Scott Beierle, gunman in Tallahassee yoga studio shooting, had history of arrests for grabbing women

[Jimmy Higgins]

"We need to take mental illness more seriously in this country."

*5 minutes later*

"That guy is a nutjob!"

Why was nothing done? Anyone who claims to be "involuntarily celibate" should be treated as a hostile mentally ill person.

Curious, what is the clinical diagnosis?

I fail to see the problem. Do you have a point you wish to make? Are you agreeing mental health care is lacking in our country or are you satisfied with the level of mental health care?

Ask a shrink.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...201804/the-incel-involuntary-celibacy-problem

I’m saying it isn’t as simple as stamping someone ‘mentaly ill’. The gun hoarders love bringing up mental illness and also have a fear of government, yet seem to have no issue with the government having a ‘mental health list’ and using it to restrict access to weapons. That very well may be irony, especially if paranoia of government leading to wanting guns is considered dangerous mental behavior.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

There's those who are involuntarily celibate and then there's the nutjobs who run around whining about it.

Yeah. I would say the incel crowd is in nutter territory. They are nowhere near all the involuntary celibates, though.

If someone is screaming about being "involuntarily celibate", they're a nutter IMO. OTOH, I do agree that someone who hasn't had sex for awhile, not by choice, is not necessarily a nutter. It's like being a theist or atheist; most people mind their own business and no one elses. I couldn't tell you the religious beliefs, be they atheist or theist, of most of my coworkers since it's unprofessional to discuss such things. Anyone who does bring it up is not only being unprofessional, but probably a nutter just like those bringing up being an "incel".

 

[Max Rockatansky]

I fail to see the problem. Do you have a point you wish to make? Are you agreeing mental health care is lacking in our country or are you satisfied with the level of mental health care?

Ask a shrink.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...201804/the-incel-involuntary-celibacy-problem

Yup. That's the usual recipe for violence: Take something that is a substantial problem for a person (and involuntary celibacy is a big issue for it's victims) and blame some external factor. It's usually due to recruiters (this is the usual formula for recruiting suicide attackers) but sometimes a community (in this case the incels) can do it to themselves.

A good reason to legalize drugs, especially heroin and fentanyl. Tax it just enough to provide places for them to do it and both clean up crews and crematoriums (renewable energy resource??) and rehab centers for those who wish to clean themselves up. I'm against harming others, but if they want to do it to themselves, that's on them.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, the term incel generally refers to members of a particular community and not just the whole group of people who are involuntarily celebrate.

 

[WAB]

The term incel is nonsense. You can't be involuntarily celibate since celibacy means voluntarily abstinence.

We used to just say, "not gettin' any."

 

[Max Rockatansky]

The term incel is nonsense. You can't be involuntarily celibate since celibacy means voluntarily abstinence.

We used to just say, "not gettin' any."

It would help if they got a job and moved out of their parent's basement.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The term incel is nonsense. You can't be involuntarily celibate since celibacy means voluntarily abstinence.

We used to just say, "not gettin' any."

It would help if they got a job and moved out of their parent's basement.

I think it'd be hard to be an incel and not have gone out and tried. These aren't people that live in their basements and are never exposed to the sun, these are people that did try to go out and get dates. The trouble becomes when frustration mounts and they start taking lack of interest (of 'the right women') as insults which are stockpiled by these people into anger, distrust, hate, turn into loathing hate of the female species.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

The term incel is nonsense. You can't be involuntarily celibate since celibacy means voluntarily abstinence.

We used to just say, "not gettin' any."

It would help if they got a job and moved out of their parent's basement.

I think it'd be hard to be an incel and not have gone out and tried. These aren't people that live in their basements and are never exposed to the sun, these are people that did try to go out and get dates. The trouble becomes when frustration mounts and they start taking lack of interest (of 'the right women') as insults which are stockpiled by these people into anger, distrust, hate, turn into loathing hate of the female species.

In short, they're fucking nutjobs who would be pitied as pathetic if they weren't so violent as the link below notes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/raw-hatred-why-incel-movement-targets-terrorises-women
...calls its “raw hatred. It is vile. It is just incredibly unhinged and separate from reality and completely raw.” It has some crossover with white supremacism, in the sense that its adherents hang out in the same online spaces and share some of the same terminology, but it is quite distinctive in its hate figures: Stacys (attractive women); Chads (attractive men); and Normies (people who aren’t incels, ie can find partners but aren’t necessarily attractive). Basically, incels cannot get laid and they violently loathe anyone who can.

 

[WAB]

The term incel is nonsense. You can't be involuntarily celibate since celibacy means voluntarily abstinence.

We used to just say, "not gettin' any."

It would help if they got a job and moved out of their parent's basement.

I think it'd be hard to be an incel and not have gone out and tried. These aren't people that live in their basements and are never exposed to the sun, these are people that did try to go out and get dates. The trouble becomes when frustration mounts and they start taking lack of interest (of 'the right women') as insults which are stockpiled by these people into anger, distrust, hate, turn into loathing hate of the female species.

My objection was strictly technical.

I understand what it's like to go without sex, having gone without since 2005.

The difference between someone like me and others is that I'm not angry about not having sex for 13 years because I haven't really tried. Sex has never been on my list of priorities.

I can understand how constant rejection might twist someone up, but that's no excuse for hatred or violence against anyone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There's those who are involuntarily celibate and then there's the nutjobs who run around whining about it.

Yeah. I would say the incel crowd is in nutter territory. They are nowhere near all the involuntary celibates, though.

If someone is screaming about being "involuntarily celibate", they're a nutter IMO. OTOH, I do agree that someone who hasn't had sex for awhile, not by choice, is not necessarily a nutter. It's like being a theist or atheist; most people mind their own business and no one elses. I couldn't tell you the religious beliefs, be they atheist or theist, of most of my coworkers since it's unprofessional to discuss such things. Anyone who does bring it up is not only being unprofessional, but probably a nutter just like those bringing up being an "incel".

Somebody who complains about not being able to find sex isn't a nutter. The problem comes when they blame the other sex for this. If you can't find sex it's something about you, not something about everyone else.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

If someone is screaming about being "involuntarily celibate", they're a nutter IMO. OTOH, I do agree that someone who hasn't had sex for awhile, not by choice, is not necessarily a nutter. It's like being a theist or atheist; most people mind their own business and no one elses. I couldn't tell you the religious beliefs, be they atheist or theist, of most of my coworkers since it's unprofessional to discuss such things. Anyone who does bring it up is not only being unprofessional, but probably a nutter just like those bringing up being an "incel".

Somebody who complains about not being able to find sex isn't a nutter. The problem comes when they blame the other sex for this. If you can't find sex it's something about you, not something about everyone else.

True, they could just be a whiner. Agreed that blaming others makes it worse.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The term incel is nonsense. You can't be involuntarily celibate since celibacy means voluntarily abstinence.

We used to just say, "not gettin' any."

It's not nonsense. The distinction is between those who have chosen not to seek sex and those who want sex but are unable to find it. The former is a personal choice, the latter in time harms it's victims.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it'd be hard to be an incel and not have gone out and tried. These aren't people that live in their basements and are never exposed to the sun, these are people that did try to go out and get dates. The trouble becomes when frustration mounts and they start taking lack of interest (of 'the right women') as insults which are stockpiled by these people into anger, distrust, hate, turn into loathing hate of the female species.

In short, they're fucking nutjobs who would be pitied as pathetic if they weren't so violent as the link below notes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/raw-hatred-why-incel-movement-targets-terrorises-women
...calls its “raw hatred. It is vile. It is just incredibly unhinged and separate from reality and completely raw.” It has some crossover with white supremacism, in the sense that its adherents hang out in the same online spaces and share some of the same terminology, but it is quite distinctive in its hate figures: Stacys (attractive women); Chads (attractive men); and Normies (people who aren’t incels, ie can find partners but aren’t necessarily attractive). Basically, incels cannot get laid and they violently loathe anyone who can.

No, they loathe the ones that won't have sex with them.

 

[Toni]

It's not nonsense. The distinction is between those who have chosen not to seek sex and those who want sex but are unable to find it. The former is a personal choice, the latter in time harms it's victims.

- - - Updated - - -

In short, they're fucking nutjobs who would be pitied as pathetic if they weren't so violent as the link below notes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/raw-hatred-why-incel-movement-targets-terrorises-women
...calls its “raw hatred. It is vile. It is just incredibly unhinged and separate from reality and completely raw.” It has some crossover with white supremacism, in the sense that its adherents hang out in the same online spaces and share some of the same terminology, but it is quite distinctive in its hate figures: Stacys (attractive women); Chads (attractive men); and Normies (people who aren’t incels, ie can find partners but aren’t necessarily attractive). Basically, incels cannot get laid and they violently loathe anyone who can.

No, they loathe the ones that won't have sex with them.

From a biological standpoint, the harm would be identical whether the person wanted sex and couldn’t find a partner or whether they chose not to seek sex voluntarily

It’s too bad that those who want sex partners but aren’t able to find them don’t invest all those energy they invest in hate into something more useful and productive like improving social skills and grooming.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

It's not nonsense. The distinction is between those who have chosen not to seek sex and those who want sex but are unable to find it. The former is a personal choice, the latter in time harms it's victims.

- - - Updated - - -

In short, they're fucking nutjobs who would be pitied as pathetic if they weren't so violent as the link below notes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/raw-hatred-why-incel-movement-targets-terrorises-women
...calls its “raw hatred. It is vile. It is just incredibly unhinged and separate from reality and completely raw.” It has some crossover with white supremacism, in the sense that its adherents hang out in the same online spaces and share some of the same terminology, but it is quite distinctive in its hate figures: Stacys (attractive women); Chads (attractive men); and Normies (people who aren’t incels, ie can find partners but aren’t necessarily attractive). Basically, incels cannot get laid and they violently loathe anyone who can.

No, they loathe the ones that won't have sex with them.

From a biological standpoint, the harm would be identical whether the person wanted sex and couldn’t find a partner or whether they chose not to seek sex voluntarily

It’s too bad that those who want sex partners but aren’t able to find them don’t invest all those energy they invest in hate into something more useful and productive like improving social skills and grooming.

Excellent point and agreed. This could be said for a lot of haters, but is completely accurate on those who label themselves "Incels".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it'd be hard to be an incel and not have gone out and tried. These aren't people that live in their basements and are never exposed to the sun, these are people that did try to go out and get dates. The trouble becomes when frustration mounts and they start taking lack of interest (of 'the right women') as insults which are stockpiled by these people into anger, distrust, hate, turn into loathing hate of the female species.

My objection was strictly technical.

I understand what it's like to go without sex, having gone without since 2005.

The difference between someone like me and others is that I'm not angry about not having sex for 13 years because I haven't really tried. Sex has never been on my list of priorities.

I can understand how constant rejection might twist someone up, but that's no excuse for hatred or violence against anyone.

I understood your point. I was responding to Max's statement about basement losers. It completely misses the psychology of what is happening here.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not nonsense. The distinction is between those who have chosen not to seek sex and those who want sex but are unable to find it...

Within what they feel they are entitled to.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not nonsense. The distinction is between those who have chosen not to seek sex and those who want sex but are unable to find it. The former is a personal choice, the latter in time harms it's victims.

- - - Updated - - -

In short, they're fucking nutjobs who would be pitied as pathetic if they weren't so violent as the link below notes.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/raw-hatred-why-incel-movement-targets-terrorises-women
...calls its “raw hatred. It is vile. It is just incredibly unhinged and separate from reality and completely raw.” It has some crossover with white supremacism, in the sense that its adherents hang out in the same online spaces and share some of the same terminology, but it is quite distinctive in its hate figures: Stacys (attractive women); Chads (attractive men); and Normies (people who aren’t incels, ie can find partners but aren’t necessarily attractive). Basically, incels cannot get laid and they violently loathe anyone who can.

No, they loathe the ones that won't have sex with them.

From a biological standpoint, the harm would be identical whether the person wanted sex and couldn’t find a partner or whether they chose not to seek sex voluntarily

But the real harm is to one's mental health. That's what I was talking about. For a simple example, look how many priests end up molesters.

It’s too bad that those who want sex partners but aren’t able to find them don’t invest all those energy they invest in hate into something more useful and productive like improving social skills and grooming.

Not all the involuntary celibates have issues that can be fixed.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Somebody who complains about not being able to find sex isn't a nutter.

It's not just complaining about not finding sex. It's basing your self-esteem/the value of life on whether or not you find sex. That's nutty.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Somebody who complains about not being able to find sex isn't a nutter.

It's not just complaining about not finding sex. It's basing your self-esteem/the value of life on whether or not you find sex. That's nutty.

....and violently hating those who are either having sex or won't give them sex.

 

[marc]

It’s too bad that those who want sex partners but aren’t able to find them don’t invest all those energy they invest in hate into something more useful and productive like improving social skills and grooming.

Incel seems to be distilled toxic masculinity. From what I've seen some do focus on grooming, but in the idea they need to be super buff, (which makes me wonder how much steroid use is involved with these guys) and get mad when ladies don't appreciate how hard they workout. Social skills is not a priority if they even think of them.

 

[RavenSky]

The man who shot and killed two women at a yoga studio in Tallahassee, Florida, on Friday before killing himself was a far-right extremist and self-proclaimed misogynist who railed against women, black people, and immigrants in a series of online videos and songs.

On a YouTube channel in 2014, Beierle filmed several videos of himself offering extremely racist and misogynistic opinions, in which he called women “sluts” and “whores,” and lamented “the collective treachery” of girls he had gone to high school with.

“There are whores in — not only every city, not only every town, but every village,” he said, referring to women in interracial relationships, whom he said had betrayed “their blood.”

This is the second deadly attack this year in which [Elliot] Rodger has been mentioned by the suspected assailant.

[Scott Beierle] also mentioned a girl who canceled dates on him. “I could have ripped her head off,” he said.

Shortly before Friday’s shooting, he uploaded one song called “Fuck ’Em All,” with the lyrics: “To hell with the boss that won’t get off my back / To hell with the girl I can’t get in the sack.”

Another song, called “Nobody’s Type,” featured him lamenting that women didn’t find him attractive. “I’m no athletic shark. I’m not a physical specimen. I don’t win the trophies and medals. Nobody stands in awe of me,” he sang.

In “American Wigger,” he sang that he would “blow off” the head of a woman he referred to using the c-word. The song “Locked in My Basement” featured an extremely disturbing tale of Beierle holding a woman prisoner in his basement using chains so he can rape her.

Other songs were entitled “Who Let the Fags Out?” and “Bring Your Fatwa.”

Beierle’s political affiliations were not immediately clear, but he was highly critical of the Obama administration in his 2014 videos. In one video, he said that he resented having to subsidize as a taxpayer “the casual sex lives of slutty girls” through the Affordable Care Act’s contraception provisions. In the same video, he also criticized “the invasion of Central American children” in the US that year and said the migrants seeking asylum should be deported on barges.

In a punk song he made called “Don’t Shame,” Beierle sang of walking into a girl’s locker room and going on an “ass-grabbing rampage of underage girls.” He also spoke about grabbing women in the song “Handful of Bare Ass.”

“I am pro-death,” the song continued. “The more that die the merrier.”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...e-yoga-shooter-incel-far-right-misogyny-video

So we talk about mental health being an issue in too many of these rampage shootings, and people here are talking about "incels" being "nutters" like that is some sort of blanket psychological diagnosis...

Yet Scott Beierle (just like the majority of rampage shooters) was able to legally buy arsenals of guns.

So who here is in favor of a complete mental health assessment before someone is allowed to buy a gun?