• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Roe v Wade is on deck

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Medical Impact of Roe Reversal Goes Beyond Abortion Clinics, Doctors Say - The New York Times - Sep 10 - "State abortion bans carry narrow but sometimes vague exceptions, and years of prison time. That’s forcing doctors to think like lawyers, and hospitals to create new protocols."
In Wisconsin, a group of doctors and lawyers is trying to come up with guidelines on how to comply with a newly revived 173-year-old law that prohibits abortion except to save the life of a pregnant woman. They face the daunting task of defining all the emergencies and conditions that might result in a pregnant woman’s death, and the fact that doctors could be punished with six years in prison if a prosecutor disagrees that abortion was necessary.

A similar task force at an Arizona hospital recommends having a lawyer on call to help doctors determine whether a woman’s condition threatens her life enough to justify an abortion. Already, the hospital has added questions to its electronic medical forms so they can be used to argue that patients who had abortions would have died without them.

And in Texas, oncologists say they now wait for pregnant women with cancer to get sicker before they treat them, because the standard of care would be to abort the fetus rather than allow treatments that damage it, but a state law allows abortion only “at risk of death.” Some hospitals have established committees to evaluate whether a pregnancy complication is severe enough to justify an abortion.
However,
Some anti-abortion doctors argue that the concerns about not being able to provide lifesaving abortion care are overblown — “blatantly absurd,” as Dr. Christina Francis, the chair of the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said at a congressional hearing in July.

“Not a single state law restricting abortion prevents treating these conditions,” Dr. Francis argued, because they make exceptions for any life-threatening emergency.
But that evades the issue of how sick a patient has to be before she may get an abortion.
Anti-abortion groups contend that life-threatening conditions are rare in pregnancy and can be treated by inducing labor or performing a C-section rather than an abortion. “Even if the baby does not survive,” wrote Dr. Ingrid Skop, an obstetrician and the director of medical affairs at the Charlotte Lozier Institute, an anti-abortion group, “these humane procedures allow a grieving family to show love and say good-bye.”
Seems almost like an abortion with some other name.

In response,
The Biden administration wrote medical providers in July, reminding them that they had to comply with a federal law known as the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act. The law requires emergency rooms to provide stabilizing treatment to any patient who arrives with an emergency condition or in labor, or transfer them to a hospital that can provide it. That, the letter said, meant they “must provide” an abortion, even in states that ban it, if it is required to stabilize a woman’s health.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Justice Neil Gorsuch says he hopes report on Supreme Court leak investigation is coming 'soon' | CNN Politics
“That committee has been busy, and we’re looking forward to their report, I hope soon,” he said.
Let's see if that committee finds anything.

Chief Justice John Roberts defends Supreme Court's legitimacy | CNN Politics
Chief Justice John Roberts – making his first public comments since the US Supreme Court reversed Roe v. Wade last term, triggering demonstrations across the country – defended the legitimacy of the court Friday night while also acknowledging it had been “gut-wrenching” to drive into a barricaded high court every morning.

Roberts, without directly mentioning protests, said that all of the court’s opinions are open to criticism, but he pointedly noted that “simply because people disagree with opinions, is not a basis for questioning the legitimacy of the court.”

He said that it’s the court’s job to interpret the Constitution – a task that should not be left to the political branches or driven by public opinion.
For a conservative, he is unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. Actions like playing Constitutional Calvinball.

Justice Kagan cautions Supreme Court can forfeit legitimacy | AP News
Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan on Monday cautioned that courts look political and forfeit legitimacy when they needlessly overturn precedent and decide more than they have to.
She said that this was not in reference to any particular case.
Still, her remarks were similar to points made in dissenting opinions she wrote or contributed to in recent months, including in the abortion case.

“Judges create legitimacy problems for themselves ... when they instead stray into places where it looks like they’re an extension of the political process or when they’re imposing their own personal preferences,” Kagan said at Temple Emanu-El in New York.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
The nonreligious are overwhelmingly pro-choice
Americans with no religious attachment (self-identified atheists, agnostics, and those with simply no religious preference) identify as pro-choice by a 49-percentage-point margin over pro-life, 68% to 19%. This represents the strongest propensity toward the pro-choice position of any major U.S. demographic (as distinct from political) subgroup.
In U.S., Nonreligious, Postgrads Are Highly "Pro-Choice" - May 29, 2012 - "Men, adults aged 55+ lean pro-life; women and young adults are evenly divided"

On Abortion, Few Americans Take an Absolutist View| Pew Research Center - May 6, 2022 - "A majority of Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, but many are open to restrictions; many opponents of legal abortion say it should be legal in some circumstances"
At the other end of the spectrum, religious “nones”—U.S. adults who describe themselves, religiously, as atheists, agnostics or “nothing in particular”—are most supportive of legal abortion. Among religious “nones,” upwards of eight-in-ten say abortion should be legal in all cases with no exceptions (34%) or that it should be legal in most cases (51%).
That's a total of 85%, going from a 49% margin to a 70% margin.

Author Adam Lee:
As an interesting side note, all the religious groups surveyed were sharply divided on abortion. White evangelicals are mostly opposed, while white mainline Protestants, Black Protestants, and Catholics are mostly supportive; but among each, there are large minorities with the opposite view. (Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus were included in the survey, but there weren’t enough respondents to break those out as distinct subgroups.)
Pew Research again:
Compared with Christians, religiously unaffiliated adults are far more likely to say abortion should be legal overall—and significantly more inclined to say it should be legal in all cases without exception. Within this group, atheists stand out: 97% say abortion should be legal, including 53% who say it should be legal in all cases without exception.
Adam Lee again:
There’s only one answer that makes sense: All the arguments against abortion are religious arguments. There simply is no rational, secular, evidence-based case for banning abortion that holds any water.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
This is a weird twist.
U.S. Supreme Court rebuffs fetal personhood appeal | Reuters
The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to decide whether fetuses are entitled to constitutional rights in light of its June ruling overturning the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that had legalized abortion nationwide, steering clear for now of another front in America's culture wars.

The justices turned away an appeal by a Catholic group and two women of a lower court's ruling against their challenge to a 2019 Rhode Island law that codified the right to abortion in line with the Roe precedent. The two women, pregnant at the time when the case was filed, sued on behalf of their fetuses and later gave birth. The Rhode Island Supreme Court decided that fetuses lacked the proper legal standing to bring the suit.

...
Conservative Justice Samuel Alito wrote in June's ruling overturning the abortion rights precedent that in the decision the court took no position on "if and when prenatal life is entitled to any of the rights enjoyed after birth."
Some anti-abortionists support legal recognition of fetal personhood: state and Federal laws and constitutional amendments, like a "Human Life Amendment".
 
Last edited:

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
These male politicians are pushing for women who receive abortions to be punished with prison time | CNN Politics - from a month ago
Eric Swank, an Arizona State University professor who has studied gender differences in anti-abortion activists, said his research found that while men aren’t necessarily more likely to consider themselves to be “pro-life” than women, they “are more willing to take the adamant stance of no abortion under any conditions.”

The most restrictive bills, which don’t include explicit “life of the mother” exceptions and would charge those who receive abortions with homicide, have failed to make it to the full vote needed for passage. But others that prohibit abortions even in cases of rape and incest have taken hold in around a dozen states, including Missouri, Alabama and Tennessee, according to Guttmacher Institute.
Interactive Map: US Abortion Policies and Access After Roe | Guttmacher Institute
  • Most restrictive: 12 - AL, AR, ID, KY, LA, MO, MS, OK, SD, TN, TX, WV
  • Very restrictive: 2 - AZ, GA
  • Restrictive: 12 - FL, IA, IN, KS, NC, ND, NE, OH, PA, SC, UT, WI
  • Some restrictions/protections: 11 - CT, DC, DE, HI, MI, MT, NH, NV, RI, VA, WY
  • Protective: 11 - AK, CA, CO, IL, MA, ME, NM, NJ, NY, VT, WA
  • Very protective: 0
  • Most protective: 1 - OR
Those laws, CNN found, were also overwhelmingly passed into law by male legislators. While female Republicans almost always voted in favor of the legislation, gender imbalances within state legislatures, as well as the fact that female lawmakers were more likely to be Democrats, fueled the voting gap. And male Democratic lawmakers were far more likely than female Democrats to cross the aisle to vote in favor of the abortion bans, according to CNN’s analysis.
Republicans have unlikely allies in their fight to restrict abortion at the state level: Democrats | CNN Politics
From that article,
Currently, the only two Democratic members of Congress to publicly oppose abortion are: Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Rep. Henry Cuellar of Texas, which was noted in a recent column about the “end of pro-life Democrats” at the federal level. Republican women in the House, meanwhile, have historically been more likely than Republican men to oppose anti-abortion legislation, the Georgetown researchers noted, but that gender gap has disappeared in recent years as more moderate candidates were replaced by “strongly pro-life women from the South and Midwest.”

At the same time, experts say framing abortion as a women’s issue may prevent men from taking up the abortion-rights side of the cause, whether as advocates or lawmakers — saying anti-abortion activists have strategically capitalized on the power men wield in politics and business. “Let’s be real: there’s a WHOLE lot of men whose lives, careers, and families have benefited from an abortion,” US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat, tweeted in the wake of Roe’s reversal. “Men, we need you right now. You can get through in rooms others can’t. Your power matters.” Some abortion rights advocates also note that gender-based framing of the issue leaves out transgender and nonbinary people who could be affected.
noting
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Let’s be real: there’s a WHOLE lot of men whose lives, careers, and families have benefited from an abortion (including several “pro-life” GOP Congressmen).
Men, we need you right now. You can get through in rooms others can’t. Your power matters. Speak up. This is about us all." / Twitter
 

fromderinside

Mazzie Daius
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
15,945
Location
Local group: Solar system: Earth: NA: US: contiguo
Basic Beliefs
optimist
If an individual is certifiably unqualified for a medical or safety category of information shouldn't those who publish the information explicitly make clear that point at the top of the article. And if one is publishing such material has no qualification for expressing the opinion shouldn't she be liable for consequences her opinion has on readers and listeners.

I really don't see such precautions and sanctions as censorship, they are just being prompted to supply information about what the writer/propagandist actually knows.

Also if one knows the material is untrue should not that be made clear before the reader is subjected to the false information. The same should be required of those who are qualified to disseminate such information.

If validating or contradictory information is available to the publisher should not it be mandatory that the publisher to post that alongside uninformed/untrue information.

I'm getting tired of cries about freedom of the press when that freedom includes hurtful gossip and dangerous prescriptive known and obvious falsehoods.

On the other hand I do not believe that authority has the right to banish or punish those who publish false information. It is the job of authority to provide verifiable contrary information on any topic alongside the false information to the reader or listener. Verifiable information includes sources and accessible references.

My pissed off take on current state of community.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2000
Messages
37,496
Location
Nevada
Gender
Yes
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Their true colors:


How unaware can they possibly be? She appealed to her senator for help because she's got a completely non-viable pregnancy, the only question being who dies first.

He referred her to an anti-abortion clinic. Is there even a brain in his head??
 

Shadowy Man

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Messages
3,568
Location
West Coast
Basic Beliefs
Rational Pragmatism
Their true colors:


How unaware can they possibly be? She appealed to her senator for help because she's got a completely non-viable pregnancy, the only question being who dies first.

He referred her to an anti-abortion clinic. Is there even a brain in his head??
I guess the hussy should have thought about that before she spread her legs.


Right, gentlemen?? Right?
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
38,375
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
I'm getting the feeling that the right-wing thought doctors, women, and pro-choicers were just making shit up about complications with pregnancy. They seem to be utterly oblivious to sexual reproduction.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2000
Messages
37,496
Location
Nevada
Gender
Yes
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
I'm getting the feeling that the right-wing thought doctors, women, and pro-choicers were just making shit up about complications with pregnancy. They seem to be utterly oblivious to sexual reproduction.
Yeah, they seem to have drunk their own kool-aid. Admittedly, it might have been a staffer rather than the senator themselves.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
38,375
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
I very much doubt the Senator was involved. Just a staffer who thought the woman was lying because the alt-right people know nothing about the female reproduction system.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Abortion rights key issue with Latino voters, polls say - The Washington Post - "Experts attribute Latinos’ support for abortion rights to the community’s youth and length of time in the U.S."
For decades, Democrats and Republicans trying to attract Latino voters have been guided by widespread assumptions that the generally Democratic Latino electorate is conservative on the issue of abortion. But recent polls have debunked those long-held beliefs, finding most Latinos say abortion should be legal, often on par with White voters though trailing Black voters in support.

“I just don’t think we’re really as conservative as everybody thought,” Madrid said. “Almost everybody knows somebody who had to think about having an abortion.”

Experts credit the growing youth of the Latino population and the length of time they have been living in and adapting to U.S. culture. Those assumptions were also driven by long-held misconceptions of the role that religion, particularly Catholicism, plays in Latinos’ lives, they say.

“It’s very different than White evangelicals who want their religious beliefs coming out of the mouths of their governors. For Latino Catholics, they get their religious sermon on Sunday from the Father, and then they engage with politics separately,” said Matt Barreto, a Democratic pollster advising the White House and campaigns on reaching Latino voters.
Listing politicians like TX Rochelle Garza cand atty gnrl, Michelle Vallejo cand TX-15, Andrea Salinas cand OR-06 "She speaks openly about her Mexican-immigrant father who is against abortion and about taking her teenage sister to a clinic to get one.", Robert Garcia Long Beach mayor & cand CA-42, ...
This support is partially driven by younger Latinos. In the Post-Ipsos poll, 84 percent of Latino registered voters ages 18-29 thought abortion should be legal compared with 62 percent for those 65 and older — still a majority, but a significantly smaller one.

Mark Hugo Lopez, director of race and ethnicity research at Pew, said as more Latinos assimilate into U.S. culture, the more their views on social issues like this one change. A 2002 Pew and Kaiser Family Foundation survey found a majority of Latinos saying abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. That flipped by 2022, when a majority of Latinos said abortion should be legal in a Pew poll. (The 2002 survey was conducted by telephone, while this year’s version was online.)

“There’s been a shift in their views that looks more like the U.S. public,” said Lopez. “What has been happening is the population has become more settled, so immigrants are living here longer and in some ways looking like other Americans.”
By origin, who wants it legal:

Central Americans: 42%, Mexicans: 56%, Puerto Ricans 62%, Cubans 67%, South Americans 77%.

Some Latinos continue to be anti-abortion, however.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Asian Americans have some of the highest levels of support for abortion rights — and it's driving them to vote
“When Roe v. Wade was overturned, I remember you could hear this eerie silence for women, especially immigrant women, across the United States,” one voter said. "So that’s what’s really driving me to the polls."
Noting Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center
Should be legal in all or most cases: Asian 74%, black 68%, Hispanic 60%, white 59%
The costs are intimate, and Asian women are energized

Immigrant women and women of color like Singh say they know how personal and devastating the outcomes of abortion restrictions can be.

“I am very humbled to be able to go to the polls this year,” she said. “I think Asian and Indo-Caribbean women that are showing up to the polls, they really understand what the ramifications of Roe v. Wade being overturned are to our community.”
Then
In Texas, the state with one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country, Asian voters feel a unique kind of pressure, he said.

“Texas is where the most people are going to be affected by this,” he said. “We know that Black, brown and newly immigrant AAPIs are inordinately affected by these laws. We think that’s going to lead to additional activation by people of color.”

Since young Asian Americans show such universally high support for abortion rights, even the most conservative ethnic groups under the umbrella are trending more progressive on reproductive health care, Nikore said.
A big problem is that "Asian" is a very broad category, and "AAPI" is even broader: Asian American and Pacific Islander. So it would be interesting to break down the statistics by ancestral homeland: eastern Asia (China, Korea, Japan), southeastern Asia (Vietnam, Thailand, etc.), south Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka), and Pacific islands (Philippines, etc.).
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center has lots of other results.

Who thinks that abortion should be legal in all or most cases:

  • By religion: unaffiliated 84%, Black Protestant: 66%, White non-evangelical Protestant: 60%, Catholic: 56%, White evangelical Protestant: 24%
  • By party: Dem: 80%, Rep: 38%
  • By ideology: lib Dem: 90%, mod/con Dem: 72%, mod/lib Rep: 60%, con Rep: 27%
  • By gender: women: 63%, men: 58%
  • By race/ethnicity: Asian: 74%, Black: 68%, Hispanic: 60%, White: 59%
  • By age: 18-29: 74%, 30-49: 62%, 50-64: 55%, 65+: 54%
  • By education: high school or less: 54%, some college: 63%, college grad or more: 66%
 

Harry Bosch

Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
6,258
Location
Washington
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center has lots of other results.

Who thinks that abortion should be legal in all or most cases:

  • By religion: unaffiliated 84%, Black Protestant: 66%, White non-evangelical Protestant: 60%, Catholic: 56%, White evangelical Protestant: 24%
  • By party: Dem: 80%, Rep: 38%
  • By ideology: lib Dem: 90%, mod/con Dem: 72%, mod/lib Rep: 60%, con Rep: 27%
  • By gender: women: 63%, men: 58%
  • By race/ethnicity: Asian: 74%, Black: 68%, Hispanic: 60%, White: 59%
  • By age: 18-29: 74%, 30-49: 62%, 50-64: 55%, 65+: 54%
  • By education: high school or less: 54%, some college: 63%, college grad or more: 66%
We'll find out next Tuesday how many Americans care about abortion rights.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
33,014
Location
Frozen in Michigan
Gender
Old Fart
Basic Beliefs
Democratic Socialist Atheist
Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center has lots of other results.

Who thinks that abortion should be legal in all or most cases:

  • By religion: unaffiliated 84%, Black Protestant: 66%, White non-evangelical Protestant: 60%, Catholic: 56%, White evangelical Protestant: 24%
  • By party: Dem: 80%, Rep: 38%
  • By ideology: lib Dem: 90%, mod/con Dem: 72%, mod/lib Rep: 60%, con Rep: 27%
  • By gender: women: 63%, men: 58%
  • By race/ethnicity: Asian: 74%, Black: 68%, Hispanic: 60%, White: 59%
  • By age: 18-29: 74%, 30-49: 62%, 50-64: 55%, 65+: 54%
  • By education: high school or less: 54%, some college: 63%, college grad or more: 66%
Seems to me the ninth amendment should come into play here.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2001
Messages
38,375
Basic Beliefs
Calvinistic Atheist
Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center has lots of other results.

Who thinks that abortion should be legal in all or most cases:

  • By religion: unaffiliated 84%, Black Protestant: 66%, White non-evangelical Protestant: 60%, Catholic: 56%, White evangelical Protestant: 24%
  • By party: Dem: 80%, Rep: 38%
  • By ideology: lib Dem: 90%, mod/con Dem: 72%, mod/lib Rep: 60%, con Rep: 27%
  • By gender: women: 63%, men: 58%
  • By race/ethnicity: Asian: 74%, Black: 68%, Hispanic: 60%, White: 59%
  • By age: 18-29: 74%, 30-49: 62%, 50-64: 55%, 65+: 54%
  • By education: high school or less: 54%, some college: 63%, college grad or more: 66%
Seems to me the ninth amendment should come into play here.
Seeing the current SCOTUS lineup views Constitutional cases more as a legal Madlib, it really doesn't matter what the Constitution or laws say.
 

Gospel

Unify Africa
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
3,771
Location
Florida
Basic Beliefs
Agnostic
Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center has lots of other results.

Who thinks that abortion should be legal in all or most cases:

  • By religion: unaffiliated 84%, Black Protestant: 66%, White non-evangelical Protestant: 60%, Catholic: 56%, White evangelical Protestant: 24%
  • By party: Dem: 80%, Rep: 38%
  • By ideology: lib Dem: 90%, mod/con Dem: 72%, mod/lib Rep: 60%, con Rep: 27%
  • By gender: women: 63%, men: 58%
  • By race/ethnicity: Asian: 74%, Black: 68%, Hispanic: 60%, White: 59%
  • By age: 18-29: 74%, 30-49: 62%, 50-64: 55%, 65+: 54%
  • By education: high school or less: 54%, some college: 63%, college grad or more: 66%
Seems to me the ninth amendment should come into play here.

I thought the ninth amendment was just saying that the government can't use the enumerated rights within the bill of rights as a "you (the government) have power over all but these things" list.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Opinion | I Write About Post-Roe America Every Day. It’s Worse Than You Think. - The New York Times - Nov 5 - by Jessica Valenti
This isn’t hyperbole. Laws that privilege fetuses over those who carry them haven’t just relegated women to second-class citizenship; they have also led to the denial of lifesaving care in case after case. In‌ affidavits, Ohio health care providers reported having to comfort a sobbing cancer patient who was refused an abortion, and seeing at least three patients who threatened to commit suicide after being denied abortions.

In August, a woman in Texas who was denied an abortion for an unviable pregnancy ended up in the intensive care unit with sepsis. Another Texas woman, pregnant and in failing health, was recently told she shouldn’t come back unless she had a condition as severe as liver failure or stroke. A woman in Wisconsin was left bleeding for more than 10 days after an incomplete miscarriage just days after the Supreme Court’s decision; a doctor ‌in Texas was told not to treat an ectopic pregnancy until it ruptured.

And then there are the stories of women forced to endure doomed pregnancies. Nancy Davis, a mother of three in Louisiana, ‌was denied an abortion even though her fetus was missing part of its head. Chelsea Stovall in Arkansas, who was 19 weeks pregnant when she found out that her daughter wouldn’t survive, was also refused treatment. After traveling 400 miles to get an abortion, she told a local reporter, “I should be able to say goodbye to her where I want to.”

Those are just the adults. ‌This summer, Republicans insisted the story of a raped and pregnant 10-year-old in Ohio‌ was a hoax, and later tried to paint the girl’s experience as a tragic anomaly. In fact dozens of girls in Ohio 14 years old and under had abortions in 2021. In neighboring Kentucky, more than a dozen children aged 14 or younger had abortions last year; two 9-year-olds needed abortions in the past few years. These are victimized children who will now be forced to carry pregnancies, perilous for their small bodies, or leave their home state for care.
Anti-abortionists' response? "In response to the onslaught of post-Roe horror stories, Republican legislators and abortion opponents have claimed that physicians are misreading the laws and failing their patients as a result."
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
These anti-abortion laws are having a wide impact.
At an annual meeting of pulmonologists, a special session was held on how to avoid breaking the law while caring for lung disease patients they may have to advise on ending dangerous pregnancies.

...
I spoke to a young woman struggling with infertility in Tennessee, for example, whose state representative told her that I.V.F. doctors could be prosecuted under the abortion ban there for discarding unused embryos (a common part of the I.V.F. process). “We just want to be parents,” she told me.
Then about how some forms of birth control are being attacked as forms of abortion.

These abortion bans have caused clinics in nearby abortion-friendly states to be overloaded, with several weeks of wait time.

"Doctors who might otherwise speak up are also being silenced, warned by their employers’ PR and legal teams not to share stories of how abortion bans have affected their work and are hurting women."

Conservatives have claimed that they are not interested in targeting individual women. But in the past year, a teenager in Nebraska who authorities say had an illegal abortion is awaiting trial for concealing a death, and an Alabama county jail reportedly kept pregnant women in detention in an effort to “protect” their unborn fetuses from possible drug exposure.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Abortion Vans Are Now Meeting Patients Near Ban States - Cosmopolitan - Oct 26 - "Very soon, your nearest abortion clinic might not have a real address or a phone number or a front door. But it could have an engine and wheels. Cosmo takes the first in-depth look at the undercover mobile clinics steering the future of abortion care."

How it would work.
You’re having an abortion today—that much you know. The pregnancy is about 7 weeks along, and you’ve booked an appointment for a vacuum aspiration procedure. It’ll be quick, simple, and safe. Five minutes, tops. You’re just not exactly sure where the appointment will be, because the clinic is motoring down a highway somewhere, just like you are.

Abortion is now almost entirely banned in your home state of Louisiana, so you and your best friend had to hit the road yesterday, taking turns driving through miles of swampy Southern wetlands before stopping overnight in the Texas Panhandle. You’re about to cross into eastern Colorado, the Rocky Mountains rising into view, and soon, your phone will buzz with a call directing you to your confidential destination: a seemingly random parking lot just over the state line. That’s where you’ll find an unmarked van waiting for you—a fully operational abortion clinic, hiding in plain sight.
Just The Pill offers abortion delivered in Colorado, Minnesota, Montana & Wyoming.

Then describing turning commercial vans into mobile abortion clinics.
Security was always a top priority, but now it really is. Organizers aren’t publicly revealing what the mobile clinics look like, for one. (Let’s just say you won’t see “Abortion Delivered” painted on the side.) They’re even secretive about the days and hours they’ll be seeing patients.

Basically, unless you’re rolling up for an appointment, you won’t even know if Abortion Delivered is parked in your neighborhood. “Those of us who have been through arsons, who have been through blockades, who have been through Nazis protesting us, we understand,” Amanda says. “We are the experts in our security in a way that even law enforcement is not.” Each single room van will have a staff of at least four: a clinician, a medical assistant, a driver, and a security guard. “It’s a small group of people who have a lot of trust in one another,” Amanda explains. The vans are outfitted with ballistics protection—bullet-proofing, just in case.
Will they blindfold their patients? That's what Jane's Collective did.

Code Name Jane: The Women Behind a Covert Abortion Network - The New York Times
The Janes’ tactics were worthy of a spy novel. A woman seeking to end her pregnancy left a message on an answering machine. A “Callback Jane” phoned her, collected information and passed it to a “Big Jane.” Patients would be taken first to one address, “the front,” for counseling. They were then led, sometimes blindfolded, to another spot, “the place,” where a doctor did the abortion.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Here’s how it’ll likely play out: Let’s say you call a clinic seeking an appointment and learn that all the upcoming spots are booked. The clinic worker might say something like, “Well, there could be another option in the next few days with a mobile provider….” From there, you’ll be connected with Just the Pill directly to complete any safety checks and make arrangements one-on-one with the van’s team. (The clinic that connected you won’t be involved.) You’ll learn the van’s exact location shortly before your appointment.
Then describing what it's like in an Abortion Delivered van - it's set up for suction abortions. This kind of abortion has an advantage over the abortion pill - the pill induces several hours of cramping and bleeding.
Digital security is, of course, its own major concern. Personal internet data, including search history and private Facebook messages, have already been used in criminal cases brought against people who have undergone abortion or experienced pregnancy loss. Meanwhile, data brokers have drawn criticism for selling bundles of location data—mined from people’s phone apps—with information on visits to abortion clinics. Just the Pill works with an organization called Digital Defense Fund to develop strong internet safety measures, for itself and for patients.
Abortion Delivered plans to play it safe and avoid going into "ban states", staying on the legal-abortion sides of state lines.
Colorado makes sense as a starting point and a proving ground, Dr. Amaon says. The state is already a safe zone for patients traveling from nearby restricted-access regions like Texas and Oklahoma. And Colorado lacks the medically unnecessary clinic regulations that some other states have enacted—burdensome rules, known as TRAP laws, insisting on trivialities like a certain size for janitors’ closets.

Colorado is among 18 states that permit a range of advanced-practice clinicians—not just doctors but also nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, and/or physician assistants—to perform in-clinic abortions, a reflection of the scientific evidence on safety.
Just the Pill is still working on accepting medical insurance.
Each single-room van will provide up to 16 procedural abortions per day. Eventually, the group hopes to have an entire fleet of mobile clinics on the road full-time in Colorado, and it’s eyeing New Mexico, Illinois, and its home state of Minnesota next. Also in the works is a larger abortion bus, with two procedure rooms and a dedicated recovery space. This will allow the group to perform second-trimester abortions as well. It’s some big “can’t stop, won’t stop” energy. Says Amanda, “This is not the time for fear.”
Several other abortion providers are looking to Abortion Delivered for assistance in starting similar mobile operations.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Just The Pill (@JustThePill) / Twitter - "Abortion Delivered is our project to bring mobile clinics to the Texas border! All donations are tax-deductible. Making abortion more accessible and affordable."

Abortion clinics go mobile, seeking flexibility amid patchwork state restrictions | Healthcare Dive - Aug 1
The group currently operates two mobile clinics in Colorado and plans to build out its network of vans and deploy them in states where abortion is legal but surrounding states have banned the procedure, such as New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Illinois.
They currently plan to have 30 abortion vans.
One van, which is currently being retrofitted to serve Illinois is Just the Pill’s biggest yet, with two exam rooms plus a recovery room. It cost more than $500,000.

The mobile clinics, which provide contraception in addition to abortion care, are also bulletproof.
There are plenty of more general sorts of clinics in vehicles. "Currently, there are an estimated 2,000 mobile clinics in America, providing almost 7 million visits each year."
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Just the Pill Makes Abortion Care Accessible and Compassionate - [Dating News]
The team provides telehealth-based medical abortions to pregnant women in Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, and Minnesota. Additionally, Just The Pill also operates a mobile clinic in Colorado where it serves patients who come from across the state and neighboring states for medication abortion care. The dedicated team’s work makes abortions far more accessible for their patients in these states and their border states. In the near future, Just the Pill plans to open the first mobile surgical abortion clinic in Colorado.
They are fundraising for an Illinois fleet and they hope to expand into Pennsylvania and New Mexico.
As it currently stands, states with strict abortion bans cannot prosecute their residents for traveling to a state that permits abortion for the procedure. But with the constitutional right to interstate travel up for debate, this may not always stand true. Anyone concerned about their ability to legally travel out of state for an abortion should pay attention to their state laws and the related cases the Supreme Court chooses to hear.
The Right to Travel Out of State for an Abortion Isn’t as Secure as You May Think | WIRED - Jul 25 - "Despite the DOJ vowing to protect people's ability to travel out of state for abortion care, legal experts warn not to take that freedom for granted."
In terms of what the Justice Department can do if a state were to ban traveling to obtain an abortion, the most likely response would be a lawsuit against that state. Mary Ziegler, a law professor at UC Davis, says the agency would argue that such a ban is unconstitutional. (The DOJ itself did not respond to a request for comment.)
In his concurring opinion in the Dobbs case, Justice Brett Kavanaugh claimed that states may not outlaw traveling to other states to get abortions.
The right to travel is generally seen as protected by the Fourteenth Amendment, and this has been upheld by the Supreme Court in the past. However, the right to an abortion was also seen as something that was protected by the Fourteenth Amendment until Roe was overturned.

...
In order to avoid an anti-travel law being struck down by the courts, a state could craft legislation that effectively but not explicitly bans interstate travel.
Like Texas's SB8, which authorizes vigilante lawsuits against abortion.

"Without Congress passing a law to protect the right to travel, it will likely be difficult for the Department of Justice to defend that right."
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
How one unmarked van is quietly delivering abortion pills on Colorado’s border | KUER - Oct 31
As abortion becomes more restricted across the country, a non-descript mobile clinic is operating on Colorado’s border, where women from out-of-state can go to pick up medications themselves.

“It doesn't have any signage on it,” Dr. Julie Amaon, the medical director of Just The Pill, said. “We're not trying to tell people what we're doing to keep patients safe because we know that even in more protected states like Colorado, there are still lots of people that don't agree with what we're doing.”
DrJulieA (@AmaonJulie) / Twitter - "Family Medicine Doc, Medical Director at Just The Pill, ReproJustice superfan, former Texas Rollergirl"

Religious backers of abortion rights say God's on their side | AP News
It was lunch hour at the abortion clinic, so the nurse in the recovery room got her Bible out of her bag in the closet and began to read.

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding,” her favorite proverb says, and she returns to it again and again. “He will make your paths straight.”

She believes God led her here, to a job at the West Alabama Women’s Center, tending to patients who’ve just had abortions. “I trust in God,” said Ramona, who asked that her last name not be used because of the volatility America’s abortion debate.
There isn't much of a Religious Left, but if there was, then it would be fun to watch them face off with the Religious right, with both sides yelling at each other that they are just following God's orders.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Midterms Handed Democrats in Congress a Mandate to Codify Abortion Rights - "With 48 senators supporting a filibuster carveout for abortion rights, Democrats should act before the new Congress."
The Democratic mantra headed into Election Day was that two things were on the ballot: democracy and abortion rights. In a stunning rebuke to the Supreme Court’s overturning of Roe v. Wade, voters turned out en masse to stun pundits, delivering a mandate to Democrats to codify abortion rights into law.

Republicans had hoped that inflation would produce a red-wave rejection of Democrats, and the media talked of little else in the run-up to the election. But the economy has continued adding jobs, with real wages at the bottom rising for the first time in generations, even as Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell tightens monetary policy. Paying more for groceries and at the pump is a painful squeeze, but being unable to find a job can destroy your life. It may be that voters’ recent memory of the Great Recession undercut the potency of the former as a weapon for Democrats.

For Democrats, according to exit polls, abortion was the top concern. Of the 27 percent of all voters who prioritized the issue, Democrats carried them 3-1.
Then about abortion-related victories in Kansas earlier this year, and California, Vermont, Michigan, and Kentucky in this election.

The two exceptions are Kyrsten Sinema, who gets all misty-eyed about the filibuster, and Joe Manchin.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Republican Anti-Abortion Agenda Relies on Minority Rule - "But that doesn’t mean we can rest easy in the fight for reproductive justice."
Insofar as abortion was on the ballot in yesterday’s midterm elections, abortion won. In all five states where ballot measures asked voters to decide the fate of abortion access, voters chose to protect or enshrine abortion rights. In North Carolina, Republicans failed to win a veto-proof legislative supermajority, ensuring that Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper maintains the ability to block abortion bans. And without the feared “red wave” sweeping Congress, GOP plans for a nationwide abortion ban are thwarted — for now, at least.

"We got here because of the far right’s proven record of entrenching minority rule."

"The midterm abortion rights victories should likewise galvanize Democratic leaders to fight hard for abortion access, confident in the knowledge of its popularity."

The Democrats blew opportunities to codify RvW in the Clinton and Obama Presidencies, because not enough Democrats considered it an important issue, and some were anti-abortion.
These midterms also further clarified the ways establishment punditry conjures the myth of the “average American” and their concerns to the disadvantage of real, living people in this country.

Pollsters and political analysts were clear that, despite widespread anger over the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision, midterms voters were not prioritizing reproductive rights. Economic concerns would rule the day, we were told. The professional predictors and commentators failed to appreciate that reproductive rights are also an economic issue, and that the fight for bodily autonomy is not a distraction.

Voters en masse reject outright abortion bans. Republicans may, however, keep doing what they’ve done for years — chipping away at abortion access until the restrictions become de facto bans. The strong electoral successes of Christo-fascists like Gov. Ron DeSantis in Florida and J.D. Vance in his Ohio Senate race give us every grounds for continued concern. The Christian far right will continue to wield disproportionate power; Republicans embrace minority rule.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Messages
20,712
Location
Eugene, OR
Gender
Male
Basic Beliefs
Atheist
Former Anti-Abortion Leader Alleges Another Supreme Court Breach - The New York Times - "Years before the leaked draft opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, a landmark contraception ruling was disclosed, according to a minister who led a secretive effort to influence justices."
In a letter to Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and in interviews with The New York Times, the Rev. Rob Schenck said he was told the outcome of the 2014 case weeks before it was announced. He used that information to prepare a public relations push, records show, and he said that at the last minute he tipped off the president of Hobby Lobby, the craft store chain owned by Christian evangelicals that was the winning party in the case.
The letter itself
The evidence for Mr. Schenck’s account of the breach has gaps. But in months of examining Mr. Schenck’s claims, The Times found a trail of contemporaneous emails and conversations that strongly suggested he knew the outcome and the author of the Hobby Lobby decision before it was made public.
 
Top Bottom