RussiaGate

[barbos]

As usual you "got it" wrong. The real reason for the sanctions is that Russia illegally and dishonstly helped get a fucking moron elected president.

No, it's you who got it wrong, my response was a joke and real reason for sanctions is a desire of US fracking lobby to ban cheap russian gas in EU.

It's the people - not congress - who want to see the tape... which you seem to tacitly admit, exists.

I think Congress is the one who is going to be humiliated when EU say "Fuck you and your sanctions!"

And why in the world would they do that? It's not like they don't know that Russia is trying to fuck with their elections too...

First, they already are doing that, second why would they pay 3 times for the US LNG?

 

[barbos]

Sounds like a signing statement did go along with the execution of the bill, which stated Trump might or might not enforce it. What a douche!

It's not enforceable

 

[Keith&Co.]

Sounds like a signing statement did go along with the execution of the bill, which stated Trump might or might not enforce it. What a douche!

It's not enforceable

Interesting fantasy. All this drama to write legislation that can't be enforced? Fascinating.

How do you figure this?
More to the point, do you have anything to show this to be anywhere close to factual?

 

[Copernicus]

The number is 755 embassy staff jobs, and the press has been very misleading about this. Many, if not most, of those positions will be local Russians who hold staff jobs with the embassies. Putin is capping the staff size at 450, which is supposedly the same number of jobs at Russian diplomatic facilities in the US.

Putin is doing this in retaliation to the new Russia sanctions law that Trump has said he will sign, but it is largely a symbolic move by a dictator who has very badly miscalculated how the American system would behave to a new pro-Russia leader in the White House. US presidents do not hold nearly the level of power that he is used to, so they cannot as effectively bend policy to their whims. Moreover, the reaction to Putin's military intelligence operation against the US election system has seriously backfired. Relations between Russia and the US are lower now than they were before Obama left office, and they are likely to stay worse for a long time. The turmoil and outrage over his meddling makes every attempt to deescalate tensions more difficult, if not impossible.

See Putin’s Bet on a Trump Presidency Backfires Spectacularly

Of for fuck's sake, David E. Sanger? He's a CFR hack and a Neocon. These people never left the Cold War, and Putin is way savvier than the lot of them. These people have been thoroughly discredited, and you should take their analysis on anything with a huge grain of salt.

Oh, I don't care what Sanger's politics are. Rather than to attack the source--"poisoning the well" is what that is called--you could try actually saying what you disagree with in the content of his article and why. If it bothers you that Sanger "never left the Cold War", then what do you like so much about Putin? Do you think that old KGB dog has learned some new tricks? He's nothing but a revanchist tinpot dictator who wants to reassemble the old Soviet empire. His attempt to get the sanctions lifted has backfired spectacularly, and now we are looking a severely worsened relations in the future. He went from a country that was recovering its wealth and economy to one of an international pariah with a steadily declining economy.

 

[barbos]

It's not enforceable

Interesting fantasy. All this drama to write legislation that can't be enforced? Fascinating.

How do you figure this?

Because Europe is vehemently against it.

More to the point, do you have anything to show this to be anywhere close to factual?

I find that highly insulting and ridiculous. What's next, you demand facts to support that Earth is not flat or water is wet?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Interesting fantasy. All this drama to write legislation that can't be enforced? Fascinating.

How do you figure this?

Because Europe is vehemently against it.

That doesn't make it unenforceable, though.
Maybe it'll make it difficult to enforce.
Maybe it'll make it politically costly to enforce.
But not unenforceable.

More to the point, do you have anything to show this to be anywhere close to factual?

I find that highly insulting and ridiculous.

Um...i could give a fuck?

What's next, you demand facts to support that Earth is not flat or water is wet?

Well, the last time i asked you for support that was more compelling than it just looked obvious, you said, 'it looks obvious to me.' That's the sort of bullshit that makes me have to explain what i'm looking for in factual support of your opinions.

 

[barbos]

Because Europe is vehemently against it.

That doesn't make it unenforceable, though.
Maybe it'll make it difficult to enforce.
Maybe it'll make it politically costly to enforce.
But not unenforceable.

It's politically unenforceable. EU will be using russian gas, period

More to the point, do you have anything to show this to be anywhere close to factual?

I find that highly insulting and ridiculous.

Um...i could give a fuck?

What's next, you demand facts to support that Earth is not flat or water is wet?

Well, the last time i asked you for support that was more compelling than it just looked obvious, you said, 'it looks obvious to me.' That's the sort of bullshit that makes me have to explain what i'm looking for in factual support of your opinions.

Yes it's obvious and should be to you as well.
We are not in 1995 anymore. Asking for links which can be easily found with google is nothing but an attempt to annoy people. Moreover I am pretty sure you have read and heard them already.

 

[barbos]

So only 2 senators voted against the bill - Rand Pau andl Bernie Sanders. I wonder how mostly left leaning public here explain their support for this stupid bill and Sanders voting against it?

Let's not forget that Iran is in that bill as well, Iran with which Democrat Obama made a deal and now it seems democrats are ready to throw it out.

Russian press discuss what kind of shit Russia could do to US as a response. Suggestions discussed are: cutting off supply of titanium for Boeing, enriched uranium for US nuclear plants and that's about it for economics. But they say even though that would be devastating for Boeing that would never happen because it would hurt Russia too. But that would have been actually fair to EU - if US want to get rid Europe of Russian gas then they should get rid themselves of russian titanium as well. The only realistic response it seems is indirect - arming Iran to the teeth and recusing themselves from helping US with North Korea. I bet Lavrov thinks "Seriously, you put NK and Russia on the same bill and want Russia to help? How about you go and fuck yourself?" They also talk about helping Venezuela but that's just stupid and pathetic.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Trade between the EU and UK with Russia is pretty enormous and essential for growth of all the trading partners. I don't think it cutting its nose off to spite its face so as to sheepishly the illogical philosophies of the USA in boycotting a country that has never imposed a serious threat on the US since the fall of communism.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Of for fuck's sake, David E. Sanger? He's a CFR hack and a Neocon. These people never left the Cold War, and Putin is way savvier than the lot of them. These people have been thoroughly discredited, and you should take their analysis on anything with a huge grain of salt.

Oh, I don't care what Sanger's politics are. Rather than to attack the source--"poisoning the well" is what that is called--you could try actually saying what you disagree with in the content of his article and why. If it bothers you that Sanger "never left the Cold War", then what do you like so much about Putin? Do you think that old KGB dog has learned some new tricks? He's nothing but a revanchist tinpot dictator who wants to reassemble the old Soviet empire. His attempt to get the sanctions lifted has backfired spectacularly, and now we are looking a severely worsened relations in the future. He went from a country that was recovering its wealth and economy to one of an international pariah with a steadily declining economy.

Russia does trade extensively with the US. I've quoted such figures in the past. It is inconvenient when the US boycotts some trade and is clearly the aggressive party. Russia can obtain US goods made in China by US manufacturing branches. It just means extra shipping costs and Shipping to intermediate destinations for re export.

How do you think Sudan developed tens of billions of dollars in oil and gas pipelines using top grade US equipment. However the embargo opened the door to Chinese, Malaysian and European suppliers as dependency on US products declined.

I was one of those who arranged such logistics through the Chinese contractor that build these facilities.

The US is a state sponsor of global conflict either through instigating wars or trying to control the policies of other nations.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So only 2 senators voted against the bill - Rand Pau andl Bernie Sanders. I wonder how mostly left leaning public here explain their support for this stupid bill and Sanders voting against it?

Let's not forget that Iran is in that bill as well, Iran with which Democrat Obama made a deal and now it seems democrats are ready to throw it out.

Russian press discuss what kind of shit Russia could do to US as a response.

How cute. Russia isn't exactly flush with cash. They need to sell their metals and gas because their economy isn't too bright. Russia won't fair too well.

 

[barbos]

So only 2 senators voted against the bill - Rand Pau andl Bernie Sanders. I wonder how mostly left leaning public here explain their support for this stupid bill and Sanders voting against it?

Let's not forget that Iran is in that bill as well, Iran with which Democrat Obama made a deal and now it seems democrats are ready to throw it out.

Russian press discuss what kind of shit Russia could do to US as a response.

How cute. Russia isn't exactly flush with cash. They need to sell their metals and gas because their economy isn't too bright. Russia won't fair too well.

How is your post necessary? I wrote myself that they can't do that for the reason you repeated. But to be fair if it comes to that then Boeing's losses in short term would be orders of magnitude higher than these of Russia.

 

[starwater]

Mueller just impaneled a Grand Jury

You don't go down the Grand Jury path unless there is something at the end of it.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just saw that myself. Does a grand jury insulate the mueller team from charges of a partisan "witch hunt?"

 

[Artemus]

Just saw that myself. Does a grand jury insulate the mueller team from charges of a partisan "witch hunt?"

Reuters just reported that the grand jury issued subpoenas regarding the Trump, Jr., Kushner, Manafort, and lots of Russians meeting.

Which thread is most appropriate for continued discussions? I thought that this one was pretty well derailed.

ETA: Link.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Mueller just impaneled a Grand Jury

You don't go down the Grand Jury path unless there is something at the end of it.

It's not possible to know what is at the end of the path until you reach there.

This is a standard practice in such an investigation

• The Grand Jury normally consisting of 23 members is selected to examine the validity of an accusation prior to trial.
• The subpoena is simply asking someone to testify.

Nothing suggests that a subpoena before a Grand Jury indicates something can be concluded.

This is standard procedure as the first and second steps of an investigation.

- - - Updated - - -

Just saw that myself. Does a grand jury insulate the mueller team from charges of a partisan "witch hunt?"

This looks like standard procedure so I don't think a charge of witch hunting can be very convincing at this stage.

 

[Elixir]

Just saw that myself. Does a grand jury insulate the mueller team from charges of a partisan "witch hunt?"

Reuters just reported that the grand jury issued subpoenas regarding the Trump, Jr., Kushner, Manafort, and lots of Russians meeting.

Which thread is most appropriate for continued discussions? I thought that this one was pretty well derailed.

ETA: Link.

One source said that a grand jury was not newly empaneled, but rather, that Mueller used an already-sitting grand jury to issue the indictments. That could mean that he wants to subpoena people and materials now- quickly.
Trump will be the last to testify, by which time the jurors will know the answers that have already been given, to every question they ask him. Imagine Cheato, all by himself (his lawyer is not allowed in the room during questioning) trying not to lie? The chances that he won't commit criminal perjury are none and none. If this process is not derailed very soon, he's fucking toast.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Senate blocks Trump from making recess appointments over break

 

[ElectEngr]

Senate blocks Trump from making recess appointments over break

And there was much rejoicing...

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Opoponax]

Just saw that myself. Does a grand jury insulate the mueller team from charges of a partisan "witch hunt?"

You gotta keep up with the spin. Already, Trump supporters are saying that because the GJ is being empaneled by people from DC, that it's unfairly biased. And last night Trump continued to call it a witch hunt to his ravenous West Virginia fans.

As far as the system goes, Trump can still fire Mueller, but to do so would only serve to expedite a new, and probably more aggressive investigation, which would only add to obstruction charges.

- - - Updated - - -

Senate blocks Trump from making recess appointments over break

Upon hearing the news, Trump asked, "What's a recess appointment?"