Roe v Wade is on deck

[Trausti]

abortion zealotry is for people who don't know right from wrong

True. If you kill your baby because you don’t want to be inconvenienced, your moral compass is whacked.

 

[Hermit]

abortion zealotry is for people who don't know right from wrong

True. If you kill your baby because you don’t want to be inconvenienced, your moral compass is whacked.

Killing your baby is not an abortion. It is infanticide.

 

[Ford]

The numbers I heard today as to pro abortio in general, about 30% of republicans and 80% of democrats.

It's not 'pro-abortion' - it's 'pro-choice', 'pro-healthcare', 'pro-safety'.

Really. "pro abortion" is a major tell.

Semantics and euphemisms. Whatever you call it, it amounts to the same thing. You can say abort or terminate a fetus if you are squeamish or you can say kill. A life in the process of development is ended. You can spin it and rationalize it as you please.

I support abortion to a point. I oppose late term abortion.

So, you oppose an abortion for a woman whose 6 month fetus has died in her uterus? You prefer that she die of sepsis if the dead fetus is not expelled naturally? Is she allowed to have a d&c if all of the placenta isn’t expelled? Or does she have to die of sepsis?

Late term abortions are performed to save the life abs health of the woman.

Is that what you oppose? Women’s lives being saved?

Lately I've watched a few documentaries about the Tudors. One point that stood out was that in those days, childbirth was - even for royalty - a risky proposition. There was a decent chance that the woman would die in the process, and even if they had a healthy child, there was no guarantee it would survive to adulthood. Henry the 8th would have never been king had his older brother Arthur survived. Yes, he would have been King Arthur.

Alito's draft relies on a jurist who was born a mere 6 years after the last Tudor monarch died. What the actual fuck?

 

[bilby]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

 

[Bomb#20]

The numbers I heard today as to pro abortio in general, about 30% of republicans and 80% of democrats.

It's not 'pro-abortion' - it's 'pro-choice', 'pro-healthcare', 'pro-safety'.

Really. "pro abortion" is a major tell.

What's wrong with pro-abortion? I'm pro-abortion. Abortion isn't wrong and we need to stop talking as though we're embarrassed about it and it's something to be ashamed of. The hell with that. Pro-abortion, pro-abortion, pro-abortion.

 

[Bomb#20]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

The guy advocated a maximum wage. Of course he's a radical far leftist. Just one who is very, very capable of compromise. If he were running in a different country's upcoming election he would conform his policy recommendations to that country's Overton window instead of to the U.S.'s.

On this I disagree. Cortez and the progressives and the Sander's crowd are all or nothing.

If Cortez were all or nothing she wouldn't have pulled nine gees reversing the Green New Deal's trial balloon about economic security for the "unwilling to work".

 

[Angry Floof]

abortion zealotry is for people who don't know right from wrong

True. If you kill your baby because you don’t want to be inconvenienced, your moral compass is whacked.

In the right wing religious world view, only conceptual persons are valued beyond the in-group. An abortion ban will kill people. Born people, people with not only heartbeats but lives, people who can be fed and supported outside of a woman's body.

I mean, right wing religious zealots are always free to prove us wrong, but conveniently, there is no way for them to do that.

 

[Hermit]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

The guy advocated a maximum wage. Of course he's a radical far leftist. Just one who is very, very capable of compromise. If he were running in a different country's upcoming election he would conform his policy recommendations to that country's Overton window instead of to the U.S.'s.

Why would Sanders be a radical far leftist in the US, but conform his policy recommendations to a different country's Overton window if he were running in its upcoming election?

 

[Bomb#20]

The guy advocated a maximum wage. Of course he's a radical far leftist. Just one who is very, very capable of compromise. If he were running in a different country's upcoming election he would conform his policy recommendations to that country's Overton window instead of to the U.S.'s.

Why would Sanders be a radical far leftist in the US, but conform his policy recommendations to a different country's Overton window if he were running in its upcoming election?

The same reason he conforms his policy recommendations to the U.S.'s Overton window when he's running in a U.S. election: because he wants to win. He'd rather get some of his wish-list enacted than none of it. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Hermit]

The guy advocated a maximum wage. Of course he's a radical far leftist. Just one who is very, very capable of compromise. If he were running in a different country's upcoming election he would conform his policy recommendations to that country's Overton window instead of to the U.S.'s.

Why would Sanders be a radical far leftist in the US, but conform his policy recommendations to a different country's Overton window if he were running in its upcoming election?

The same reason he conforms his policy recommendations to the U.S.'s Overton window when he's running in a U.S. election: because he wants to win. He'd rather get some of his wish-list enacted than none of it. This isn't rocket science.

So he is a radical far leftist in the US, but would conform his policy recommendations to a different country's Overton window? You are confused about stuff that is not even rocket science.

 

[Metaphor]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

You can't be serious.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The numbers I heard today as to pro abortio in general, about 30% of republicans and 80% of democrats.

It's not 'pro-abortion' - it's 'pro-choice', 'pro-healthcare', 'pro-safety'.

Really. "pro abortion" is a major tell.

What's wrong with pro-abortion? I'm pro-abortion. Abortion isn't wrong and we need to stop talking as though we're embarrassed about it and it's something to be ashamed of. The hell with that. Pro-abortion, pro-abortion, pro-abortion.

Because "pro-abortion" isn't what people like me are for. I'm for a woman being able to make the right decision for herself. I'm either pro-choice or pro-legal access to abortion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The numbers I heard today as to pro abortio in general, about 30% of republicans and 80% of democrats.

It's not 'pro-abortion' - it's 'pro-choice', 'pro-healthcare', 'pro-safety'.

Really. "pro abortion" is a major tell.

Semantics and euphemisms. Whatever you call it, it amounts to the same thing. You can say abort or terminate a fetus if you are squeamish or you can say kill. A life in the process of development is ended. You can spin it and rationalize it as you please.

I support abortion to a point. I oppose late term abortion.

And that'd really be a red herring as almost no doctor would perform a "late-term" abortion. When they are performed, they are emergency procedures that involve grieving expectant parents.

 

[Worldtraveller]

The numbers I heard today as to pro abortio in general, about 30% of republicans and 80% of democrats.

It's not 'pro-abortion' - it's 'pro-choice', 'pro-healthcare', 'pro-safety'.

Really. "pro abortion" is a major tell.

Semantics and euphemisms. Whatever you call it, it amounts to the same thing. You can say abort or terminate a fetus if you are squeamish or you can say kill. A life in the process of development is ended. You can spin it and rationalize it as you please.

I support abortion to a point. I oppose late term abortion.

Your opinion is noted. And dismissed.

....and wrong.

 

[Elixir]

The numbers I heard today as to pro abortio in general, about 30% of republicans and 80% of democrats.

It's not 'pro-abortion' - it's 'pro-choice', 'pro-healthcare', 'pro-safety'.

Really. "pro abortion" is a major tell.

What's wrong with pro-abortion? I'm pro-abortion. Abortion isn't wrong and we need to stop talking as though we're embarrassed about it and it's something to be ashamed of. The hell with that. Pro-abortion, pro-abortion, pro-abortion.

"Pro abortion" carries the implication that someone likes abortion. But you knew that.
I prefer "pro abortion rights" but "pro choice" is more concise, more accurate and ... shorter.

 

[Toni]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

The guy advocated a maximum wage. Of course he's a radical far leftist. Just one who is very, very capable of compromise. If he were running in a different country's upcoming election he would conform his policy recommendations to that country's Overton window instead of to the U.S.'s.

Why would Sanders be a radical far leftist in the US, but conform his policy recommendations to a different country's Overton window if he were running in its upcoming election?

The thing is, Sanders is not a radical nor is he a far leftist. He's just a bit left of center in the US. People engage in a lot of hyperbole in the US, especially if it makes their own views seem more reasonable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

link

In America, the argument against abortion has been twisted and visualized by a small minority of people. Sociology shows that opinions are more based on an initial perception from the question, not what people actually feel. And it doesn't stop at abortion. These people want to get rid of all forms of abortions. Remember the Hobby Lobby case. They wanted an exemption for a drug that didn't even do what they said it did, based on religious grounds.

One must also remember the good ole days. Griswold v Connecticut happened for a reason. And that was dealing with the most basic of birth control. The pro-birth group don't want to overturn Roe v Wade, they want to overturn Griswold v Connecticut.

link

So in general, the only way to deal with Roe v Wade would be to 1) ban it by giving fetuses the right to live which creates a bizarre issue of a fetus past 8 weeks has the right to live or 2) ham handed hand off to the states like a loose piece of yarn being specifically left hanging out to be pulled on to ban contraception.

We've seen the draft of the anti-Roe/Casey ruling and it falls under the "ham handed" section of judicial review and foresight.

And now this (gifted WashPo)...

When asked if Mississippi might next target the use of contraceptives such as the Plan B pill or intrauterine devices, Reeves demurred, saying that was not what the state was focused on “at this time.”

“My view is that the next phase of the pro-life movement is focusing on helping those moms that maybe have an unexpected and unwanted pregnancy,” Reeves said. “And while I’m sure there will be conversations around America regarding [contraceptives], it’s not something that we have spent a lot of time focused on.”

Reeves’s comments come days after Louisiana Republicans advanced a bill that would charge abortion as homicide and grant constitutional rights to a person “from the moment of fertilization.” That language could also restrict the use of emergency contraception and other methods that seek to prevent a fertilized embryo from implanting in the uterus.

Cute how they want to help pregnant women not ready to have a child, yet not having passed a single line of legislation to deal with it. And we are seeing the war against Griswold, as easily predicted. The "ink" isn't even on the paper for the SCOTUS ruling yet, and the GOP is banning most forms of birth control already!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

The guy advocated a maximum wage. Of course he's a radical far leftist. Just one who is very, very capable of compromise. If he were running in a different country's upcoming election he would conform his policy recommendations to that country's Overton window instead of to the U.S.'s.

Why would Sanders be a radical far leftist in the US, but conform his policy recommendations to a different country's Overton window if he were running in its upcoming election?

The thing is, Sanders is not a radical nor is he a far leftist. He's just a bit left of center in the US. People engage in a lot of hyperbole in the US, especially if it makes their own views seem more reasonable.

Most importantly, Sanders is a derail.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

You can't be serious.

Very sorry for the derail! But I've been noticing a trend for a long time that the right is very comfortable and even confrontational about declaring that they are conservative and far right. No qualms. The middle is for the wimps. However, many on the left are very uncomfortable declaring their positions more represent the left. Their position is moderate. People on the left don't like to admit that they are on the left. I don't know why.

 

[Toni]

The notion that Bernie Sanders is a radical far leftist utterly incapable of compromise is an opinion fully so divorced from his actual record as a politician as to be non-intersecting.

If he were running in our upcoming election, he would be distinctly right of centre. He would fit in quite well with the Coalition.

You can't be serious.

Very sorry for the derail! But I've been noticing a trend for a long time that the right is very comfortable and even confrontational about declaring that they are conservative and far right. No qualms. The middle is for the wimps. However, many on the left are very uncomfortable declaring their positions more represent the left. Their position is moderate. People on the left don't like to admit that they are on the left. I don't know why.

I think it's a hold over from the Red Scare plus all of the animus directed at the hippies of bygone days: People want to think they are more grown up and more sensible. Plus the right is really mean to anyone they think has a better sales pitch. They aren't much for carrots when they have hellfire and damnation to use as sticks.

AND I think most people in the US prefer to think of themselves as centrists--not as radical anything. I've heard some very right wing people refer to themselves as center of the road/conservative. Because they see conservative as center of the road. In the traditional sense: conservative meaning wanting to preserve the status quo, they are not wrong: change is hard for most people and so they mostly want to keep things as they are, with a few minor tweaks. The other part of conservative, though, is wishing to return to a former state of being. Today's right wingers would not only like to return us to before Roe V Wade but also pre-Civil War.