RussiaGate

[Copernicus]

So umm... we need to talk about this Russian sanction thing, where Russia is booting "700ish" Americans from Russia. This is in light of the Senate/House passed bill which the ball-less President will sign, according to Sanders at least.

So this really leads us to the question, why is Putin doing this now? It would seem to get the appearance that an agreement existed where the Trump Admin would lift the Obama sanctions on Russia. And we know that Trump tried to return the HQs back to Russia, which led to the Senate moving onto codifying the sanctions.

Isn't this more evidence indicating that Russia and Trump struck a deal?

The number is 755 embassy staff jobs, and the press has been very misleading about this. Many, if not most, of those positions will be local Russians who hold staff jobs with the embassies. Putin is capping the staff size at 450, which is supposedly the same number of jobs at Russian diplomatic facilities in the US.

Putin is doing this in retaliation to the new Russia sanctions law that Trump has said he will sign, but it is largely a symbolic move by a dictator who has very badly miscalculated how the American system would behave to a new pro-Russia leader in the White House. US presidents do not hold nearly the level of power that he is used to, so they cannot as effectively bend policy to their whims. Moreover, the reaction to Putin's military intelligence operation against the US election system has seriously backfired. Relations between Russia and the US are lower now than they were before Obama left office, and they are likely to stay worse for a long time. The turmoil and outrage over his meddling makes every attempt to deescalate tensions more difficult, if not impossible.

See Putin’s Bet on a Trump Presidency Backfires Spectacularly

 

[ZiprHead]

I have no problem with the rest of your post, but this I disagree with. Trump lost the election, bigly. We do not deserve him.

If you want a system based on votes, e.g. proportional representation, then the electoral system should be changed but the electoral college is still there.

The previous British Prime Minister, Cameron won a parliamentary vote with 36.1% of the vote.
The West has bigger issues than Russia to deal with such as Radicalised Islam (separate from the standard going about their own business silent majority Muslims). Russia like it or not could be a good partner in combatting ISIS and others.

 

[whichphilosophy]

If you want a system based on votes, e.g. proportional representation, then the electoral system should be changed but the electoral college is still there.

The previous British Prime Minister, Cameron won a parliamentary vote with 36.1% of the vote.
The West has bigger issues than Russia to deal with such as Radicalised Islam (separate from the standard going about their own business silent majority Muslims). Russia like it or not could be a good partner in combatting ISIS and others.

View attachment 12010

I was merely passing on my worldly wisdom

 

[J842P]

America deserves Trump.

I have no problem with the rest of your post, but this I disagree with. Trump lost the election, bigly. We do not deserve him.

No, he didn't lose the election. If you think Trump lost the election, then you are living in a fantasy world. Perhaps you mean something different by "lost the election", but whatever it means, it doesn't mean what it is commonly understood to mean.

- - - Updated - - -

Because for Russia, it has never been about some sort of deal. I've stated this before, but Trump isn't some Manchurian candidate. The biggest reason Putin would ever have to want to support Trump is because Trump makes the US look bad. If he could get Trump to lift sanctions, that would be icing on the cake. But Trump was a targeted strike against America's reputation. And really, you cannot blame the Russians for this. America deserves Trump.

You are giving russians a credit which they probably do not deserve. I mean yes, it's possible they saw it through and wanted Trump because it would mean ineffective White House, but It is also could be they thought they could "work" with Trump. I tend to think they simply hated Hillary.

Well, honestly, I doubt even they thought he could win. I think you are right, they did just hate Hillary. Of course, making the US elections look bad was probably also a part of the motive, but probably to their own surprise, the buffoon actually won!

 

[J842P]

So umm... we need to talk about this Russian sanction thing, where Russia is booting "700ish" Americans from Russia. This is in light of the Senate/House passed bill which the ball-less President will sign, according to Sanders at least.

So this really leads us to the question, why is Putin doing this now? It would seem to get the appearance that an agreement existed where the Trump Admin would lift the Obama sanctions on Russia. And we know that Trump tried to return the HQs back to Russia, which led to the Senate moving onto codifying the sanctions.

Isn't this more evidence indicating that Russia and Trump struck a deal?

The number is 755 embassy staff jobs, and the press has been very misleading about this. Many, if not most, of those positions will be local Russians who hold staff jobs with the embassies. Putin is capping the staff size at 450, which is supposedly the same number of jobs at Russian diplomatic facilities in the US.

Putin is doing this in retaliation to the new Russia sanctions law that Trump has said he will sign, but it is largely a symbolic move by a dictator who has very badly miscalculated how the American system would behave to a new pro-Russia leader in the White House. US presidents do not hold nearly the level of power that he is used to, so they cannot as effectively bend policy to their whims. Moreover, the reaction to Putin's military intelligence operation against the US election system has seriously backfired. Relations between Russia and the US are lower now than they were before Obama left office, and they are likely to stay worse for a long time. The turmoil and outrage over his meddling makes every attempt to deescalate tensions more difficult, if not impossible.

See Putin’s Bet on a Trump Presidency Backfires Spectacularly

Of for fuck's sake, David E. Sanger? He's a CFR hack and a Neocon. These people never left the Cold War, and Putin is way savvier than the lot of them. These people have been thoroughly discredited, and you should take their analysis on anything with a huge grain of salt.

 

[ZiprHead]

I have no problem with the rest of your post, but this I disagree with. Trump lost the election, bigly. We do not deserve him.

No, he didn't lose the election. If you think Trump lost the election, then you are living in a fantasy world. Perhaps you mean something different by "lost the election", but whatever it means, it doesn't mean what it is commonly understood to mean.

It means he didn't win the popular vote, by about three million votes.

election
[ih-lek-shuh n]
noun
1.
the selection of a person or persons for office by vote.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/election

 

[Tristan Scott]

So umm... we need to talk about this Russian sanction thing, where Russia is booting "700ish" Americans from Russia. This is in light of the Senate/House passed bill which the ball-less President will sign, according to Sanders at least.

So this really leads us to the question, why is Putin doing this now? It would seem to get the appearance that an agreement existed where the Trump Admin would lift the Obama sanctions on Russia. And we know that Trump tried to return the HQs back to Russia, which led to the Senate moving onto codifying the sanctions.

Isn't this more evidence indicating that Russia and Trump struck a deal?

C'mon man! Its a fuckin' witch hunt, haven't you heard?

 

[tupac chopra]

So umm... we need to talk about this Russian sanction thing, where Russia is booting "700ish" Americans from Russia. This is in light of the Senate/House passed bill which the ball-less President will sign, according to Sanders at least.

So this really leads us to the question, why is Putin doing this now? It would seem to get the appearance that an agreement existed where the Trump Admin would lift the Obama sanctions on Russia. And we know that Trump tried to return the HQs back to Russia, which led to the Senate moving onto codifying the sanctions.

Isn't this more evidence indicating that Russia and Trump struck a deal?

The number is 755 embassy staff jobs, and the press has been very misleading about this. Many, if not most, of those positions will be local Russians who hold staff jobs with the embassies. Putin is capping the staff size at 450, which is supposedly the same number of jobs at Russian diplomatic facilities in the US.

Putin is doing this in retaliation to the new Russia sanctions law that Trump has said he will sign,

No he is not. The US expelled some Russian diplomats last December and seized Russian property in America. This is the delayed response.

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/53678

We regard the recent unfriendly steps taken by the outgoing US administration as provocative and aimed at further weakening the Russia-US relationship. This runs contrary to the fundamental interests of both the Russian and American people. Considering the global security responsibilities of Russia and the United States, this is also damaging to international relations as a whole.

As it proceeds from international practice, Russia has reasons to respond in kind. Although we have the right to retaliate, we will not resort to irresponsible ‘kitchen’ diplomacy but will plan our further steps to restore Russian-US relations based on the policies of the Trump Administration.

The diplomats who are returning to Russia will spend the New Year’s holidays with their families and friends. We will not create any problems for US diplomats. We will not expel anyone. We will not prevent their families and children from using their traditional leisure sites during the New Year’s holidays. Moreover, I invite all children of US diplomats accredited in Russia to the New Year and Christmas children’s parties in the Kremlin.

It is regrettable that the Obama Administration is ending its term in this manner. Nevertheless, I offer my New Year greetings to President Obama and his family.

My season’s greetings also to President-elect Donald Trump and the American people.

I wish all of you happiness and prosperity.

 

[Elixir]

No, he didn't lose the election. If you think Trump lost the election, then you are living in a fantasy world. Perhaps you mean something different by "lost the election", but whatever it means, it doesn't mean what it is commonly understood to mean.

It means he didn't win the popular vote, by about three million votes.

election
[ih-lek-shuh n]
noun
1.
the selection of a person or persons for office by vote.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/election

He lost the election but won the Presidency.

 

[Keith&Co.]

but will plan our further steps to restore Russian-US relations based on the policies of the Trump Administration

So, your theory is that the diplomats being expelled will restore Russia-US relations by means of... Um. what?

And when it says:

We will not create any problems for US diplomats.

it means "We will not create any problems for US diplomats for at least 8 months. And then responded to this, rather than an immediate response to the sanctions...

Okay, interesting interpretation.

 

[barbos]

So, your theory is that the diplomats being expelled will restore Russia-US relations by means of... Um. what?

Russians were not planning to expel diplomats at the time. You have very short memory.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, your theory is that the diplomats being expelled will restore Russia-US relations by means of... Um. what?

Russians was not planning to expel diplomats at the time. You have very short memory.

Yeah. The US has about 300ish diplomats. For some reason, Russia has decided to limit the number of Russians that can work with the Yanks. Oh... Russian burn! What is next, Putin won't let the US embassy have Taco Tuesday?

 

[ZiprHead]

So, your theory is that the diplomats being expelled will restore Russia-US relations by means of... Um. what?

Russians was not planning to expel diplomats at the time. You have very short memory.

You would know this how?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Russians was not planning to expel diplomats at the time. You have very short memory.

You would know this how?

The US doesn't employ that many Diplomats in Russia (as in 700+).

Of the 1,279 people who worked at the embassy in 2013, according to a 2013 inspector general report, 934 were locally hired.

link

 

[barbos]

Russians was not planning to expel diplomats at the time. You have very short memory.

Yeah. The US has about 300ish diplomats. For some reason, Russia has decided to limit the number of Russians that can work with the Yanks. Oh... Russian burn! What is next, Putin won't let the US embassy have Taco Tuesday?

Again, you have very short memory. Obama kicked bunch of russian diplomats and arrested some properties russian embassy was using at the end of 2016, hoping that Putin would do the same.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah. The US has about 300ish diplomats. For some reason, Russia has decided to limit the number of Russians that can work with the Yanks. Oh... Russian burn! What is next, Putin won't let the US embassy have Taco Tuesday?

Again, you have very short memory. Obama kicked bunch of russian diplomats and arrested some properties russian embassy was using at the end of 2016, hoping that Putin would do the same.

You have a faulty memory. Western Intelligence was picking up a whole lot of shit between Trump and Russia starting back in late 2015. A shit ton of intelligence was collected and despite what you think, and all that has come out otherwise, the Russians had some involvement in the US election. Ultimately some Russians were booted from the US and a couple spy HQs were seized. The US really didn't go too far. Putin didn't react because he had an understanding with one of the particular characters running in '16. In May the Trump Admin tried to give the spy HQs back to Russia, nothing in return. That is why the Senate got involved.

 

[barbos]

Again, you have very short memory. Obama kicked bunch of russian diplomats and arrested some properties russian embassy was using at the end of 2016, hoping that Putin would do the same.

You have a faulty memory. Western Intelligence was picking up a whole lot of shit between Trump and Russia starting back in late 2015. A shit ton of intelligence was collected and despite what you think, and all that has come out otherwise, the Russians had some involvement in the US election. Ultimately some Russians were booted from the US and a couple spy HQs were seized. The US really didn't go too far. Putin didn't react because he had an understanding with one of the particular characters running in '16. In May the Trump Admin tried to give the spy HQs back to Russia, nothing in return. That is why the Senate got involved.

Bullshit. If Clinton had won there would have been no booting.

 

[fromderinside]

Bullshit. If Clinton had won there would have been no booting.

Had Clinton won the congressional sanctions would have been much tougher. Probably though, congress wouldn't have become involved because Clinton would sanction on her own dime.

 

[barbos]

Bullshit. If Clinton had won there would have been no booting.

Had Clinton won the congressional sanctions would have been much tougher. Probably though, congress wouldn't have become involved because Clinton would sanction on her own dime.

Probably, but that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about Obama booting russian diplomats out

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, your theory is that the diplomats being expelled will restore Russia-US relations by means of... Um. what?

Russians were not planning to expel diplomats at the time. You have very short memory.

No, no, i'm trying to understand why this statement from THEN is offered as proof NOW that the current action is a delayed response to THEN rather than a response to what's going on NOW.
If they weren't planning to expel diplomats at the time, why did they change their mind if NOT in response to the current sanction legislation?