target patients who receive legal reproductive healthcare services in our states, those who support patients in accessing reproductive healthcare services in our states, and licensed medical professionals who provide legal reproductive healthcare services in our states; and
• Protect against judicial and local law enforcement cooperation with out-of-state investigations, inquiries, and arrests regarding the provision of, receipt of, inquiry about, or assistance with obtaining abortion and other reproductive healthcare services that are legal in our states; and
• Refuse non-fugitive extradition of individuals for criminal prosecution for receiving legal reproductive healthcare services in our states, supporting patients in accessing reproductive healthcare services in our states, or providing legal reproductive healthcare services in our states, and charge our state judiciaries with not issuing subpoenas or summons in cases where prosecution is pending, or where a grand jury investigation has commenced or is about to commence, for a civil or criminal violation of a law of another state involving the provision or receipt of or assistance with lawful reproductive healthcare services accessed in one of our states; and
• Protect against the misuse of medical records and other personal and sensitive health information to target patients who receive legal reproductive healthcare services in our states, those who support patients in accessing legal reproductive healthcare services in our states, and licensed medical professionals who provide legal reproductive healthcare services in our states; and
• Protect against adverse actions by personal or professional liability insurers against those who assisted an individual from out-of-state in receiving an abortion or other reproductive healthcare services in our states, solely on that basis; and
• Defend and protect licensed medical professionals in continuing to provide reproductive healthcare, in compliance with state and federal law, including by supporting legislative and executive actions to protect licensed medical professionals from adverse actions by licensing boards and liability insurers solely because the professionals provided reproductive healthcare services in our states consistent with state and federal law and standards of care, when the claims are based on laws in other states that are hostile to abortion rights and are contrary to the public policy of our states; and
• Promote greater access to abortion care services, including by expanding access to medication abortion, removing barriers to telehealth for reproductive healthcare services, and growing the pool of qualified practitioners who may provide abortion and other reproductive healthcare services; and
• Defend against false and misleading reproductive healthcare information.

In effect, making those states into abortion sanctuaries.

 

[lpetrich]

World Leaders React to Roe Ruling - The New York Times
noting
As Abortion Rights Expand, the U.S. Joins a Handful of Telling Exceptions - The New York Times - "Recent shifts on access to abortion suggest democracy and women’s rights go hand in hand — and that the inverse might be true as well."

The liberalizing trend, from Britain’s Abortion Act, passed in 1967, through Mexico’s ruling this week, has usually followed a pattern.

A women’s rights movement will arise somewhere, often as part of democratization, in which such groups may play a prominent role. Medical groups and United Nations agencies might voice support. Public opinion on abortion will soften.

A partial or local-level legalization will prove popular, as happened in Mexico, paving the way to more. The legislature or high court, perhaps bowing to public pressure, will step in.

And each breakthrough will inspire others. Mexico’s campaigners wore green handkerchiefs, a nod to Argentine activists who pushed successfully for legalization last year.

Seeing what they’ve done in Latin America, 10 years ago we’d have thought it was impossible,” said Serra Sippel, the president of the Center for Health and Gender Equity.

Then about opponents of abortion finding new allies. "Still, in most countries, forces like partisanship or nationalism only slow the expansion of abortion rights. It takes something more drastic to roll it back."

High courts are generally thought to incorporate public opinion on contentious social matters. Mexico’s is an example: It jumped ahead of public opinion on abortion, but in a direction that Mexicans were slowly trending.

But last week’s United States ruling may be symptomatic, some political scientists argue, of a significant change in democracy there and elsewhere. Its major institutions increasingly empower minority rule.

“Thirty-five, 40 percent of the electorate,” said Steven Levitsky, a Harvard University scholar on democracy, “now can be enough, given the electoral system,” to win power.

The US Senate and Electoral College give some voters more weight than others, but for the first time in US history, this division corresponds to political-party divisions, with the more-weighted voters being typically Republican.

"Republicans won the national popular vote in only one out of the last eight presidential elections, but have appointed six of the nine current Supreme Court justices."

In societies with high polarization, he has found, parties often fight bitterly for control of the courts. These contests tend to send a message, intended or not, that courts exist to serve partisan interests, rather than guard against them.

Rulings at odds with public opinion, Dr. Levitsky said, can become “very likely in a period of polarization and hardball politics.”

This may help explain why all three countries to roll back abortion rights this century — Nicaragua, Poland and the United States — did so amid bare-knuckle fights for control of the high court.

 

[lpetrich]

The US and Poland followed very similar trajectories about abortion. The two countries are alike in another way: strong regional divisions:  Poland A and B - Poland A is mostly ex-German and Poland B is mostly ex-Russian and ex-Austrian, and there are other differences, like Poland A being more secular and more pro-Western than Poland B.

In both, high courts rolled back abortion rights that were favored by national majorities.

And both rulings were preceded by the rise of populist leaders who widened social divisions and promised to smash or co-opt independent institutions.

Conservative groups have long sought to overturn abortion laws. But they have been “radicalized” by the populist surge, Dr. Levitsky said, of voters who see themselves as besieged minorities fighting for the survival of their way of life.

...
Curbs on women’s rights tend to accelerate in backsliding democracies, a category that includes the United States, according to virtually every independent metric and watchdog.

In more degraded democracies, the effect is more extreme. Around the globe, the rise of right-wing populism has been followed by extraordinary reductions in women’s rights, according to a 2019 report by Freedom House.

Strongmen often curb civil society as a whole, of which women’s groups tend to be leading members. And they rise on appeals to nationalism, with its calls for rigid social hierarchies and mores.

“There is a trend to watch for in countries that have not necessarily successfully rolled it back, but are introducing legislation to roll it back,” Rebecca Turkington, a University of Cambridge scholar, said of abortion rights, “in that this is part of a broader crackdown on women’s rights. And that goes hand in hand with creeping authoritarianism.”

 

[lpetrich]

Back to World Leaders React to Roe Ruling - The New York Times

Prime Minister of Canada:
Justin Trudeau on Twitter: "The news coming out of the United States is horrific. My heart goes out to the millions of American women who are now set to lose their legal right to an abortion. I can’t imagine the fear and anger you are feeling right now." / Twitter
then
Justin Trudeau on Twitter: "No government, politician, or man should tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. I want women in Canada to know that we will always stand up for your right to choose." / Twitter

President of France, posting in English:
Emmanuel Macron on Twitter: "Abortion is a fundamental right for all women. It must be protected. I wish to express my solidarity with the women whose liberties are being undermined by the Supreme Court of the United States." / Twitter

UN Human Rights chief Michelle Bachelet said that the ruling “a huge blow to women’s rights and gender equality.” and “Access to safe, legal and effective abortion is firmly rooted in international human right law and is at the core of women and girls’ autonomy and ability to make their own choices about their bodies and lives, free of discrimination, violence and coercion.”

Prime Minister of the UK, Boris Johnson: the decision was a “big step backward.” and that “clearly it has massive impacts on people’s thinking around the world. It’s a very important decision.” “I’ve always believed in a woman’s right to choose, and I stick to that view. and that’s why the U.K. has the laws that it does.”

Prime Minister of Denmark, Mette Frederiksen, wrote that her “heart cries for girls and women in the United States”, calling the decision “a huge setback.” “We must never compromise on women’s unrestricted right to decide over their own bodies and futures.”

Prime Minister of Spain, Pedro Sánchez: “We cannot take any rights for granted. Social achievements are always at risk of going backwards and their defense has to be our day to day. Women must be able to decide freely about their lives.”

everal countries have liberalized restrictive abortion laws in recent years, through either legislation, court rulings or administrative action, including Ireland in 2018, Northern Ireland in 2019, Argentina in 2020, Mexico last year and Colombia this year. Hours before the U.S. Supreme Court ruling was released on Friday, Germany’s Parliament repealed a law that, while often ignored, had long prohibited doctors from advertising abortion services, effectively making it a crime to provide public information on the procedure and how to get one.

On the other side,

While Pope Francis, who has an active Twitter account, did not immediately post a response or issue a statement, Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, the president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, praised the ruling.

“In the face of Western society that is losing its passion for life, this act is a powerful invitation to reflect together on the serious and urgent issue of human generativity and the conditions that make it possible,” he said in a statement. “By choosing life, our responsibility for the future of humanity is at stake.”

South of the Rio Grande,

In Mexico, where the Supreme Court decriminalized abortion last September, activists watching the mounting restrictions in the United States have been preparing for months to help American women obtain the procedure. They plan to send pills across the border that induce abortions, and help Americans cross in the other direction to clinics in Mexico.

 

[lpetrich]

No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen on Twitter: "NEW: California Governor Gavin Newsom (D) just signed a bill making California a safe haven for women nationwide seeking abortion care. “We will not cooperate with any states that attempt to prosecute women or doctors,” he says." / Twitter

Brandon Richards on Twitter: "TODAY: @CAGovernor signed #AB1666 into law—protecting providers, patients & people supporting either.
REMINDER: #CALeg currently working on:
—14 MORE bills to protect/expand abortion access
—$200 million in budget $$
—Constitutional amendment protecting abortion & contraception (pic link)" / Twitter


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Overturning Roe and outlawing abortions will never make them go away.
It only makes them more dangerous, especially for the poor + marginalized.
People will die because of this decision. And we will never stop until abortion rights are restored in the United States of America." / Twitter

Noticias Telemundo on Twitter: "Activistas a favor del derecho al aborto protegen a la congresista @AOC para evitar que se acerquen a ella quienes celebran la decisión de la Corte Suprema.
@javiervegau reporta desde la capital. (vid link)" / Twitter

Activists in favor of the right to abortion protect the congresswoman @AOC to prevent those who celebrate the decision of the Supreme Court from approaching her.

@javiervegau reports from the capital.

then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "
“El patriarcado es un juez
Que nos juzga por nacer
Y nuestro castigo
Es la violencia que no ves.”
Gracias a todes por su solidaridad. Estamos en esta lucha juntes, con la inspiración de nuestras vecines Latines y en todo el mundo " / Twitter

“Patriarchy is a judge
Who judges us for being born
and our punishment
It's the violence you don't see."

Thank you all for your solidarity. We are in this fight together, with the inspiration of our Latin neighbors and around the world

derecka on Twitter: "If this was about babies, there would be universal healthcare. Free education. Free daycare. Southern states would be doing all they can to drop the Black maternal mortality rate. This is about power and control" / Twitter

 

[Derec]

Elsewhere in the world, "In London, protesters gathered outside the US embassy holding signs and chanting. Demonstrations also took place in Edinburgh, the Independent reported, while sympathy protests were also reported in Berlin."

They don't have any of their own problems to worry about?

 

[Derec]

It doesn't matter what they say. All that matters is the fire the Dems light under the base, or we are extraordinarily fucked. Turnout, turnout, turnout.

Why just the base? It should be about persuading the independents, and even trying to cleave off some Republican voters.
But they will probably be turned off by Dems moving too far to the left in recent years. Which is why this leftward lurch by the Dems (including Biden) is so dangerous.

If Republicans capture the House (which was predicted before RvW ruling), and even more if they capture the Senate (which was not), despite an unpopular ruling on RvW, it will be because Dems sabotaged themselves. Many people who are in favor of RvW will nevertheless vote R because they are afraid of the S word.

 

[Derec]

Say the very same people who swore over their mother's graves that Roe would not be overturned in our lifetimes.

This ruling changes nothing about the legality of abortion in states with no anti-abortion laws.

You'd have to be a true idiot to imagine that the legislators won't at least be trying to institute a national ban on abortions,

Maybe they will try, but I doubt they will succeed.

or at least national harassment of abortion providers,

What do you mean by that?

And this Court has signaled that it is willing to overturn almost any precedent on moral grounds.

Perhaps. Yes, this decision is extreme and overturns a 50 year precedent. But that does not mean that Griswold or Obergefell will be next.
I do hope racial preferences are next. They are blatantly unconstitutional and need to go.

I do hope these conservative fuckers remember, the next time we have a left-leaning Court, that they were the ones to destroy judicial precedent. They never stop to think whether the anti-democratic policies they promote could be turned against them at some future date...

You are definitely right on that. A future left-wing dominated court will make similarly bone-headed extreme decisions just like the Roberts court is doing.
I am an independent and detest extremists on both sides. From my perspective, so-called "liberal" justices weren't any good either. No respect for equal protection under the law (e.g. racial preferences which are blatantly unconstitutional but still have been upheld for decades) or property rights (Kelo vs. New London). Not to mention that under the logic behind Lawrence and Roe, prohibitions on consensual sex work should have been declared unconstitutional as well.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Now is the time to organize. New York is a legal abortion state, but people will need help getting here.
We have compiled a direct multi-abortion fund link to help people seek the medical care they need.
% goes to them & covers regions across the US
(link)" / Twitter
For donations to several abortion-defender groups.

CSPAN on Twitter: "Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY): "Every single one of us has woken up today with less rights than we had yesterday." @AOC (vid link)" / Twitter
A speech on the House floor.

"Do they believe in universal childcare? Do they believe in life after birth?" She concludes that "the evidence is lacking." She asked her Senate colleagues to consider going ahead with codifying RvW into law, as the House has done. She then refers to those Senators who were deceived by some of the Supreme Court appointees. After noting such anti-democratic features as House gerrymandering and Senate minority rule, she said "We will not stop fighting until this is fixed", which she addressed to Congressional Republicans.

Indivisible Guide on Twitter: ""I think it’s important for us to also tackle this myth that this is...about babies or children or life. Because the same individuals who claim to be protecting life fight against universal healthcare. Do they believe in universal childcare? Do they believe in life after birth?"" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "FYI: When they tell you to “vote harder” that should also apply to primary elections, too.
The party needs to change and that’s not going to happen on its own." / Twitter
I agree. That's how she got into office, with a primary victory. That's also how the rest of The Squad got into office, by winning primaries, and also most Squad-adjacent politicians, with the exception of Katie Porter.

 

[lpetrich]

It doesn't matter what they say. All that matters is the fire the Dems light under the base, or we are extraordinarily fucked. Turnout, turnout, turnout.

Why just the base?

It's a lot of voters, and it's a strategy that Republicans have used very well. AOC herself found that she won her first victory by getting votes from people who don't usually vote, instead of people who'd otherwise love Joe Crowley.

It should be about persuading the independents, and even trying to cleave off some Republican voters.

A failing strategy. Being Republican lite turns off the Democratic base. Also, Republicans don't do that.

But they will probably be turned off by Dems moving too far to the left in recent years. Which is why this leftward lurch by the Dems (including Biden) is so dangerous.

Define "too far to the left". AOC found out recently that a lot of people are turned off from the Democratic Party for failing to deliver Build Back Better, continuing child tax credits, etc. That the party doesn't do more instead of the party doing too much.

 

[Derec]

What generation were you referring to, certainly not one that includes Donald J Trump!

Nobody was referring to the Donald as the most experienced candidate ever though.

Trump has never won a popular election.
Not ever!

Actually he did win the election. Based on the rules of said election. Rather than a metric that is irrelevant to the election. It's like saying that team X did not win the NBA finals because Y scored more aggregate points over the entire series as a result of them running up the score in game 2.

He is the first one term president to get in office since 1988.

Still beats a zero term president.

I'm not sure what you mean by "overrated".

Overrated does not mean that she was not qualified or experienced per se. But she was definitely overhyped.
Articles like these is what I had in mind:
Obama says Clinton is the most qualified presidential candidate ever
Weld ‘not sure anybody is more qualified than Hillary Clinton’ to be president
Hillary Most Experienced Presidential Candidate In US History: Expert
They laid in on way too thick. She wasn't even the most qualified/experienced candidate running in the 2016 field, much less ever.

Hillary won a Senate seat representing Trump in 2000.

She won a Senate seat in a safe Dem state?

She got the most votes in the presidential election in 2016.

So? First, we do not run presidential elections that way. Maybe we should (and I do think we should) but you play by the rules that are in force, not by the rules you want. Second, she did not win the majority. Even in a popular vote system (e.g. France) there'd be a runoff. Third, you cannot pretend that if we had a popular vote that the vote counts would be the same. No, they would be very different as both camps would run a completely different strategy in a different .

Ok, maybe Hillary's strategy would not be that different, as her EC strategy sucked. Her blunder (one of them at least) was to not focus on electoral map enough. She and her team ignored midwestern states she ended up losing. No amount of running up the score in California will compensate for that.

Seriously, if you think she's the most overrated politician in a generation, where does that put Donald J Trump?

As the guy who beat Hillary after most pundits had written him off. Say what you will about Donald Trump the president (and you could say a lot of valid things), he did far better than expected when it came to running for office.

Biggest Loser in U.S. politics in a generation?

After Hillary you mean?

Never won an election when the American voters could express their opinions?

Why do you think "American voters" could not express their opinions in 2016? Was the First Amendment suspended for a year without me noticing?

Most corrupt politician, best at cadging support from our enemies like Vladimir Putin? Least inclined to support U.S. interests?

If he was so beholden to Putin, why didn't he shut down pipelines like DAPL or do something against fracking? Increased US production has been cutting into Russian profits for years.

Exactly what makes Clinton overrated, compared to other politicians like Trump?

Asked and answered. We are getting into the weeds though.

 

[Derec]

Hillary beat Sanders. Easily.

Easy to do when the DNC is in your corner, but how is that even responsive to what I wrote? Tom's point was that Bernie's challenge damaged Hillary.
My point is that if she was made of sterner stuff, she would be strengthened by the challenge, not weakened.
Obama and Hillary had a knock-down, drag-out primary in 2008. And Obama was a better general election candidate for it.
Not so with Hillary after Bernie.

 

[Derec]

She didn't have to let him do so,

Are you saying Hillary (and her cronies at the DNC) could have just banned Bernie (and presumably Obama in 2008) from challenging the chosen one?

 

[Derec]

Absence of the dangly bits.

You could have just said “Yes, I will”.
We didn’t need a fresh demonstration.

In other words, don't ever criticize a woman, or you are a "sexist". Or challenge her for nomination that is by divine providence her due, I guess.

 

[Derec]

She never said that. Your quote is bullshit.

It's not meant to be a direct quote but a summary of her 2016 candidacy.

Remember when Madeline Albright, one of her campaign surrogates, suggested that there was "a special place in hell" for women who did not support Hillary?

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on Twitter: "AOC just launched an insurrection.
Any violence and rioting is a direct result of Democrat marching orders.
(vid link)" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I will explain this to you slowly: exercising our right to protest is not obstruction of Congress nor an attempt to overturn democracy.
If one were a heinous enough person to do that, they’d likely seek a pardon for it too.
But only one of us here has done that. And it ain’t me
(pic link)" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Universal healthcare and childcare. Gun safety. Combating climate change.
The GOP opposes it all. If they refuse to support life after birth, how can they claim to believe in it before?
Truth is, this is not about life and never has been. It’s about seizing power and control." / Twitter
referring to her House-floor speech.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "We should hear from Senators Murkowski, Collins, and Manchin if they believe there should be any consequences at all for misleading members of the US Senate in order to secure a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land.
Otherwise Roe’s undoing is their legacy too." / Twitter
Good point. They claim that Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh stabbed the in the back about RvW. So let's see them act as if they were stabbed in the back.


Anna Merlan on Twitter: "If a pro-life politician crowing about today’s decision ever paid for your abortion and it feels like the right time to talk about it, my email is Anna.merlan@vice.com" / Twitter
then
Anna Merlan on Twitter: "In general, I want to emphasize that you are legally allowed to speak truthfully about your own experience and experienced reporters can work with you to protect your privacy and safety if that is a concern" / Twitter
then
Anna Merlan on Twitter: "I think this speaks for itself but… “pro-life”" / Twitter

Like  Scott DesJarlais an anti-abortion politician who once pressured a mistress to get an abortion.

 

[Derec]

It's a lot of voters, and it's a strategy that Republicans have used very well.

And that gave us more extreme politicians pushing extremist policies disconnected from the majority of the voters.
The answer to that is not the same but from the other extreme.

AOC herself found that she won her first victory by getting votes from people who don't usually vote, instead of people who'd otherwise love Joe Crowley.

She won a minuscule amount of votes in a very low-turnout election. Her victory eliminated a promising leadership candidate and damaged the Democratic Party.
AOC's hostile takeover of NY14 is a good demonstration of why partisan primaries are a bad idea, especially in safe districts - they tend to elevate extremists not aligned to the majority of the voters.

A failing strategy. Being Republican lite turns off the Democratic base. Also, Republicans don't do that.

On the contrary, if we want to benefit the country, and not just have partisan victories out of sheer "will to power", then that is the only viable strategy. Focusing solely on the rabid base will lead to more polarization. Polarization of the R side gave us the RvW overturn. We do not need more of the same, but from the opposite extremist corner.

Define "too far to the left".

Concrete example taking Bernie's $6T Spendapalooza and passing it off as "Biden agenda" with only minor trimming (The $1.2T BIF and $3.5T B³ = $4.7T). On a more conceptual level, the general embrace of socialism by so many Dems. Then comes the "defund/abolish police", fauxgressive DAs not prosecuting crime etc.
Example Gascon: Mother of Slain El Monte Officer Blames DA Gascón for Son's Death

AOC found out recently that a lot of people are turned off from the Democratic Party for failing to deliver Build Back Better, continuing child tax credits, etc. That the party doesn't do more instead of the party doing too much.

How does that compare to the number of people turned off by, for example, high inflation that would be even higher if more trillions were thrown into the already inflationary economy? In addition to trillions of B³ spending (which, btw. also includes tax cuts for Blue State rich), AOC et al also demand taxpayers pay for student loans for rich doctors, lawyers as well as people who went to fancy private $50k/a tuition universities - like AOC herself.

 

[lpetrich]

VICE News on Twitter: ""They will wake up with less rights and they don't know it yet."
@elizlanders talked to @aoc about the consequences of overturning Roe v. Wade for other rights such as gay marriage and contraception. (vid link)" / Twitter
"Into the streets!"

After noting that Texas's anti-sodomy law was overturned using the right of privacy established in Roe, AOC continued

In overturning Roe, we are overturning the right to privacy established by Roe. And that will have knock-on effects... for people even regardless of their views on abortion. They will wake up with less rights and they don't know it yet.

We are here for a reason. You were born in this space and at this time for a reason. You were born for... because we are the restorers! We were born here to be protectors. We were born (difficult to make out) to make a better future and turn this ship around.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Voting is critical but alone it’s not enough. We will need to organize, strike, fill coffers of abortion funds, open our homes to help those seeking safe passage, and more to establish and defend our rights.

People have more power than they realize. It’s time we rediscover it." / Twitter
She has the right idea. The most recent three liberal periods had a lot of activism in them: the Progressive Era, the New Deal Era, and the Sixties Era. Before that, the Civil War was preceded by lots of antislavery activism.

Noting her earlier tweet about abortion-defense activism,
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Thank you EVERYONE. We are at $150k in direct contributions to grassroots abortion funds in just 5 hours" / Twitter

Farnoush Amiri on Twitter: "Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., on the Justices on the Supreme Court: (pic link)" / Twitter

"You have six justices, five of them who are appointed by Republican presidents who didn't win a majority of votes in the country. You have two of them who face credible sexual assault accusations. One of them is married to a woman who actively participated in activities to overthrow the US government and they're telling women they no longer have the right to choose?" He said. "I mean, give me a goddamn break."

 

[lpetrich]

It's a lot of voters, and it's a strategy that Republicans have used very well.

And that gave us more extreme politicians pushing extremist policies disconnected from the majority of the voters.

What are you going to do about that?

The answer to that is not the same but from the other extreme.

Do you have any better ideas? Bill Clinton and Barack Obama have done what you seem to have in mind, without much effect.

AOC herself found that she won her first victory by getting votes from people who don't usually vote, instead of people who'd otherwise love Joe Crowley.

She won a minuscule amount of votes in a very low-turnout election.

What would you consider high turnout? Are you implying that NY-14 was a district full of Crowleyites who inexplicably refused to turn out to vote for their hero?

Her victory eliminated a promising leadership candidate and damaged the Democratic Party.

Promising leadership candidate??? Damage to the Democratic Party???

Define "too far to the left".

Concrete example taking Bernie's $6T Spendapalooza and passing it off as "Biden agenda" with only minor trimming (The $1.2 BIF and $3.5T B³ = $4.7T). On a more conceptual level, the general embrace of socialism by so many Dems. ...

Define "socialism".

AOC found out recently that a lot of people are turned off from the Democratic Party for failing to deliver Build Back Better, continuing child tax credits, etc. That the party doesn't do more instead of the party doing too much.

How does that compare to people turned off by, for example, high inflation that would be even higher if more trillions were thrown into the already inflationary economy. In addition to trillions of B³ spending

While price gouging is OK? Massive spending on Wall Street bailouts is OK? Big military spending is OK?

(which, btw. also includes tax cuts for Blue State rich),

Like what? Right-wingers agreeing with AOC on taxing the rich is such a sight to see.

AOC et al also demand taxpayers pay for student loans for rich doctors, lawyers as well as people who went to fancy private $50k/a tuition universities - like AOC herself.

Pseudo-left-wing posturing. Most people with lots of student-loan debt are *not* very rich.

 

[Toni]

Hillary beat Sanders. Easily.

Easy to do when the DNC is in your corner, but how is that even responsive to what I wrote? Tom's point was that Bernie's challenge damaged Hillary.
My point is that if she was made of sterner stuff, she would be strengthened by the challenge, not weakened.
Obama and Hillary had a knock-down, drag-out primary in 2008. And Obama was a better general election candidate for it.
Not so with Hillary after Bernie.

Why wouldn't the DNC support an actual member of the party rather than someone who joined only when it was convenient?

Obama narrowly beat Clinton in the 2008 primaries.
Clinton handily beat Sanders in the 2016 primaries.

Sanders did siphon votes away from Clinton in the 2016 POTUS gen election even after he urged voters to vote for Clinton. Bernie bros are still hanging out and about, ready to pounce like tiny little kittens on anyone whoever speaks a word against Sanders. Misogynist bunch.

 

[lpetrich]

Team AOC on Instagram: “@aoc addressed the crowd at an abortion rights rally in NYC”
She described how she once worked near where she was speaking, and how nearby there was a free family health center. She talked about helping friends get abortions after being sexually assaulted, and when she was 22 - 23 years old, she herself was raped. She was completely alone and she had to take a pregnancy test in a public bathroom in downtown Manhattan. She thought to herself that at least she has a choice of abortion, and she was relieved to discover that she was not pregnant.

She then talked about being an activist, and she said that there are things that President Biden could do, like build abortion clinics on Federal lands. I find that an ingenious idea, using Federal sovereignty as a way of getting around state laws.

-

I looked at AOC's fellow progressives and I didn't see anything like how Republicans and Kyrsten Sinema passed around "horrified and heartbroken".

Ayanna Pressley on Twitter: "This is a matter of life & death.
The Supreme Court has once again obstructed the will of the people and we must use every tool available to protect our reproductive rights & freedom. (vid link)" / Twitter

Rashida Tlaib on Twitter: "Abortions are still legal in Michigan. We must fight for every person to control their bodies. We won't stop fighting. I will see you in the streets." / Twitter


Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "Roe v. Wade is a privacy case, a bodily autonomy case & it’s ultimately about the right to make our own decisions about our uteruses.
Today, the Supreme Court ruled a person w/ a uterus needs government controlling their decisions and should be treated as less than a full human." / Twitter

Andrew Leyden on Twitter: "Cong. Ilhan Omar speaks about the Dobbs decision at the Supreme Court. (vid link)" / Twitter

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "This isn’t it. We’re going to stand up. (vid link)" / Twitter
She described her daughter texting her "Mom, is this it? Is there nothing that can be done?" Presumably the end of abortion rights. IO then continued about how abortion was outlawed in several states and may be outlawed in others, including all 50 if we don't do anything about that. But that we can avoid that fate by becoming abortion defenders.

Progressive Caucus on Twitter: "
“If you don’t want to go back, you have to fight.
If you don’t want a ban on contraception,
If you don’t want a ban on same-sex marriage,
If you don’t want our trans kids criminalized, you have to fight.
We’re going to hold each other up, and we’re going to fight.” -Whip @ilhan
(pic link)" / Twitter

WCCO - CBS Minnesota on Twitter: "Rep. Ilhan Omar says she's outraged by the decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.
She said the decision will fall hardest on those who are most vulnerable, "victims of incest, who have been raped, who are...struggling to put food on the table."
MORE: (links)" / Twitter
noting
"How dare they?": Minnesota leaders react to abortion ruling

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "The reversal of Roe..." / Twitter

The reversal of Roe will be recorded in the history books in the same nauseous tones as decisions like Dred Scott, Korematsu, Plessy, and Buck.

This is an institution that has legitimized slavery, concentration camps, and eugenics.

This decision is the same.

We claim to live in a democracy. A form of government that does not just do the will of the people, but protects the rights of the people.

There are times we have lived up to our ideals.

And there are many, many times where we haven’t. Like this.

How can a society function when the ultimate word on the rights of citizens - the rights of Blacks to be free from bondage and later to vote as equals, or of Japanese Americans to not be herded into camps, or the rights of women to not be forced to give birth…

Are decided by 9 unelected lawyers, serving decade after decade with as much a political agenda as my most partisan colleagues in the House?

Because make no mistake: SCOTUS is as much a political body as the House or Senate.

We just pretend it’s above all that.

Like every case I’ve named before, overturning Roe proves it’s not. The Court’s majority is serving its purpose.

Minnesotans, we are lucky we have Tim Walz and Keith Ellison in office to protect our rights at home.

If Republicans win in November, MN will look a lot like Texas.

As we fight to make abortion legal at the federal level, I continue to reject the legitimacy of such an undemocratic institution.

Expand the court.

 

[lpetrich]

Cori Bush on Twitter: "Abortion care IS health care. It was so before this. And it will remain so after this.
We don’t care what a far-right extremist Supreme Court that is in a crisis of legitimacy says. Your racist, sexist, classist ruling won’t stop us from accessing the care we need." / Twitter

Cori Bush on Twitter: "We dissent." / Twitter
noting
Taniel on Twitter: "The final paragraph ..." / Twitter

The final paragraph of the three liberals' Dobbs dissent:

"With sorrow—for this Court, but more, for the many millions of American women who have today lost a fundamental constitutional protection—we dissent. "

The 3 dissenters warn that more is coming. They write that the conservatives' approach in the Dobbs ruling "places in jeopardy other rights, from contraception to same-sex intimacy and marriage."

The dissent: The majority is "acting at practically the first moment possible", "eliminates a 50-year-old contitutional right that safeuards women's freedom," "breaches a core rule-of-law principle," "places in jeopardy other rights," and "undermines the Court's legitimacy."

Cori Bush on Twitter: "The far-right court overturned Roe as I hosted Secretary Becerra for an abortion round table at the same St. Louis clinic where I received my abortion at 18. I felt lonely and scared then. I do not feel alone or scared now.
We won’t stop until abortion care is legal everywhere." / Twitter

Cori Bush on Twitter: "Forced birth will not stand.
As long as abortion care is legal we’re going to make sure you have the access you need. Call your local abortion provider. Call my office and we’ll point you in the right direction.
Because you still have access to abortion care. (vid link)" / Twitter
From Joy-Ann Reid interviewing CB as she was at a rally and wearing a T-shirt that says "ABORTION CARE IS HEALTH CARE"

She hoped that the thought of a teenage girl getting pregnant from being raped would nag on the consciences of anti-abortion politicians, but that may be overoptimistic.

 

[lpetrich]

Marie Newman on Twitter: "I’m mad as hell, but we can’t give up. We need more women in power who will fight to protect reproductive rights. (vid link)" / Twitter

Marie Newman on Twitter: "It’s not just abortion.
They are coming for same-sex marriages. Birth control. And so much more.
Fight like hell. We need more women with the lived experience in Congress. I won’t let the next generation have fewer rights than I had." / Twitter

Congressman Jamaal Bowman on Twitter: "Today is a dark day in American history. We knew it was coming, but that doesn’t make it any less devastating." / Twitter
Then continuing with a long Twitter thread about the revocation of RvW.

Senator Tina Smith on Twitter: "There was no doubt in my mind when I voted against Kavanaugh and Barrett that they were both going to overturn Roe. It was obvious." / Twitter

Rep. Mondaire Jones on Twitter: "We won’t go back.
Expand the Supreme Court. (pic link)" / Twitter
Showing MJ at a rally with a sign with 5 repetitions of "ABORTION IS ESSENTIAL" and with @PROCHOICECAUCUS

MJ had proposed a solution: packing the Court.
Mondaire Jones on Twitter: "In April 2021, my colleagues and I introduced the Judiciary Act to add four seats to SCOTUS.

Many of my colleagues scoffed, but the American people are on our side.

If we had passed our bill, the right to an abortion would exist today. Tell your Representative to cosponsor it." / Twitter
FDR had proposed packing the Supreme Court when it struck down too much of his New Deal legislation. Though the packing itself was a failure, the Court stopped striking down New Deal stuff.

Dan Schuering on Twitter: "@MondaireJones @joncoopertweets I’m a lawyer. I hated this idea. The last 2 days have changed my mind. The law must be stable, consistent & predictable. Right now, it is none of these. 1 Justice per Circuit makes sense. The damage to the law will take 50 years to fix. Might as well start by fixing the Court." / Twitter

 

[marc]

Sanders beat her in the presidential election. He made sure that enough Democratic voters considered her terrible that Trump won the White

Cut this bullshit. More Sanders voters voted for Hillary than Hillary voters voted for Obama when she lost the primary. Sanders did 35 campaign rallies to get people to vote for Hillary. He in no way made people consider her a terrible candidate. 25 years of republican smears of her, and her own pro-corporate politics-as-usual made her terrible in some people's eyes.

 

[marc]

Truck driver plows through pro-choice protesters. So much for being pro-life

 

[Ford]

I was listening to NPR this afternoon, and they had a former Mississippi governor on to provide the opposing view. This case was from that state.

The host asked him what about the women who for whatever reason simply want to choose when and how they have children, and he said "those women need to get down on their knees....and pray." The pause was telling. He went on about praying to God, how people just need to learn to be responsible, and basically....if you didn't want a baby you shouldn't have had sex, you sinful tramp. He also talked about how men...need to be there for the children once they're born. No mention of men being responsible. No, that's the woman's job.

It was the whole Gilead thing wrapped up with a bow and a southern accent. They didn't discuss rape, but I suspect he'd have blamed women for that, too, and gosh darn it the rapist is a father now, too, and needs to be in that child's life!

Then of course all the "this is an issue for the states to decide waited at least an hour after the ruling to call for a nationwide ban on abortion. So depressing.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Sanders beat her in the presidential election. He made sure that enough Democratic voters considered her terrible that Trump won the White

Cut this bullshit. More Sanders voters voted for Hillary than Hillary voters voted for Obama when she lost the primary. Sanders did 35 campaign rallies to get people to vote for Hillary. He in no way made people consider her a terrible candidate. 25 years of republican smears of her, and her own pro-corporate politics-as-usual made her terrible in some people's eyes.

I'd like to see a link supporting your assertion that more sanders voters voted for Hillary than Hilary voters voted for Obama. I actually do think that Sanders adequately supported H. He fought for her at the end. I don't blame him in the least for fighting as hard as he did before the primary. And when he lost (and he did lose) he did fight for H. However, the meme that H and Gore and other main stream dems are really just "pro-corporate politics as usual" is destroying the democratic party. It's split the democratic party enough to allow the republicans to win election after election despite having fewer numbers.

 

[Rhea]

Remember when Madeline Albright, one of her campaign surrogates, suggested that there was "a special place in hell" for women who did not support Hillary?

Looks like they are in it, now, doesn’t it?

 

[ZiprHead]

Kavanaugh Gave Private Assurances on Roe v. Wade. Collins Says He ‘Misled’ Her. - The New York Times

“Start with my record, my respect for precedent, my belief that it is rooted in the Constitution, and my commitment and its importance to the rule of law,” he said, according to contemporaneous notes kept by multiple staff members in the meeting. “I understand precedent and I understand the importance of overturning it.”

“Roe is 45 years old, it has been reaffirmed many times, lots of people care about it a great deal, and I’ve tried to demonstrate I understand real-world consequences,” he continued, according to the notes, adding: “I am a don’t-rock-the-boat kind of judge. I believe in stability and in the Team of Nine.”

Persuaded, Ms. Collins, a Republican, gave a detailed speech a few weeks later laying out her rationale for backing the future justice that cited his stated commitment to precedent on Roe, helping clinch his confirmation after a bitter fight. On Friday, Justice Kavanaugh joined the majority in overturning the decision he told Ms. Collins he would protect.

Sen. SC said that she was "misled" and Sen. Joe Manchin expressed similar sentiments.

“I trusted Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh when they testified under oath that they also believed Roe v. Wade was settled legal precedent and I am alarmed they chose to reject the stability the ruling has provided for two generations of Americans,” said Mr. Manchin, who himself is anti-abortion.

 

[ZiprHead]

Listening to Thom Hartmann yesterday. A caller suggested that federal aid to anti-abortion states be cut off.

 

[Jarhyn]

Listening to Thom Hartmann yesterday. A caller suggested that federal aid to anti-abortion states be cut off.

Can the federal government revoke statehood?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Remember when Madeline Albright, one of her campaign surrogates, suggested that there was "a special place in hell" for women who did not support Hillary?

Looks like they are in it, now, doesn’t it?

That's a great line Rhea! But I would add that we're all (Americans) going to be in hell. Electing Trump in 2016 has really torn up our country.

 

[Rhea]

I'd like to see a link supporting your assertion that more sanders voters voted for Hillary than Hilary voters voted for Obama.

I don’t have a link, but I recall researching that previously. If you look at raw numbers, it’s a true statement. Not sure if it’s still true by percent.

But regardless, in my opinion, BOTH of those groups of spite voters acted against their own claimed interest and instead for the very tribalism that makes the GOP so wrong.

The Democratic party *is* a party of many differing views. Because it embraces tolerance of differences. It will obviously include people who disagree with each other on some goals.

These spite voters choose to throw away ALL their goals if they are asked to compromise and collaborate. These spite voters want to win every item o their platform or they will self-righteously throw away any.

They were all wrong, but the consequences of the Sanders spite voters have been more destructive.

I actually do think that Sanders adequately supported H. He fought for her at the end.

Not enough to convince his spite voters to vote for Bernie’s platform in the Democratic party, though.

I don't blame him in the least for fighting as hard as he did before the primary.

I blame him for including in his fight the undermining of the integrity of the election. He made statements that claimed the election was illegitimate. That was something he could not turn back at the end of the primary. It made lasting damage to his own ideals. It was stupid and destructive To his own goals.

And when he lost (and he did lose) he did fight for H. However, the meme that H and Gore and other main stream dems are really just "pro-corporate politics as usual" is destroying the democratic party.

He bolstered that meme. That is something I blame him for.

He ran as a Dem because he wanted the “pro-corporate politics as usual” to work for him. He always hd the option of running in his own party, always. But he knew that he had to court the coalition that the Dem party had built, which includes some corporatists. He KNEW THIS and decided to run as a Democrat so he could be a part of it.

Then he made statements to damage it - and the Republicans won.

It's split the democratic party enough to allow the republicans to win election after election despite having fewer numbers.

Yes. The people who don’t want the government to be a coalition of diverse thoughts and beliefs. The people who want a purity test. The people who are intolerant of others and will not vote for someone who is partly good - instead taking actions to see people who are mostly bad in office to “show us all.” Nader specifically said this in 2000. That having Bush win was a victory “wake up call” that would prove him right. He sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives in the Gulf War to his “you’ll wish you’d heeded me.” His gleeful statement that this anarchy would be cleansing was wrong, so very very wrrong.

Sanders’ main goals were added to the Dem platform. But his political skills were not up to the task of getting it to happen. He did not rally enough voters, instead setting the stage for, and letting them do, exactly the thing they railed against Hilary’s 2008 voters for doing.

 

[Metaphor]

Kavanaugh Gave Private Assurances on Roe v. Wade. Collins Says He ‘Misled’ Her. - The New York Times

“Start with my record, my respect for precedent, my belief that it is rooted in the Constitution, and my commitment and its importance to the rule of law,” he said, according to contemporaneous notes kept by multiple staff members in the meeting. “I understand precedent and I understand the importance of overturning it.”

“Roe is 45 years old, it has been reaffirmed many times, lots of people care about it a great deal, and I’ve tried to demonstrate I understand real-world consequences,” he continued, according to the notes, adding: “I am a don’t-rock-the-boat kind of judge. I believe in stability and in the Team of Nine.”

Persuaded, Ms. Collins, a Republican, gave a detailed speech a few weeks later laying out her rationale for backing the future justice that cited his stated commitment to precedent on Roe, helping clinch his confirmation after a bitter fight. On Friday, Justice Kavanaugh joined the majority in overturning the decision he told Ms. Collins he would protect.

I don't hear Kavanaugh saying he would protect it. In fact, I see a politician-worthy response that says everything but "I will not overturn Roe v Wade".

Sen. SC said that she was "misled" and Sen. Joe Manchin expressed similar sentiments.

“I trusted Justice Gorsuch and Justice Kavanaugh when they testified under oath that they also believed Roe v. Wade was settled legal precedent and I am alarmed they chose to reject the stability the ruling has provided for two generations of Americans,” said Mr. Manchin, who himself is anti-abortion.

I have some trouble understanding what 'settled legal precedent' is supposed to mean. It seems it actually does not mean any one thing. It seems to me that I would say that Roe v Wade was 'settled legal precedent' and I would also say settled legal precedent can be wrong. Certainly the Supreme Court respects precedent, but it isn't forever bound by its earlier decisions. If it were, nothing could ever be overturned.

 

[ZiprHead]

I found this from someone who posted it six years ago:

While we are busy fending off allegations of being "scary nasty mentally damaged totalitarian fundamentalist atheists" hurled at us by Concern Trolls, this stuff is going on:

Vision America's Rick Scarborough was a guest on Gordon Klingenschmitt's "Pray In Jesus Name" program recently, where he explained that God is blessing the state of Texas because "Christians have infiltrated" and taken over the state GOP. Scarborough was discussing his efforts to mobilize right-wing pastors to get involved in politics across the nation and noting that he has had a great deal of success in Texas; so much so that if one now attends an annual Republican Party convention in Texas, it feels as if one is attending a revival meeting.

It is not astrologists nor atheists who are trying to enforce their world view wherever they can.

It is not astrologists nor atheists who are insidiously trying to dominate the "seven mountains of power" and take over the country.

While we argue on forums whether it is insane to debate theists on internet forums, theists are pressing on quietly with their strategic plans.

From Here

The George Grant quote cited below comes from a book he published in 1987 with Dominion Press, entitled The Changing of the Guard. Yes, they have been aiming for this for a very long time. And for a very long time they have worked under the cover of our ignorance. Who could have predicted a few nut cases could ever acquire such influence in our politics and our military? (No apologies to Condoleeza Rice).

"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ-to have dominion in the civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion that we are after. Not just a voice.

It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.

It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.

It is dominion we are after.

World conquest. That’s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.

If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, as the Bible says, and if our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship, as the Bible says, then all our activities, all our witnessing, all our preaching, all our craftsmanship, all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose.

Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land – of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations."

 

[Toni]

Sanders beat her in the presidential election. He made sure that enough Democratic voters considered her terrible that Trump won the White

Cut this bullshit. More Sanders voters voted for Hillary than Hillary voters voted for Obama when she lost the primary. Sanders did 35 campaign rallies to get people to vote for Hillary. He in no way made people consider her a terrible candidate. 25 years of republican smears of her, and her own pro-corporate politics-as-usual made her terrible in some people's eyes.

I agree that some women who might have voted Republican voted for Clinton because she's a woman. I also am certain that a fair number of Sanders' voters did not vote for Clinton for the exact same reason. Yes, Sanders eventually came out and campaigned for her. But his bros campaigned very hard against her and still show up whenever anything slightly negative about Saint Sanders is mentioned and to denigrate female candidates. In the 2016 general election, there certainly were people who could not bring themselves to vote for a woman and so they voted for a misogynist racist traitorous scumbag instead.

And--I know this because I know some of these people--some of Hillary voters were Hillary voters in 2008 because they could not bring themselves to vote for a black man, just as some voters cannot bring themselves to vote for a woman.

 

[lpetrich]

Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: " Today, ..." / Twitter

Today, a right-wing Supreme Court overturned the right to abortion established in Roe v. Wade.

As one of the one in four women in this country who has had an abortion — I am outraged. (1/6)

This decision will disproportionately harm Black and Brown women, folks in rural areas, young people, the LGBTQ+ community, women in abusive relationships, and lower income Americans that can’t afford to travel hundreds of miles to seek the care they need in another state. (2/6)

Pregnant people no longer have the personal freedom to make decisions about our own bodies with a doctor or loved one. Instead, those decisions will be made for us by politicians. (3/6)

But let’s also be clear that this Supreme Court and Republicans in Congress aren’t done — same-sex and interracial marriage, LGBTQ+ rights, the right to contraception, and more could very well be next. (4/6)

However, all hope is not lost. House Democrats have already passed legislation to protect many of these rights — but each has been blocked by Senate Republicans.

Now more than ever, we need to reform the filibuster and act on behalf of millions of frustrated Americans. (5/6)

In the meantime, we all must continue to take this righteous anger to the streets and to the voting booths this fall — because this fight is NOT over. (6/6)

Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "This fight is NOT over.
Abortion rights are human rights. We’ll never stop fighting until that’s guaranteed all across America." / Twitter

Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "The House took action to codify Roe and protect abortion rights MONTHS ago.
The ball is the Senate’s court. End the filibuster. Pass the Women’s Health Protection Act.
The Senate needs to meet this moment. Americans are watching." / Twitter

Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "America has the worst Black maternal death rate in the developed world.
My heart is broken thinking about how many lives this decision will endanger, disproportionately Black women’s lives.
Congress can’t stand idly by and watch this happen." / Twitter

Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "1 in 4 women have had an abortion, including me. That number won’t change because of this ruling.
People will STILL get abortions. But so many more of them will be unsafe." / Twitter

 

[ZiprHead]

The Alito decision, with annotations:

The Dobbs v. Jackson Decision, Annotated

New York Times reporters are providing analysis of the landmark Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ZiprHead]

Notable in the above decision is it relies almost fully on historical references to state regulations during a time in our history where women had no right to vote, let alone sit on government seats.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Notable in the above decision is it relies almost fully on historical references to state regulations during a time in our history where women had no right to vote, let alone sit on government seats.

Whoosh!!!!!!!!!!!! Were you able to duck? I think that's the point. Women should be obediently making and raising babies. That's their only purpose.

 

[bilby]

Define "socialism".

This is one of those things you should never say on this discussion board, along with “What is ‘free will’ anyway?”.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Anyone with a functioning brain would have told Collins not to trust them. They are rligious zealotts who would do anything to impose their religious views onto everyone. Fuck her and fuck the 6 assholes on the supreme court. When I was growing up the Supreme Court was the ultimate protecters of what's right. They have become the enemy of all that's good.

I think she just wanted to be "shocked" at their actions, not seen as condoning them. She had to have known what she was voting for.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Would anyone be surprised if there isn't a real attempt to assassinate a SCOTUS judge? The one a couple weeks ago doesn't count.

The ones most likely to assassinate are happy with the situation.

 

[lpetrich]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Here’s how Dems can + must do more than wait for an election. …" / Twitter

Here’s how Dems can + must do more than wait for an election.

Let’s start w/ why:

- 7 of the 9 justices were appointed by a party that hasn’t won a popular vote more than once in 30 years

- 1 of those seats was stolen

- Several lied to Congress to secure their appointment…

- 1 justice’s family (Thomas) was paid by right wing groups for years and he never disclosed it, violating Federal law

- Same justice’s spouse participated in 1/6 and he used his SCOTUS seat to vote to keep potential info related to his wife from investigators in Congress…

- 2 justices stand very credibly accused of sexual assault

And that’s the tip of the iceberg.

Election or not, the Supreme Court has a legitimacy crisis and the public reaffirms it: 75% of the US public reports lacking confidence in SCOTUS, & those numbers were *pre-Roe ruling*

In a legitimacy crisis, the solution Biden + Dem leaders must offer can’t just be one of voting, but of statute & authority.

Compared to Exec + Leg branch, checks on Court overreach and misconduct are little to none. Leaders must share their plans for Roe AND a rogue court.

Past Presidents, from Lincoln to FDR, understood the dangerous stakes of allowing an unchecked Court overreach its authority and threaten our democracy.

Lincoln ignored the court to issue the emancipation proclamation.

FDR, in the plunges of the Great Depression, also sought to confront the Court’s structure (and core gerontocracy problem of lifetime appointments) via public appeal. While he did not succeed, that check came from the ppl & Congress, NOT scotus.

The ruling is Roe, but the crisis is democracy. Leaders must share specific plans for both

The President & Dem leaders can no longer get away with familiar tactics of “committees” and “studies” to avoid tackling our crises head-on anymore:

- Restrain judicial review
- Open clinics on federal lands
- Court expansion
- Expand Fed access/awareness of pill abortions
- etc

For the moments when we DO insist on elections, we must be PRECISE with what we need and we will do with that power:

How many seats does the party need to Codify Roe?

Dems must SAY THAT. Not just “go vote” or “give us $6 to win.” That is demoralizing, losing, unfocused nonsense

Dem leaders must tell voters the plan:

What’s the *actual* need? Which specific seats are we focused on? WHAT votes do we need & WHERE (what states + races?)

And, what’s the return? What is Biden/Congress ACTUALLY willing+able to do at 52/60 seats?

Be honest. Details motivate

So let’s wake up everybody! What’s good Democrats! If you don’t like what I’ve laid out here, then please present YOUR plan instead of little “why we can’t” lists!!

Let’s cut the handwringing and get moving! Chop chop! No more showtunes till November unless it’s for GOTV!!

Yesterday: Team AOC on Instagram: “@aoc addressed the crowd at an abortion rights rally in NYC” and in her YouTube channel AOC with Abortion Rights Organizers in NYC: Full Rally Remarks | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - YouTube

Yes, there is a "Team AOC" of activists and campaigners. It was formed some time in mid-2019, as far as I could tell.