No, I’m responding to the very frequent accusation/supposition that someone was only admitted or hired in order to fill some non-existent quota. It’s right up there with the insistence that composite SAT scores are indicative or even good predictors of who will be more successful academically, even when the difference in scores is very small.
In the case of LB's appointment to Senate, Gavin Newsom most certainly appointed her based on a quota. He said so himself.
As the chart shows, those differences are far from being "very small".
GWB is a has been, and nobody would ever describe him as "brilliant". Why are you talking about him? What did the allegedly "brilliant" LB score?
My phone screwed up. I didn’t fix it.
Really? How different is a student who scored a 750 vs a student who scored a 775? Not very. How much does it matter the day after a student is offered and accepts a spot at a school. Not at all. Not even a teeny tiny bit.
This is all just ancedotal about you and your son regarding SAT scores and grades. No doubt there are many stories like this. But is this a solid trend over millions of test takers over decades? I sorta doubt it. I suspect its on the rare side.SATs are pure bullshit imo. Some people aren't good at taking standardized tests, while others are very good at it. And, as I think Toni has mentioned, parents with money often spend a lot to have their children tutored in how to improve their scores as well as taking the tests several times. One of the reasons I feel this way is because my son, who graduated with honors with a degree in computer science, and then went on to have a very successful, enjoyable career as a programmer/developer for the past 25 or so years, had incredibly low SAT scores. That kept him out of his first choice of colleges, despite already having a 2 year degree in computer science technology with excellent grades, along with some work experience in that field, but it didn't hold him back from accomplishing his career goals. He taught himself how to program using machine language as a teenager, despite not getting great grades in high school, so he obviously had talent in that area. He sure didn't get it from me, but to this day, he loves what he does. My scores weren't that great, but they were better than all of my straight A friends in high school and I never prepared for my SATs and I only took them once, unlike many of my smarter friends. I didn't care because I wan't trying to get into some highly competitive school.
My nursing board scores were very high, which was another type of standardized test. Nursing boards are now pass/fail, which is probably a good thing. My school trained us in how to take the nursing boards, by making all of our tests in the same format as the boards, and that probably helped most of us score high on the boards. Standardized test results, imo, should never be used as a way to judge one's potential success at college or in life. I'm happy to see so many schools do away with them. I'd rather have an applicant write an essay. Good writing skills are important in most professions. I'm not interested in arguing about it. I simply disagree with anyone who seems to think these tests are a measure of one's intelligence or ability to do well in college. And, I think it's even crazier to use them to judge someone who has been successful in their political career.
How did we get so off topic?
(which are my shortcomings). For me personally, when it comes to matters of life and death, doctors and nurses are a different story. I would be lying if I said it didn't matter to me whether the surgeon and his/her team operating on my brain had among the highest scores in academia or the lowest passing grades.
The SAT does not include any questions about medical science. Why should I care how good my surgeon was at memorizing random trivia about Math and English when they were 17? A solid fourth of American doctors are foreign born and never had to take SAT at all. I care more about their professional qualifications as an adult than how good they were at gaming their way through standardized exams as a child.This is all just ancedotal about you and your son regarding SAT scores and grades. No doubt there are many stories like this. But is this a solid trend over millions of test takers over decades? I sorta doubt it. I suspect its on the rare side.SATs are pure bullshit imo. Some people aren't good at taking standardized tests, while others are very good at it. And, as I think Toni has mentioned, parents with money often spend a lot to have their children tutored in how to improve their scores as well as taking the tests several times. One of the reasons I feel this way is because my son, who graduated with honors with a degree in computer science, and then went on to have a very successful, enjoyable career as a programmer/developer for the past 25 or so years, had incredibly low SAT scores. That kept him out of his first choice of colleges, despite already having a 2 year degree in computer science technology with excellent grades, along with some work experience in that field, but it didn't hold him back from accomplishing his career goals. He taught himself how to program using machine language as a teenager, despite not getting great grades in high school, so he obviously had talent in that area. He sure didn't get it from me, but to this day, he loves what he does. My scores weren't that great, but they were better than all of my straight A friends in high school and I never prepared for my SATs and I only took them once, unlike many of my smarter friends. I didn't care because I wan't trying to get into some highly competitive school.
My nursing board scores were very high, which was another type of standardized test. Nursing boards are now pass/fail, which is probably a good thing. My school trained us in how to take the nursing boards, by making all of our tests in the same format as the boards, and that probably helped most of us score high on the boards. Standardized test results, imo, should never be used as a way to judge one's potential success at college or in life. I'm happy to see so many schools do away with them. I'd rather have an applicant write an essay. Good writing skills are important in most professions. I'm not interested in arguing about it. I simply disagree with anyone who seems to think these tests are a measure of one's intelligence or ability to do well in college. And, I think it's even crazier to use them to judge someone who has been successful in their political career.
How did we get so off topic?
For lots of careers having the highest grades and SAT scores don't matter that much, including politicians. Things like being responsible, driven, organized, personable and logical are likely more important. As well as having good social skills and being able to put up with other people's bullshit
I never said the SAT does include questions about medical science. You misinterpreted what I wrote. I said I DO care about their scores in academia, meaning college and medical school which is where you learn about brains and such. I probably wasn't super clear about academia referring mostly to college (pre-med) and medical school, but it should have been obvious in the context. I am assuming there is generally a strong correlation between high SAT scores and high achievement in medical school, but its obviously not always going to be the case.The SAT does not include any questions about medical science. Why should I care how good my surgeon was at memorizing random trivia about Math and English when they were 17? A solid fourth of American doctors are foreign born and never had to take SAT at all. I care more about their professional qualifications as an adult than how good they were at gaming their way through standardized exams as a child.This is all just ancedotal about you and your son regarding SAT scores and grades. No doubt there are many stories like this. But is this a solid trend over millions of test takers over decades? I sorta doubt it. I suspect its on the rare side.SATs are pure bullshit imo. Some people aren't good at taking standardized tests, while others are very good at it. And, as I think Toni has mentioned, parents with money often spend a lot to have their children tutored in how to improve their scores as well as taking the tests several times. One of the reasons I feel this way is because my son, who graduated with honors with a degree in computer science, and then went on to have a very successful, enjoyable career as a programmer/developer for the past 25 or so years, had incredibly low SAT scores. That kept him out of his first choice of colleges, despite already having a 2 year degree in computer science technology with excellent grades, along with some work experience in that field, but it didn't hold him back from accomplishing his career goals. He taught himself how to program using machine language as a teenager, despite not getting great grades in high school, so he obviously had talent in that area. He sure didn't get it from me, but to this day, he loves what he does. My scores weren't that great, but they were better than all of my straight A friends in high school and I never prepared for my SATs and I only took them once, unlike many of my smarter friends. I didn't care because I wan't trying to get into some highly competitive school.
My nursing board scores were very high, which was another type of standardized test. Nursing boards are now pass/fail, which is probably a good thing. My school trained us in how to take the nursing boards, by making all of our tests in the same format as the boards, and that probably helped most of us score high on the boards. Standardized test results, imo, should never be used as a way to judge one's potential success at college or in life. I'm happy to see so many schools do away with them. I'd rather have an applicant write an essay. Good writing skills are important in most professions. I'm not interested in arguing about it. I simply disagree with anyone who seems to think these tests are a measure of one's intelligence or ability to do well in college. And, I think it's even crazier to use them to judge someone who has been successful in their political career.
How did we get so off topic?
For lots of careers having the highest grades and SAT scores don't matter that much, including politicians. Things like being responsible, driven, organized, personable and logical are likely more important. As well as having good social skills and being able to put up with other people's bullshit
You seem pretty responsible and driven, at least when it comes to your pets. You're obviously smart and have a good sense of humor, so what else does one need.
Sure, my examples are anecdotal but I've found it to be true about standardized tests in general and I have never seen any clear evidence that one's SAT scores equate with success. College is more about being motivated, having goals and being willing to study and learn.This is all just ancedotal about you and your son regarding SAT scores and grades. No doubt there are many stories like this. But is this a solid trend over millions of test takers over decades? I sorta doubt it. I suspect its on the rare side.SATs are pure bullshit imo. Some people aren't good at taking standardized tests, while others are very good at it. And, as I think Toni has mentioned, parents with money often spend a lot to have their children tutored in how to improve their scores as well as taking the tests several times. One of the reasons I feel this way is because my son, who graduated with honors with a degree in computer science, and then went on to have a very successful, enjoyable career as a programmer/developer for the past 25 or so years, had incredibly low SAT scores. That kept him out of his first choice of colleges, despite already having a 2 year degree in computer science technology with excellent grades, along with some work experience in that field, but it didn't hold him back from accomplishing his career goals. He taught himself how to program using machine language as a teenager, despite not getting great grades in high school, so he obviously had talent in that area. He sure didn't get it from me, but to this day, he loves what he does. My scores weren't that great, but they were better than all of my straight A friends in high school and I never prepared for my SATs and I only took them once, unlike many of my smarter friends. I didn't care because I wan't trying to get into some highly competitive school.
My nursing board scores were very high, which was another type of standardized test. Nursing boards are now pass/fail, which is probably a good thing. My school trained us in how to take the nursing boards, by making all of our tests in the same format as the boards, and that probably helped most of us score high on the boards. Standardized test results, imo, should never be used as a way to judge one's potential success at college or in life. I'm happy to see so many schools do away with them. I'd rather have an applicant write an essay. Good writing skills are important in most professions. I'm not interested in arguing about it. I simply disagree with anyone who seems to think these tests are a measure of one's intelligence or ability to do well in college. And, I think it's even crazier to use them to judge someone who has been successful in their political career.
How did we get so off topic?
For lots of careers having the highest grades and SAT scores don't matter that much, including politicians. Things like being responsible, driven, organized, personable and logical are likely more important. As well as having good social skills and being able to put up with other people's bullshit
My husband had high SAT scores and was accepted to a competitive school in Florida, where he partied too much and flunked out the first semester. He had no goals, career wise, and was being pushed to study medicine or dentistry by his family, which he had no interest in. He worked for a year or two and then went to the U of Miami, where he studied what he loved....engineering. He graduated with good grades and enjoyed a long career in engineering and sometimes IT, as companies pulled their plants offshore. I bullshitted my way through three years of liberal arts before finally deciding I needed a career that would allow me to be independent. Nursing was the most difficult thing I ever studied, but it gave me the knowledge and license to get a job whenever I wanted and to experience a stressful but interesting career for decades. Again, what do SAT scores have to do with anyone's success? I don't think I ever needed SAT scores to be accepted in a nursing program, which was very competitive at the time.
Meh. As a young man, I was irresponsible, lazy, disorganised, socially inept, and logical. My social skills were nonexistent, and I still today won't put up with other people's bullshit.
I understand that you didn't think about whether there was any logical connection between the SAT and one's experience in medicine. I just think you should have. The content of the exam has nothing to do with med school at all.
That would be nice. If there was one. But your SAT scores have nothing whatsoever to do with whether you are a good surgeon or not. There's nothing objective about it.
So you're worried about letting the "perfect be the enemy of the good", but imagining that a pimply teenager who gets 1455 on the SAT and thus is in consideration for Johns Hopkins is a fundamentally more capable person who scores 1445 on the SAT and thus has their application scrapped? Because they got one question "wrong" about the most important plot element in an excerpt from Tom Saywer, you wouldn't trust them to transplant your kidney?
But SATs are better than anything else being used in place of them. Everything else is easier to game and ends up even more related to socioeconomic status.
Actually, I think there's some value to the 775 over the 750. If you were only looking at what the SAT covers I would say it's basically moot--just like credit scores above 740 are basically moot.
Random trivia? It's been a long time since I took the SAT but I do not recall it being random trivia. The English part of it is a test of vocabulary and comprehension--something a doctor needs plenty of both. There's no fancy math on the SAT and in some cases doctors need to be able to handle math well. Most drugs have quite a bit of leeway to them and are close to one-size-fits-all in adults, but not all. Some are start on the low dose, raise to the desired effect. However, some are more finicky--doses must be calculated for the patient. (This is much more common in pediatrics.) A doc who can't do that shouldn't be a doc. Even when the computer does the calculations for you the doc needs to have enough of a sense of it to recognize a bad answer.
Quite possible with an inner city school. A decent student can end up at the top of the pack while they would be simply average in a good school.
