Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Harry Bosch]

The Damn Ukranian freedom fighters are at it again. This time they attacked a school in Ukraine:

Dude, you post random picture which nobody can verify. Nobody

You are insane if you think killing mostly russian or even ukrainian for that matter population is in russian interest.

Yes, I apologize. I should be more like you and post clear, accurate and easily verifiable links for every assertion that I make on this forum.

 

[barbos]

The Damn Ukranian freedom fighters are at it again. This time they attacked a school in Ukraine:

Dude, you post random picture which nobody can verify. Nobody

You are insane if you think killing mostly russian or even ukrainian for that matter population is in russian interest.

Yes, I apologize. I should be more like you and post clear, accurate and easily verifiable links for every assertion that I make on this forum.

Yes, you should. And yes I do that, way more than you, because you never do that.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The Damn Ukranian freedom fighters are at it again. This time they attacked a school in Ukraine:

Dude, you post random picture which nobody can verify. Nobody

You are insane if you think killing mostly russian or even ukrainian for that matter population is in russian interest.

Yes, I apologize. I should be more like you and post clear, accurate and easily verifiable links for every assertion that I make on this forum.

Yes, you should. And yes I do that, way more than you, because you never do that.

I blame all the Nazis that control my country for my poor education!!!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Russians can avoid civilians, but shell civilian areas anyway, what does that tell you?

"Can" does not mean it always happens. Americans can too, does not mean it always happens. You should visit more threads about american police.

The Ukrainian military said Monday that dozens of civilians were killed and hundreds

Does it occur to you they might be lying? And it was them who killed civilians during their own attack? The same way they (verifiably) lied about other incidents?

Russia indiscriminately bombed civilian areas in Chechnya and Syria

Not in Syria.
next question.

Of course, in Syria, Russian Mercenaries attacked Americans and were cut down, and Russia didn't even blink over the incident.

 

[barbos]

Of course, in Syria, Russian Mercenaries

OK, what does it have to do with Russian army?
Russian Army used Syria for training. That's basically what it was - training for new tactics and weapons.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Of course, in Syria, Russian Mercenaries

OK, what does it have to do with Russian army?
Russian Army used Syria for training. That's basically what it was - training for new tactics and weapons.

And they learned you don't open fire on the US positions. Great training plan. Probably could have just left that as a bullet point in training PPT presentation.

 

[steve_bank]

From all the analysis I heard it apears Putin thought just cro

There’s another thread for “what should US response be, but this has obviously become much bigger, soo I’m creating a new place to ask queestions and discuss the military tactics, logstics and etc.

And I’ll start:

that 40 mile-long convoy of Russians headed for Kyiv - what have they not been bombed to smithereens by now? What logistics prevent it?

I kind of expected the molotov army, at least, to make a move. If not the anti-tank weapons. Are they still on the way and the Ulkrainian army has none?

But perhaps it is too far. Perhaps there is not enough cover?

Anyway, wondering why a 40-mile long, slow-moving thing hasn’t been pestered by guerillas.

The short answer is air superiority. Staring with WWI air superiority was a key.

Ukraine has no air force. In the news their pilots have no training in NATO jets, and there was thought to find Soviet era planes they could fly.

The Brits and ohters are sending shouder fired anti tank and anti aircraft weapons. During the Russian occupation of Afgahnistan we supllied Stinger Missiles that gave the Afgahns the ability to shoot down helicopters, it made a big difference.

We and I assume NATO have stand off weapons that can devastate a tank or supply convoy. Stand off means distance, you do not have to directly engage. They can be fired from artillery or dropped in canisters. The Ukrainians probably have no way to use them.

If NATO was engaged air launced weapons coud be fired from outside the Ukranian borders. We have advanced radar and survelance technology that allows us to see details from a distance. I expect we see exactly what is going on.

The reports are that Russian convoys have been destroyed.

 

[Copernicus]

Meanwhile, someone inform barbos that the 40-mile column is stalled according to US sources.

Russia's 40-mile convoy has stalled on its way to Kyiv, a U.S. official says​

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile, someone inform barbos that the 40-mile column is stalled according to US sources.

Russia's 40-mile convoy has stalled on its way to Kyiv, a U.S. official says​

Meanwhile, the Russo Keith&Co in the convey is blasting Alan Parsons Project's Breakdown.

 

[TV and credit cards]

What happened to Russia's Air Force?

Was there no plan because it was a bluff and when Putin got nothing, his pride took over? It seems like they are making it up as they go.

 

[steve_bank]

What happened to Russia's Air Force?

Was there no plan because it was a bluff and when Putin got nothing, his pride took over? It seems like they are making it up as they go.

I think you hit on it exactly. He painted himself into a corner.

 

[Rhea]

I am reading now that it is stalled because
1) out of fuel in many vehicles
2) out of food in others
3) deserting soldiers in others.
4) 1 and 3 combined, russian conscript soldiers poking holes in their own tanks so they can’t be forced to move.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

and have such low regard for civilians

What exactly do you mean by that?
Russian army have been extremely accurate so far.

You can't shell "extremely accurately". If one could, the convoy would have already been destroyed. And you darn well know that.

Only if you're using guided shells. Those are typically only used when you either need to hit a target exactly, or where misses are unacceptable. It's far cheaper to fire a bunch of unguided rounds--guided rounds are typically only used when either a precise hit is required (it takes basically a direct hit to kill a tank, artillery barrages do little) or when misses are unacceptable (there are civilians near the target.) Rare scenarios might also exist where you need a first-round kill.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There’s another thread for “what should US response be, but this has obviously become much bigger, soo I’m creating a new place to ask queestions and discuss the military tactics, logstics and etc.

And I’ll start:

that 40 mile-long convoy of Russians headed for Kyiv - what have they not been bombed to smithereens by now? What logistics prevent it?

I would be very surprised if the Ukranians have the capacity to bomb it to pieces. However, there isn't any reason to.

I kind of expected the molotov army, at least, to make a move. If not the anti-tank weapons. Are they still on the way and the Ulkrainian army has none?

The molotov army will do nothing here. Molotovs are only useful when the people using them have cover that lets them get that close and even then it's extremely risky if the other side has it's infantry out like it should. That video of the APCs getting fried shows molotovs at their best and against a stupid opponent.

But perhaps it is too far. Perhaps there is not enough cover?

Anyway, wondering why a 40-mile long, slow-moving thing hasn’t been pestered by guerillas.

The same reason it's a 40 mile long snake in the first place--it's mud season. Going cross country isn't easy.

To defeat it they should take a page out of Finland's history books. They put some major hurt on the Russian army where they were hindered by forest instead of mud. Block the road with dropped trees, then kill the vehicles at the head of the column--fallen trees are a lot easier to remove than burned-out tanks. Repeat at the rear. Then you have the forces trapped, they can be harried and they'll be running out of supplies.

Mud won't make a useful roadblock, but they have Javelins that can be used to kill vehicles to block the road. Snipers and mortars can make life hell in a trap like that.

 

[Jayjay]

There’s another thread for “what should US response be, but this has obviously become much bigger, soo I’m creating a new place to ask queestions and discuss the military tactics, logstics and etc.

And I’ll start:

that 40 mile-long convoy of Russians headed for Kyiv - what have they not been bombed to smithereens by now? What logistics prevent it?

I would be very surprised if the Ukranians have the capacity to bomb it to pieces. However, there isn't any reason to.

I kind of expected the molotov army, at least, to make a move. If not the anti-tank weapons. Are they still on the way and the Ulkrainian army has none?

The molotov army will do nothing here. Molotovs are only useful when the people using them have cover that lets them get that close and even then it's extremely risky if the other side has it's infantry out like it should. That video of the APCs getting fried shows molotovs at their best and against a stupid opponent.

But perhaps it is too far. Perhaps there is not enough cover?

Anyway, wondering why a 40-mile long, slow-moving thing hasn’t been pestered by guerillas.

The same reason it's a 40 mile long snake in the first place--it's mud season. Going cross country isn't easy.

To defeat it they should take a page out of Finland's history books. They put some major hurt on the Russian army where they were hindered by forest instead of mud. Block the road with dropped trees, then kill the vehicles at the head of the column--fallen trees are a lot easier to remove than burned-out tanks. Repeat at the rear. Then you have the forces trapped, they can be harried and they'll be running out of supplies.

Mud won't make a useful roadblock, but they have Javelins that can be used to kill vehicles to block the road. Snipers and mortars can make life hell in a trap like that.

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that. In WW2 it was easier to sneak up on the enemy because there wasn't satellite surveillance or much more than human eyesight in planes either. Now Russia would see the Ukrainian troops coming a mile away.

 

[bilby]

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that.

There are plenty of trees between Kyiv and the Russian border; All the major roads in that area pass through patches of woodland.

 

[Keith&Co.]

What happened to Russia's Air Force?

Was there no plan because it was a bluff and when Putin got nothing, his pride took over? It seems like they are making it up as they go.

Coordination between air and ground forces takes a lot of prep. You don't need that much prep for a smash-and-grab.
If they knew this eould take this long, they'd have briefed land, air, sea forces, issued common code books, overlapping maps, phone numbers...
Whoops.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Putin seems unable to coordinate air power with its ground operations. Everyone expected the ground and air forces to act in unison as the U.S. has done over the years but this isn't easy to do. Putin's forces are fighting as separate armies. There is nothing even remotely resembling close air support. It doesn't appear that Putin is doing this intentionally.

 

[Elixir]

Not sure Ukraine has the manpower, weapons or even trees to do that.

There are plenty of trees between Kyiv and the Russian border; All the major roads in that area pass through patches of woodland.

And it wouldn't take a whole lot of standoff capability to paralyze a column of that size. If supply lines are at all intact and hardware is forthcoming, this could be a long month for Pootey.

 

[Copernicus]

Reuters has an article on the fact that Russia hasn't really been using much of its air superiority yet. They may be afraid of losing those expensive fighter jets and bombers. I'm the last one to know anything about military tactics or strategy, but the strategy seems to have been largely bluster backed up by a huge military force. When that didn't work, they went to plan B--actually invade. However, they didn't really overthink the logistics of moving all that equipment over long distances, especially as the ground thaws. The 40-mile armored column headed for Kyiv seems to still be stalled, with reported desertions, lack of food, and lack of fuel. What an embarrassing mess for Putin and the Russian military. OTOH, Ukrainian resolve and resilience has become legendary overnight. Even if the massive assault is incompetent, it is hard to believe that they can continue to hold out as their major cities are reduced to "ruble" by cowardly bombardment of civilian areas.

What happened to Russia's Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped