Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[barbos]

You don't think Putin would consider NATO aircraft in Ukrainian airspace shooting down Russian warplanes to be an act of war by the US against the Russian Federation?

Apparently he does not think that. Crazy, eh?
And do you know who else does not think that? .......... Zelensky, that's right, Zelensky.
And these are the kind of people Russia has to deal with.

Having said that, NATO/EU dumb-asses do think it's acceptable and rational to send more weapons to these imbeciles. What are they hoping to achieve?
Or maybe that was exactly the plan?....... So many questions.

 

[Hermit]

Is it true that during WW2 there were special units behind the front line units that would shoot anyone retreating or not advancing? I've been told that some russian troops weren't even armed and that they were trained to recover the guns of casualties. If no casualties then you're still better advancing unarmed then being shot from behind.

So I did a bit of investigating and that was indeed true. Wiki says that blocking units executed 158,000 russian troops over the course of the war.

Uhm, yeah, the sole source of that claim is one phrase in a very brief tabloid style fluff piece published by the Sydney Morning Herald in 2007.

The two organs of state control, SMERSH and NKVD, executed 158,000 soldiers for desertion during the war

The author was not a historian, and he made no attempt to substantiate anything he wrote. He was a hack.

The number is highly suspect. It's not as though there is any means to actually determine it; in the heat of a battle doing the paperwork recording the number of soldiers shot dead for fleeing it was not particularly high on the list of priorities, and even if true, the execution of 158,000 deserters (note, that number includes soldiers who went AWOL) is dwarfed by the more than 11 million military deaths.

In reality, the vast number of soldiers who turned back in the absence of a general order to retreat were made to return to the front. A very small percentage was transferred to penal units and a much smaller percentage than that was actually executed.

Not that the Soviet Union was the only nation that shot deserters. When Germany reached the stage of desperation that brought about the Volkssturm, summary executions of male civilians between the ages of approximately 16 to 60 became common. The reasoning was that they ought to have been fighting on some front or another. Many thousands were hanged or shot, but again, the number cannot be estimated with any amount of certainty for the lack of paperwork.

The habit of shooting reluctant soldiers reaches back in time. Napoleon stacked his infantry battalions in part so that the following ones can "discourage" wayward members of those ahead of them.

The British had the famous instance of executing Admiral John Byng in 1757 for not attacking the enemy "in order to encourage the others". Untypically egalitarian for such a class-ridden nation to shoot such a high ranking officer, I thought. More's the pity that the execution was entirely unjustified. Byng decided to evade the vastly superior fleet of the enemy that was bound to destroy his own, and attack when the necessary reinforcements he asked for had arrived. The Admiralty was fully aware that he lacked the resources to put up a fight, but did not send any reinforcements and decided to kill him just the same.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Looking at these attacking Russian vehicles, the fact that there is little Russian air support, and that at least a third of Russian forces are not even engaged in the battle, I wonder if the Russian military is intentionally throwing their oldest equipment and most poorly trained personnel out there first as cannon fodder to make as much advancement as possible before utilizing the equipment and personnel they have more of an investment in.

I’d like to see NATO secure Western Ukraine for humanitarian purposes to relieve pressure from neighboring countries. Establish a no fly zone over it. I don’t think it would cause Putin to pull any nuclear trigger even in his twisted version of history.

You don't think Putin would consider NATO aircraft in Ukrainian airspace shooting down Russian warplanes to be an act of war by the US against the Russian Federation?

The more likely question is what will Putin do to EU or NATO aircraft dropping food and medical supplies. We are getting close to that point.

And ain't this the irony of super weapons that act as inhibitors to military action. In a sane world, NATO has destroyed the Russian invasion... not stayed on the sidelines because Putin could go scorched Earth on the planet.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that. In WW2 it was easier to sneak up on the enemy because there wasn't satellite surveillance or much more than human eyesight in planes either. Now Russia would see the Ukrainian troops coming a mile away.

As I said, the mud can't block the road. A few missiles can, though.

And nobody has realtime satellite surveillance.

Drones anyone?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that. In WW2 it was easier to sneak up on the enemy because there wasn't satellite surveillance or much more than human eyesight in planes either. Now Russia would see the Ukrainian troops coming a mile away.

As I said, the mud can't block the road. A few missiles can, though.

And nobody has realtime satellite surveillance.

Drones anyone?

The Ukranians also need far more javelin's and RPG. Far more. The Russian military, as you'd expect for an imperialistic country, greatest strength is their offensive weapons (Tanks). But a $50,000 Javelin can easily take out a $4,000,000 Russian tank. The west needs to destroy as many of the Russian tanks as we can. Sadly, we probably won't win in Ukraine. But if enough tanks are destroyed, makes further Russian invasions less likely.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Looking at these attacking Russian vehicles, the fact that there is little Russian air support, and that at least a third of Russian forces are not even engaged in the battle, I wonder if the Russian military is intentionally throwing their oldest equipment and most poorly trained personnel out there first as cannon fodder to make as much advancement as possible before utilizing the equipment and personnel they have more of an investment in.

I’d like to see NATO secure Western Ukraine for humanitarian purposes to relieve pressure from neighboring countries. Establish a no fly zone over it. I don’t think it would cause Putin to pull any nuclear trigger even in his twisted version of history.

You don't think Putin would consider NATO aircraft in Ukrainian airspace shooting down Russian warplanes to be an act of war by the US against the Russian Federation?

The more likely question is what will Putin do to EU or NATO aircraft dropping food and medical supplies. We are getting close to that point.

And ain't this the irony of super weapons that act as inhibitors to military action. In a sane world, NATO has destroyed the Russian invasion... not stayed on the sidelines because Putin could go scorched Earth on the planet.

I worry about a looming humanitarian crisis if basic services are cut. Many have fled Ukraine but so many more remain. I would suspect people who are first to flee are people with the means do so and somewhere to go.

It would be madness to be sure to walk closer to the nuclear edge. We've all spent a lifetime wondering and at times worrying about this. But what to do? There are still more sanctions. I read US power operators are crying because they get a good portion of their nuclear fuel from Russia and they want to continue to do so. As far as sanctions go, it needs to be all in and right now followed quickly by biting trade pressure on China to get on board. Is China waiting for this to come closer to a nuclear exchange?

 

[ZiprHead]

Looking at these attacking Russian vehicles, the fact that there is little Russian air support, and that at least a third of Russian forces are not even engaged in the battle, I wonder if the Russian military is intentionally throwing their oldest equipment and most poorly trained personnel out there first as cannon fodder to make as much advancement as possible before utilizing the equipment and personnel they have more of an investment in.

I’d like to see NATO secure Western Ukraine for humanitarian purposes to relieve pressure from neighboring countries. Establish a no fly zone over it. I don’t think it would cause Putin to pull any nuclear trigger even in his twisted version of history.

There are reports of Russians puncturing their own fuel tanks then turning themselves in to Ukrainian forces.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that. In WW2 it was easier to sneak up on the enemy because there wasn't satellite surveillance or much more than human eyesight in planes either. Now Russia would see the Ukrainian troops coming a mile away.

As I said, the mud can't block the road. A few missiles can, though.

And nobody has realtime satellite surveillance.

Drones anyone?

The Ukranians also need far more javelin's and RPG. Far more. The Russian military, as you'd expect for an imperialistic country, greatest strength is their offensive weapons (Tanks). But a $50,000 Javelin can easily take out a $4,000,000 Russian tank. The west needs to destroy as many of the Russian tanks as we can. Sadly, we probably won't win in Ukraine. But if enough tanks are destroyed, makes further Russian invasions less likely.

I was speaking more to Russian capabilities. They can monitor in live time the movements of forces. Of course, based on what we seem to be hearing (large salt supply is required for war intel), the Russians aren't actually waging an intelligent operation, at least not to the north.

 

[barbos]

More about "tactics" of "кастрюлеголовые".
Russians have these convoys of russian made (unsurprisingly) military vehicles. And since quality is not that great and statistics is large, eventually some of these vehicles break down and abandoned. So what do "кастрюлеголовые" do? That's right,
they take pictures and videos. Then they burn it and take more pictures and videos and then post it on the internet saying they fought courageously and destroyed it. It works great with some light vehicles. Problem started when "кастрюлеголовые" tried to set on fire abandoned rocket artillery system, fully loaded..... nearby building - leveled.

looks like кастрюлеголовые set their own Nuclear Plant on fire.
great, just great. Using their own people, and foreigners as hostages, burning their own nuclear plants.

I think tactic is becoming more clear.

 

[ZiprHead]

More about "tactics" of "кастрюлеголовые".
Russians have these convoys of russian made (unsurprisingly) military vehicles. And since quality is not that great and statistics is large, eventually some of these vehicles break down and abandoned. So what do "кастрюлеголовые" do? That's right,
they take pictures and videos. Then they burn it and take more pictures and videos and then post it on the internet saying they fought courageously and destroyed it. It works great with some light vehicles. Problem started when "кастрюлеголовые" tried to set on fire abandoned rocket artillery system, fully loaded..... nearby building - leveled.

looks like кастрюлеголовые set their own Nuclear Plant on fire.
great, just great. Using their own people, and foreigners as hostages, burning their own nuclear plants.

I think tactic is becoming more clear.

Do you mean this nuclear plant?

Russia attacks Ukraine nuclear plant as invasion advances

Russian forces have shelled Europe’s largest nuclear plant, sparking a fire. The blaze was reported early Friday as the Russians pressed their attack on a crucial energy-producing Ukrainian city and gained ground in bid to cut off the country from the sea

apnews.com

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian forces pressed their attack on a crucial energy-producing city by shelling Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday, sparking a fire and raising fears that radiation could leak from the damaged power station.

Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant in the city of Enerhodar and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.

A government official told The Associated Press that elevated levels of radiation were detected near the plant, which provides about 25% of Ukraine’s power generation. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not yet been publicly released.

Tuz said firefighters cannot get near the flames because they are being shot at. Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba tweeted a plea to the Russians to stop the assault and allow fire teams inside.

 

[barbos]

Do you mean this nuclear plant?

Yes, russian forces took control of it probably 2 days ago. Cause of fire can't be them.
it kept on working as usual. Clearly russians failed at protecting it against кастрюлеголовые.

 

[SLD]

Do you mean this nuclear plant?

Yes, russian forces took control of it probably 2 days ago. Cause of fire can't be them.
it kept on working as usual. Clearly russians failed at protecting it against кастрюлеголовые.

I’ve been watching live views of it. You can clearly see tracers going both ways. If they captured it, how did it catch fire? Did they set it?

no they’re just incompetent buffoons.

 

[barbos]

Do you mean this nuclear plant?

Yes, russian forces took control of it probably 2 days ago. Cause of fire can't be them.
it kept on working as usual. Clearly russians failed at protecting it against кастрюлеголовые.

I’ve been watching live views of it. You can clearly see tracers going both ways. If they captured it, how did it catch fire? Did they set it?

no they’re just incompetent buffoons.

They did not really capture it. They came and took control saying to the personnel do what you were doing before. It was couple of days ago.
I admit that russians did not expect that кастрюлеголовые would try to retake it (for what purpose?) and try shelling it. That was dumb on the part of russians to not expect that crap from these imbeciles. They should have protected it better and with bigger and more lethal force.
Ukraine does not have army anymore, these are gangs of кастрюлеголовые with no command whatsoever who do batshit crazy shit, like attacking Nuclear Plant with shelling. Or attack helicopters with .... molotovs.

I understand you don't speak russian, but there are streams where sane and well known ukrainians comment on stuff they are being sent in real time and people send them videos. Some of it is insane. There is practically no ukrainian army outside of Eastern Ukraine, and even there it's not an army it's a gang of convicted criminals who have been murdering people for 8 years.
In one of the video mayor (well known crazy) of the town collected bunch of imbeciles like him on the street and voted whether or not to surrender. What the fuck was that?
that's the only comment one can give to that.

Having said all that. The picture you are getting is obviously distorted because only bad (often fake) stuff is being shown. Stuff where nothing happens is not shown. I mean it's out there on youtube but not many people watch it.

I already mentioned to you about rocket system set on fire and leveling nearby building. If Ukraine still had an actual army that would not have happened.

Ukraine does not have ability to do anything with this "invasion" Rational and sane thing to do is to order surrender and start talking about post-invasion Ukraine.
You have done just enough for Russia not wanting it anymore even if anybody ever believed it. Problem is, US is not interested in that now, they are interested in bigger goal - revolt in Russia, and if it means another chernobyl so be it. I don't know what Europe is thinking, idiots!

 

[SLD]

Do you mean this nuclear plant?

Yes, russian forces took control of it probably 2 days ago. Cause of fire can't be them.
it kept on working as usual. Clearly russians failed at protecting it against кастрюлеголовые.

I’ve been watching live views of it. You can clearly see tracers going both ways. If they captured it, how did it catch fire? Did they set it?

no they’re just incompetent buffoons.

They did not really capture it. They came and took control saying to the personnel do what you were doing before. It was couple of days ago.
I admit that russians did not expect that кастрюлеголовые would try to retake it (for what purpose?) and try shelling it. That was dumb on the part of russians to not expect that crap from these imbeciles. They should have protected it better and with bigger and more lethal force.
Ukraine does not have army anymore, these are gangs of кастрюлеголовые with no command whatsoever who do batshit crazy shit, like attacking Nuclear Plant with shelling. Or attack helicopters with .... molotovs.

I understand you don't speak russian, but there are streams where sane and well known ukrainians comment on stuff they are being sent in real time and people send them videos. Some of it is insane. There is practically no ukrainian army outside of Eastern Ukraine, and even there it's not an army it's a gang of convicted criminals who have been murdering people for 8 years.
In one of the video mayor (well known crazy) of the town collected bunch of imbeciles like him on the street and voted whether or not to surrender. What the fuck was that?
that's the only comment one can give to that.

Having said all that. The picture you are getting is obviously distorted because only bad (often fake) stuff is being shown. Stuff where nothing happens is not shown. I mean it's out there on youtube but not many people watch it.

I already mentioned to you about rocket system set on fire and leveling nearby building. If Ukraine still had an actual army that would not have happened.

Wrong. Your army just sucks. Piss poor planning. NATO would easily kick their butts. You should be embarrassed by how poorly they’re doing. Terror bombing is all you can do, and it won’t work. This is already a quagmire. You’re going to lose.

 

[Jayjay]

More about "tactics" of "кастрюлеголовые".
Russians have these convoys of russian made (unsurprisingly) military vehicles. And since quality is not that great and statistics is large, eventually some of these vehicles break down and abandoned. So what do "кастрюлеголовые" do? That's right,
they take pictures and videos. Then they burn it and take more pictures and videos and then post it on the internet saying they fought courageously and destroyed it. It works great with some light vehicles. Problem started when "кастрюлеголовые" tried to set on fire abandoned rocket artillery system, fully loaded..... nearby building - leveled.

looks like кастрюлеголовые set their own Nuclear Plant on fire.
great, just great. Using their own people, and foreigners as hostages, burning their own nuclear plants.

I think tactic is becoming more clear.

As usual, you have no evidence for any of these claims. Just random mass suicides in Ukraine, nothing to do with Russia.

 

[barbos]

Wrong. Your army just sucks. Piss poor planning. NATO would easily kick their butts. You should be embarrassed by how poorly they’re doing

No, I don't think they are as bad as you think.
Again, you are being shown a lot of videos and pictures which are not what they claim to be.
I already gave you multiple examples.
And I will finally explain to you that Kharkiv "bombing" video
It's 100% staged. Image of the rocket/mine was added to the video, but they forgot to add it to 3 frames just before the explosion. Explosion itself produced no damage, whatsoever. Some plastic boards near epicenter flew 3-5 meters that's it. No damage to the cars.
Then "aftermath" video is completely different place with burned car (no ballistic damage)

It's a fake, they exploded fireworks charge and probably can of gasoline and some trash. There was no one hurt in the explosion.

 

[Copernicus]

Do you mean this nuclear plant?

Yes, russian forces took control of it probably 2 days ago. Cause of fire can't be them.
it kept on working as usual. Clearly russians failed at protecting it against кастрюлеголовые.

Stop with the кастрюлеголовые ("pan-headed") nonsense already @barbos. This idiocy comes from your looney video designed to mock the Maidan protesters, and it is pure gaslighting to say that every report of an atrocity was done by Ukrainians against Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians. Everyone here has seen this pattern from you repeatedly, and your only sources of information, which are seldom posted, come from heavily censored Russian sources.

The nuclear plant is still safely in Ukrainian hands, and the true story is that only a training facility caught fire. The Ukrainians are reportedly shutting down the reactors and putting them in safe mode as a precaution, given that more Russian shells and rockets could go astray.

 

[Jayjay]

Wrong. Your army just sucks. Piss poor planning. NATO would easily kick their butts. You should be embarrassed by how poorly they’re doing

No, I don't think they are as bad as you think.
Again, you are being shown a lot of videos and pictures which are not what they claim to be.
I already gave you multiple examples.
And I will finally explain to you that Kharkiv "bombing" video
It's 100% staged. Image of the rocket/mine was added to the video, but they forgot to add it to 3 frames just before the explosion. Explosion itself produced no damage, whatsoever. Some plastic boards near epicenter flew 3-5 meters that's it. No damage to the cars.
Then "aftermath" video is completely different place with burned car (no ballistic damage)

It's a fake, they exploded fireworks charge and probably can of gasoline and some trash. There was no one hurt in the explosion.

Thank you, finally you explained what you meant.

But then again, you (or maybe someone else, it was a long time ago) said the same thing about alleged videos of BUKs in Donetsk and Luhanks that were later shown to be accurate. How do you know what ballistic damage is supposed to look like? If this is just some trash being burned, where is the trash before the allegedly added explosion?

 

[barbos]

How do you know what ballistic damage is supposed to look like?

Don't want to brag but I have seen it with my own eyes.
No, it was not war or anything, just a fire on munition plant.

Kharkiv city bombing is 100% fake. if it were real mine white car would have been shreded into pieces for sure. Otherwise what's the point of bombing if it does no damage?

 

[Jayjay]

How do you know what ballistic damage is supposed to look like?

Don't want to brag but I have seen it with my own eyes.
No, it was not war or anything, just a fire on munition plant.

Kharkiv city bombing is 100% fake.

Since you are unable or unwilling to look at videos, here's a screenshot:



This is the point of impact from the other video. I honestly don't think what you'd expect to see here if you think it's fake. It looks pretty much on par with any other missile strike image search results in google. And there are videos of rescuers carrying a body out of the rubble. Are they all actors too in your opinion?

EDIT: The white car looks to me to be some distance away from the center of the explosion.