Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Jimmy Higgins]

Putin tried to win immediately via fear. Also, I don't think the Russian Military was expecting to invade. If the rumors are right about the convoy, they were blindsided as much as the Ukrainians. I don't think they are using the air force, because that would be a notable escalation. It is easier to fire shells from a distance than a pilot seeing the target he is about to destroy. And in that as well, the payloads on jets is a bit stronger.

 

[Elixir]

reduced to ruble

Great turn of phrase.

 

[SLD]

So according to Pentagon sources today, the Russian armored convoy is stalled due to a lack of logistical support. Sheesh. If that’s really true, then they’re pathetic. They didn’t plan this well.

I once worked for a Polish General who had been a junior officer in the 70’s. He said Soviet military leadership style was simply to yell and scream, and never to really inspire their troops. They treated their Warsaw Pact allies with contempt. Every former Warsaw Pact officer I knew was so glad to see them gone.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Is it true that during WW2 there were special units behind the front line units that would shoot anyone retreating or not advancing? I've been told that some russian troops weren't even armed and that they were trained to recover the guns of casualties. If no casualties then you're still better advancing unarmed then being shot from behind.

So I did a bit of investigating and that was indeed true. Wiki says that blocking units executed 158,000 russian troops over the course of the war.

 

[Jayjay]

Lavrov said that Zelensky could remain president. It might be an indication that Russia might have given up on the plan to occupy Kyiv, just as I predicted.

 

[SLD]

Putin has bitten off more than he bargained for by invading Ukraine. His army seems to have poor logistical support, his conscripts aren’t particularly motivated, his smart weapons are dumb, or they can’t target worth crap. The Ukrainians are putting up a hell of a fight, and if they get into urban warfare, then air and missile weapons are useless, if not worse. They don’t have nearly enough troops. The Russian economy is in the toilet and about to get totally flushed. Even Putin’s own people are protesting so now he’s got to worry about his home front collapsing. My prediction: Putin will end up being deposed. He cannot survive military failure. He will lose support throughout the rank and file and the generals may decide to pull the plug. It will take a few weeks for this to play out. In the meantime, a lot of people are going to die.

 

[Ford]

So according to Pentagon sources today, the Russian armored convoy is stalled due to a lack of logistical support. Sheesh. If that’s really true, then they’re pathetic. They didn’t plan this well.

I watched an analysis today that brought up the convoy, and made an interesting point. If nothing else, Russian war planners can take away from this situation that there is no way in hell that they can even think about tangling with NATO with conventional warfare. The person brought up something that's not quite analogous, but certainly a lesson. The "highway of death" from the first Gulf War. A convoy of vehicles stalled on a road that NATO destroyed so completely that...well...it became known as the "highway of death."

Yeah, Putin has bitten off more than he can chew. Maybe he can sustain the fight in Ukraine. Again, we're still only a week into this, but if he thinks this invasion is a "glorious return to Greater Russia" he's either an idiot or he's completely lost it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Slavs are crazy fucks. They would insert rocks and other objects into living tree limbs. In time the wood would grow around it and it would be a ready made club. These were their arsenals. Apparently there's still a bit of that crazy left in the gene pool. Good for them.

 

[ZiprHead]

The person brought up something that's not quite analogous, but certainly a lesson. The "highway of death" from the first Gulf War. A convoy of vehicles stalled on a road that NATO destroyed so completely that...well...it became known as the "highway of death."

My brother was one of the first troops to get to that road after the convoy was destroyed. He brought back a stack of Polaroids of very crispy Iraqi soldiers.

 

[Ford]

The person brought up something that's not quite analogous, but certainly a lesson. The "highway of death" from the first Gulf War. A convoy of vehicles stalled on a road that NATO destroyed so completely that...well...it became known as the "highway of death."

My brother was one of the first troops to get to that road after the convoy was destroyed. He brought back a stack of Polaroids of very crispy Iraqi soldiers.

A former friend of mine was one of the folks who went in with the SEALS in the early stages of that invasion. We went to see the movie "Jarhead" at a theater. That was an...interesting experience. Unfortunately he went all-in on supporting the 1/6 thing, and that's the last time I talked to him.

 

[SLD]

So according to Pentagon sources today, the Russian armored convoy is stalled due to a lack of logistical support. Sheesh. If that’s really true, then they’re pathetic. They didn’t plan this well.

I watched an analysis today that brought up the convoy, and made an interesting point. If nothing else, Russian war planners can take away from this situation that there is no way in hell that they can even think about tangling with NATO with conventional warfare. The person brought up something that's not quite analogous, but certainly a lesson. The "highway of death" from the first Gulf War. A convoy of vehicles stalled on a road that NATO destroyed so completely that...well...it became known as the "highway of death."

Yeah, Putin has bitten off more than he can chew. Maybe he can sustain the fight in Ukraine. Again, we're still only a week into this, but if he thinks this invasion is a "glorious return to Greater Russia" he's either an idiot or he's completely lost it.

Yeah watching other military experts talking about this column demonstrates what total idiots the Russians are. The people manning these vehicles are stuck there, freezing their asses off every night. They’ve got to be concerned about their flanks, and the threat of sabotage from locals is also an issue. They may not worry that much about air strikes. We aren’t hearing much about Ukrainian air power. I suspect it’s been neutralized. But this is piss poor logistical planning on the Russians’ part. It’s what you’d expect from a conscript Army with piss poor training. They haven’t practiced or planned this properly. They aren’t adapting. They’re trying to rely on missiles and artillery to terrorize Kiev into surrendering. The problem is even more complicated logistics. All of those shells and missiles cost a lot of money. Every loss weakens his country and he’s got to be concerned about other potential threats. And especially internal ones. This could end very badly for him.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that. In WW2 it was easier to sneak up on the enemy because there wasn't satellite surveillance or much more than human eyesight in planes either. Now Russia would see the Ukrainian troops coming a mile away.

As I said, the mud can't block the road. A few missiles can, though.

And nobody has realtime satellite surveillance. Satellites get pictures--they might only be hours old but they're pictures, not movies. The only realtime surveillance is from aircraft. I'm sure we have a realtime picture of the situation, I'm not so sure Russia does and even if it's realtime doesn't mean there isn't cover to hide infantry in.

 

[barbos]

Russian war planners can take away from this situation that there is no way in hell that they can even think about tangling with NATO with conventional warfare.

Russians are using tactics which they think is suitable for the enemy they have.
And I can say the same about your planners. You like to use aircraft carriers. That would become useless junk at the bottom of the ocean in the first 30 minutes of conflict against comparable enemy, before nukes start flying.
That's why you use aircraft carriers against third world countries and have no plans on using them in any conflicts with China/Russia.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I watched an analysis today that brought up the convoy, and made an interesting point. If nothing else, Russian war planners can take away from this situation that there is no way in hell that they can even think about tangling with NATO with conventional warfare. The person brought up something that's not quite analogous, but certainly a lesson. The "highway of death" from the first Gulf War. A convoy of vehicles stalled on a road that NATO destroyed so completely that...well...it became known as the "highway of death."

Yup. That's what happens to a column that doesn't maintain separation and doesn't have adequate air defense.

Note, also, that there's a big human factor at work. When you're in a dangerous situation human nature is to want to be near your friends. However, against air power that's just bunching up, providing a juicy target for a bomb. Being spread out enough that one bomb only gets one vehicle also means each vehicle is basically relying only on itself for defense against infantry. Sending a big column through enemy territory is pretty much offering them up on a platter.

 

[Copernicus]

Russian war planners can take away from this situation that there is no way in hell that they can even think about tangling with NATO with conventional warfare.

Russians are using tactics which they think is suitable for the enemy they have.
And I can say the same about your planners. You like to use aircraft carriers. That would become useless junk at the bottom of the ocean in the first 30 minutes of conflict, before nukes start flying.
That's why you use aircraft carriers against third world countries and have no plans on using them in any conflicts with China/Russia.

I have a feeling that barbos may have been one of the planners of this invasion. He has consistently misunderstood, underestimated, and misrepresented the Ukrainians.

It goes without saying that aircraft carriers would not be used in a nuclear exchange. Besides being sitting ducks, they are slow as hell compared to a missile or stealth bomber. Both Russia and the US have MIRV missiles that carry multiple warheads and can launch them to hit multiple targets. Both countries have nuclear submarines that can get close to the shore of the other country, so it isn't even necessary to place missiles in Cuba or Ukraine. In a nuclear war between superpowers, we are all dead, and probably everyone else on the planet, as well. It is sheer madness to contemplate war between the US and Russia or China. When Putin put his nuclear forces on high alert, that was enough to tell everyone that he is a suicidal lunatic.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of tactics. There is a youtube of a result of ukrainian tactics.
Remember these Molotov cocktail videos with grandmas? I thought it was all for the propaganda. Apparently a bunch of Ukrainian imbeciles from territorial defense forces actually tried it in practice.
Did not work too well against apparently a helicopter with automatic cannon, not a machine gun, a cannon, high speed automatic cannon.

Zelensky should be tried for war crimes for asking civilians to go with molotovs against the actual army.

 

[Copernicus]

Zelensky should be tried for war crime for asking civilians to go with molotovs against the actual army.

I don't know anything about the helicopter video that barbos apparently saw in Russian media. However, those molotov cocktails appear to have been used quite effectively against Russian armored vehicles in terrain where civilians can hide and then approach the vehicles from the rear to hurl their jerry-rigged weapons. Not as effective as stinger missiles, but much cheaper and easier to operate.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Looking at these attacking Russian vehicles, the fact that there is little Russian air support, and that at least a third of Russian forces are not even engaged in the battle, I wonder if the Russian military is intentionally throwing their oldest equipment and most poorly trained personnel out there first as cannon fodder to make as much advancement as possible before utilizing the equipment and personnel they have more of an investment in.

I’d like to see NATO secure Western Ukraine for humanitarian purposes to relieve pressure from neighboring countries. Establish a no fly zone over it. I don’t think it would cause Putin to pull any nuclear trigger even in his twisted version of history.

 

[bilby]

Looking at these attacking Russian vehicles, the fact that there is little Russian air support, and that at least a third of Russian forces are not even engaged in the battle, I wonder if the Russian military is intentionally throwing their oldest equipment and most poorly trained personnel out there first as cannon fodder to make as much advancement as possible before utilizing the equipment and personnel they have more of an investment in.

I’d like to see NATO secure Western Ukraine for humanitarian purposes to relieve pressure from neighboring countries. Establish a no fly zone over it. I don’t think it would cause Putin to pull any nuclear trigger even in his twisted version of history.

You don't think Putin would consider NATO aircraft in Ukrainian airspace shooting down Russian warplanes to be an act of war by the US against the Russian Federation?

I think he would. And I think he could very well go nuclear in response.

But I think it would still be the right thing to do - the decision to use, or not use, nuclear weapons in response would still be his; And it would still be a hugely disproportionate response.

Bullying boils down to the threat of a disproportionate response, with the assumption that the victim will resile from provoking it. But ultimately the response is entirely up to the bully. The victim is blameless either way.

 

[barbos]

More about "tactics" of "кастрюлеголовые".
Russians have these convoys of russian made (unsurprisingly) military vehicles. And since quality is not that great and statistics is large, eventually some of these vehicles break down and abandoned. So what do "кастрюлеголовые" do? That's right,
they take pictures and videos. Then they burn it and take more pictures and videos and then post it on the internet saying they fought courageously and destroyed it. It works great with some light vehicles. Problem started when "кастрюлеголовые" tried to set on fire abandoned rocket artillery system, fully loaded..... nearby building - leveled.