barbos
Contributor
Complete and utter bullshit.
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RussiaGate
- Thread starter Don2 (Don1 Revised)
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Koyaanisqatsi
Veteran Member
Oh no! Is it? Is it complete AND utter? Oh dear.
You'll have to take that up with Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov then.
barbos
Contributor
Since when do you believe the russian government?
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Koy is just reporting what Peskov said. Why are you making a big deal of this? Peskov had no reason to lie. Putin was a KGB officer in East Germany before the collapse of the Soviet Union. He definitely understood both English and German decades ago. He likely uses translators now as a check on his understanding and also to give him time to respond. As you yourself now admit, Putin's response could be construed as a response to both parts of the question. That is, it was a somewhat ambiguous response. Which goes back to my original point that he screwed up the answer. That could very well be why Trump and Putin monkeyed with the original transcript. Both men are highly motivated to make the mess they have created go away.
In Putin's case, he has committed an act of war, although it isn't going to be any worse than a reboot of the Cold War. This is so stupid, because he and Russia would be a lot better off if he had never invaded Ukraine or meddled in Western elections. Now he has managed to isolate his country and cripple its formerly booming economy. Trump is doing a lot of damage to the Western alliance, but it isn't going to fade away just because he helped to get Donald Trump elected president temporarily. What is more likely to happen is that everyone is going to suffer because of that incompetent's moronic behavior, and the US is going to come out with a much more hostile attitude towards Russia than it would otherwise have had.
Underseer
Contributor
Your argument still hinges on Putin not knowing the English language.
barbos
Contributor
No, it does not. Even if one knows english perfectly it's impossible to listen to both translator and origin simultaneously. And it's impossible to speak and listen simultaneously. And despite what Peskov says, Putin english is far from adequate.
barbos
Contributor
He does not lie, he embellishes. As someone who actually has experience I can tell level of english from accent. And it's not as simple less accent -> higher level correspondence. Based on that experience Putin's level is pretty basic. He simply does not have much practice beyond simple "how do you do?" stuff.
Nope, only german.
Bullcrap. And it's irrelevant becasue one can't do that in real life.
Bullcrap again. I don't now admit it, I stated from the beginning that is what happened. And I explained how it happened. And it is time for you to admit that CNN fucked it up.
CNN created that mess. These retards are so stupid that they could not realize that something is not right and recheck with their own russian speaking stuff before going apeshit about how Putin admits meddling.
Stop this nonsense. US does not consider it acts of war when they do it. And it all points toward to act of expressing displeasure at Hillary Clinton, nothing more.
You forgot "invasion" of Georgia in your list of misdeeds.
Yes, he did, alternative would have been NATO in Sevastopol.
Western alliance needs reforming. it needs to stop its aggressive posture with respect to Russia.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Oh, come on, barbos! Don't try to bullshit us about Putin's command of English. We can find perfectly good examples of Putin speaking fluent English in prepared and extemporaneous speeches on Youtube:
In 2010, at a Judo conference (although he keeps using the German name for "Vienna" in his extemporaneous English speech):
[YOUTUBE]vyqAFO7RJeg[/YOUTUBE]
World Cup speech in 2010 in Zurich:
[YOUTUBE]u8tnqyTVdQ4[/YOUTUBE]
In 2011, at the International Ice Hockey Federation Congress:
[YOUTUBE]jrXf8Qn9pBI[/YOUTUBE]
In 2014:
[YOUTUBE]_aNo3DxWaW4[/YOUTUBE]
You admit that he can speak German, so I won't bother to give you examples of his fluency in German. Of course, I will admit that Yulia Skripal speaks English with less of an accent, but Putin knows English well enough to understand reporters' questions.
In 2010, at a Judo conference (although he keeps using the German name for "Vienna" in his extemporaneous English speech):
[YOUTUBE]vyqAFO7RJeg[/YOUTUBE]
World Cup speech in 2010 in Zurich:
[YOUTUBE]u8tnqyTVdQ4[/YOUTUBE]
In 2011, at the International Ice Hockey Federation Congress:
[YOUTUBE]jrXf8Qn9pBI[/YOUTUBE]
In 2014:
[YOUTUBE]_aNo3DxWaW4[/YOUTUBE]
You admit that he can speak German, so I won't bother to give you examples of his fluency in German. Of course, I will admit that Yulia Skripal speaks English with less of an accent, but Putin knows English well enough to understand reporters' questions.
barbos
Contributor
What part of "reading text from the paper does not mean you understand what you are reading, let alone understanding" you do not understand?
The guy does not really know any english at all. He just memorized how pronounce that speech.
We know that for a fact because he later tried to demonstrate his ability to have conversation in english and failed.
I myself could read and even understand written english but until I came to US I had not been able understand spoken english no matter how much I tried. I understand I am probably odd case because I started speaking russian late too.
Any russian can simply repeat english phrase without understanding. There is only one video I found where Putin answers rather simple question in english. He can not have interviews in english and probably will never can. One need a lot of practice which he simply does not have.
Average american will be able speak russian after couple of hours of practice, they won't understand a thing but they will have less accent than Putin have in his english.
The guy does not really know any english at all. He just memorized how pronounce that speech.
We know that for a fact because he later tried to demonstrate his ability to have conversation in english and failed.
I myself could read and even understand written english but until I came to US I had not been able understand spoken english no matter how much I tried. I understand I am probably odd case because I started speaking russian late too.
Any russian can simply repeat english phrase without understanding. There is only one video I found where Putin answers rather simple question in english. He can not have interviews in english and probably will never can. One need a lot of practice which he simply does not have.
Average american will be able speak russian after couple of hours of practice, they won't understand a thing but they will have less accent than Putin have in his english.
Underseer
Contributor
Conservatives will do anything to defend Russia and any politician who appears to be colluding/conspiring with Russia.
Watching Republican voters shift seamlessly from "No collusion!" to "Why is collusion a bad thing?" tells you everything you need to know about the kind of people willing to vote for Republican candidates. They've plunged their heads so deep in the propaganda trough that they no longer can tell which way is up.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
OK, your attempt to defend your position on Putin's fluency in English here is just bizarre. You do know that Vladimir Putin is not Vitaly Mutko, don't you? Or do you think that this video clip is Vladimir Putin in one of his KGB disguises?
OK, but you are not Vladimir Putin either, are you? You can't generalize from your personal experience of English to what Vladimir Putin's command of the language must be and what his experiences of English have been. You don't even have any linguistic training.
Vitaly Mutko was struggling with English in the above video. None of the videos of Putin giving rather extensive speeches in English are anywhere near as awkward.
The "average American" learning Russian is not the same as Vladimir Putin giving speeches to the media and to large audiences. He is not the "average Russian", and he has had excellent training in English (see Does Vladimir Putin speak English? Where does the Russian president live?):
I have seen a few interviews in which Putin interacts with reporters in English, and he does not hesitate to answer questions, sometimes quite fluently. I understand his reluctance to give extensive interviews in English. For one thing, he wants to be very careful that his words are understood. I feel the same way when speaking to Russians, but I can also interact quite easily when I try. I get the impression that Putin's fluency in English is close to my own in Russian, although my pronunciation of Russian is better (because of my experience as someone who has studied Russian pronunciation professionally). He won't understand everything that is said to him, but he can still carry on a pretty good conversation in English.
barbos
Contributor
I demonstrated that ability to read english does not prove ability to understand what you are reading.
In any case, it's all irrelevant. even if Putin was native english language speaker it would still be irrelevant, because he was not listening to the question, he was listening to his interpreter.
Having said that, If Putin was able to have interviews in english he would have had them. The fact that he does not means he can't.
In any case, it's all irrelevant. even if Putin was native english language speaker it would still be irrelevant, because he was not listening to the question, he was listening to his interpreter.
Having said that, If Putin was able to have interviews in english he would have had them. The fact that he does not means he can't.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
No, you don't even have that right. He speaks German far more fluently than English, but he still uses a translator when speaking with Merkel. The reason is what I gave--that he wants to make sure he is understood. He would naturally prefer to express himself in his native Russian. Also, the translator acts as a buffer, giving him time to think about what he is going to say in response.
barbos
Contributor
Maybe his german is not that good? Merkel is also speaks russian and apparently was very good at it at school and even as adult, yet she does like to use or demonstrate it and the reason is, she forgot it
Remember that american guy who spent few years in captivity by Taliban? he forgot english So yeah, one needs constant practice and neither Merkel nor Putin has it.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Nyet. Stop focus on prepare speech. Putin answer questions in English. Questions are more than cowboy "hi, how are you." Ploos, he was correcting translator. Therefore, he is genius. Both smart and strong leader like Prince Vladimir.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
...Maybe his german is not that good? Merkel is also speaks russian and apparently was very good at it at school and even as adult, yet she does like to use or demonstrate it and the reason is, she forgot it
He was posted in Germany precisely because German was his strongest foreign language. He lived next door to Stasi officers for years and got fat on German beer while hanging out with them. There are also plenty of video clips of him speaking German, if you need your nose rubbed in that, too.
barbos
Contributor
Wow, I did not know that, what else you can tell me?...Maybe his german is not that good? Merkel is also speaks russian and apparently was very good at it at school and even as adult, yet she does like to use or demonstrate it and the reason is, she forgot it
He was posted in Germany precisely because German was his strongest foreign language. He lived next door to Stasi officers for years and got fat on German beer while hanging out with them. There are also plenty of video clips of him speaking German, if you need your nose rubbed in that, too.
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Very stable genius.
Underseer
Contributor
It's not just that your excuse was obviously a bad excuse. It's not just that you were debunked and keep doubling down.
It's that you're doing this in defense of Trump. Even if you could somehow disprove this, there's still a mountain of other evidence that he conspired with the Russians. What do you get out of humiliating yourself defending this treasonous groveler?
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Elixir
Made in America
It's amazing that someone can be so ignorant of the subject upon which he propounds so stridently.
Anyone who has read even a cliff-notes version of Putin's biography knows he was stationed in East Germany, and was able to save his own life from an angry mob with hollow threats - in German.
Underseer
Contributor
Oh yeah? Well, you're wrong you stupid libtard because LET'S START TALKING ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON INSTEAD! URANIUM ONE! BENGHAZI! BUT HER EMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAILS!