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Sexual faithfullnes

Well obviously. To think we have any conscious control over sexuality and mating would be delusional. Of course it's 100% instinct.

If it's 100% instinct, I wish someone could explain the instinct to dress up as furry animals.

For the same reason there's an Australian beetle who'd rather shag a beer bottle than any lady beetles. The way sexuality works in the animal kingdom (and therefore also for humans) is that certain extremely specific markers are coded for. When these are present it leads to a sexual reaction. These are sorted into patterns or strict progressions. Each step of the way genetically coded for and requires it's specific marker. These are among the most fundamental genetic programmings that exist for any species. To think that it wouldn't apply for humans is well... let's call it an uphill battle to argue for. You're going to need some extremely strong evidence (that we haven't found yet) to argue against this.

Since we're a social species, many of the sexual markers that we look for are behavioural. This is also true in all the other primates. Yet another strong piece of evidence that is also applies to us.

As far as the data indicates, humans are the only animal to indulge in sexual fetishes and other behavior which is sexual, but definitely non-procreative.

Well... duh. It should be obvious. From the mere fact that humans are at all capable of having sex at other times than when the woman can become pregnant we can draw conclusions. The most obvious is that humans have sex for other reasons than procreation. We have sex to form emotional bonds. That's the one of the main functions of human sex. Procreation being the other. We also know this because the other higher primates are very similar. Gorillas being the main exception who only have sex when the lady gorilla can get pregnant.

As a social species sex is about forming emotional bonds. Compare it to dancing, another instinct we've got. Dancing is about partnership. It's about finding a common pattern of movement and having the bodies and minds in perfect synch. Ever see Salsa dancers on the floor? Hot as hell. Fetishes are the same way. Two people bond over a common sexual weirdness. It evolves evolutionary. Over time these behaviours get wierder and wierder. But when we were hunter gatherers the evolution of these kinds of behaviours couldn't really go very far. And fetishes are always about things in our midst. It's about sexualising common objects. Before the rise of pornography statue fetish was common. People would fall in love with erotic statues. That disappeared when porn came.

Even though sex is the meeting between minds. It's really all happening in just one mind... yours. The other person is just there to trigger various sexual instincts. Sex is fundamentally solipsistic. We're letting another into our solipsism. So even though the sexual urge is to bring people together. And does work to do that. That's just a side effect of your own minds selfish sexual urge. Our intelligent symbolic minds can quite easily completely cut out the other partner and replace it only by mechanical triggerings of our sexual instincts. And we don't need all that much either. Just like those Austrialian beetles. The fact that we can enjoy porn at all is a failure of evolution. Or we can put on furry suits. Not sure what instinct that triggers. But who am I to judge? It's obviously getting people off. So I just call that something I've left to learn.

Humans aren't capable of unnatural sexual acts. If people do something that gets them off sexually we need to work that into our model of explanation. Just saying that people shouldn't doesn't explain shit.
 
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morality has a rational place where its actually just biochemistry and evolution.

The punchline.

People need some sympathetic and empathetic tendencies when reproduction takes committing energy to your child for two decades thereabouts.

Only tendencies, and tendencies toward compassion, though, I don't think this would cover the entire range of behaviour with moral implications.
 
What is it about sexual faithfulness? Lying to yourself about how great your partner is, feeling the touches again and again, reifying memories, or is it just some feeling.

I concluded its just a feeling.

Got me thinking about things like evolution of autonomic nervous system, fighting fish waggle dances, design being blown all to smithereens when scientists found some sympathetic innervation switched from cholinergic to adrenergic in mammals better defining the function of sympathetic and parasympathetic aspect of the autonomic NS function based of effects. Another factor of autonomic evolution is the trend from action to inhibition across phyla, and within a being, across age.

Of course this wandering has to go somewhere. Well is signals to me that feelings of love and fidelity are actually wired into us to a large extent with the cerebrum arbitrating or being arbitrated by the tendencies of ANS described above.

For instance, Underseer as a teenager held one view, but now, as a practiced adult, he has another. It may be that this change from experimenting to considering was inevitable due to his gaming function having become more cautious simply because cholinergic effects were now dominant. Putting this into words isn't either poetic or satisfying. So, perhaps, God is invented and morality has a rational place where its actually just biochemistry and evolution.

My position didn't change so much as I found out what it really was through evidence.

And god isn't moral. Never was. Theists use specious moral claims to get people to be afraid of questioning the religion. I think the idea that everyone should be monogamous is outdated, but there decision should be up to individuals. What is right for one person may not be right for another.

I disagree that your position didn't change appropriately predicted by age and maturity of decision making algorithms. We disagree on man-God models so I'll just leave it at that.
 
If it's 100% instinct, I wish someone could explain the instinct to dress up as furry animals. As far as the data indicates, humans are the only animal to indulge in sexual fetishes and other behavior which is sexual, but definitely non-procreative.

It isn't instinct and I didn't argue it was. I shan't satisfy your wish since its irrelevant. Never read about homosexual rape in insects and other species? Or have you never watched birds after pairing exhibit what a poet might call sheer joy of being paired in flight or geese who carry out a mating ritual only to be rejected? Humans aren't even vaguely unique in these areas.
 
morality has a rational place where its actually just biochemistry and evolution.

The punchline.

People need some sympathetic and empathetic tendencies when reproduction takes committing energy to your child for two decades thereabouts.

Only tendencies, and tendencies toward compassion, though, I don't think this would cover the entire range of behaviour with moral implications.

You do your darned-ness to put into consciousness theory rationalizing words what I wrote without having to mention consciousness at all.

Think of it this way, we approach, we withdraw. Systems evolved that promoted how and when these activities took place. So approaching became intentional seeking and withdrawing became intentional withdrawing. Start there and go on to reproduction, task performing etc. thinking similarly. Shouldn't be too hard to re-code consciousness and rationalizations into operations and processes which all evolved. There need b e no Freud recasting into a other than physical theory the evolution of beings in biology.
 
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If it's 100% instinct, I wish someone could explain the instinct to dress up as furry animals. As far as the data indicates, humans are the only animal to indulge in sexual fetishes and other behavior which is sexual, but definitely non-procreative.

It isn't instinct and I didn't argue it was. I shan't satisfy your wish since its irrelevant. Never read about homosexual rape in insects and other species? Or have you never watched birds after pairing exhibit what a poet might call sheer joy of being paired in flight or geese who carry out a mating ritual only to be rejected? Humans aren't even vaguely unique in these areas.

I suppose dogs think their collars are sexy.
 
Well obviously. To think we have any conscious control over sexuality and mating would be delusional. Of course it's 100% instinct.

If it's 100% instinct, I wish someone could explain the instinct to dress up as furry animals. As far as the data indicates, humans are the only animal to indulge in sexual fetishes and other behavior which is sexual, but definitely non-procreative.
I've seen sea otters masturbate.
 
If it's 100% instinct, I wish someone could explain the instinct to dress up as furry animals. As far as the data indicates, humans are the only animal to indulge in sexual fetishes and other behavior which is sexual, but definitely non-procreative.
I've seen sea otters masturbate.

Maybe they do it to get to the otter side?
 
The punchline.

People need some sympathetic and empathetic tendencies when reproduction takes committing energy to your child for two decades thereabouts.

Only tendencies, and tendencies toward compassion, though, I don't think this would cover the entire range of behaviour with moral implications.

You do your darned-ness to put into consciousness theory rationalizing words what I wrote without having to mention consciousness at all.

Think of it this way, we approach, we withdraw. Systems evolved that promoted how and when these activities took place. So approaching became intentional seeking and withdrawing became intentional withdrawing. Start there and go on to reproduction, task performing etc. thinking similarly. Shouldn't be too hard to re-code consciousness and rationalizations into operations and processes which all evolved. There need b e no Freud recasting into a other than physical theory the evolution of beings in biology.
Hey pal I didn't mention consciousness either. I'm pretty sure I understand your point.
 
Humans aren't even vaguely unique in these areas.

I suppose dogs think their collars are sexy.

I'm pretty sure a being guided by sense of smell would think more in terms of scent and fragrance. Dogs do do what teen boys do though, have orgasmic dreams. So maybe sexy, yes, unless they were constrained by them where I guess they'd think their collars repressive.
 
If it's 100% instinct, I wish someone could explain the instinct to dress up as furry animals. As far as the data indicates, humans are the only animal to indulge in sexual fetishes and other behavior which is sexual, but definitely non-procreative.
I've seen sea otters masturbate.

Do you think otters would notice you masturbating? That's the difference.
 
People need some sympathetic and empathetic tendencies when reproduction takes committing energy to your child for two decades thereabouts.

Only tendencies, and tendencies toward compassion, though, I don't think this would cover the entire range of behaviour with moral implications.

You do your darned-ness to put into consciousness theory rationalizing words what I wrote without having to mention consciousness at all.
Hey pal I didn't mention consciousness either. I'm pretty sure I understand your point.

Thank you for your friendship (pal). I guess I mistook the bolded text as clearly implying a conscious agent?
 
You do your darned-ness to put into consciousness theory rationalizing words what I wrote without having to mention consciousness at all.
Hey pal I didn't mention consciousness either. I'm pretty sure I understand your point.

Thank you for your friendship (pal). I guess I mistook the bolded text as clearly implying a conscious agent?

Not my original intention to express the lack of an agent but I think that'd work.

What's a conscious agent?
 
Are you kidding? Do you actually think dogs make videos?

Dogs can't see TV because of the screen refresh rate. but hey, getting laid is getting laid amirite?

According to the latest research, video technology has advanced to the point where dogs can see the moving images, but not with the colors we see. They think they're looking out a dirty window and wonder why the humans don't do something about it.
 
Dogs can't see TV because of the screen refresh rate. but hey, getting laid is getting laid amirite?

According to the latest research, video technology has advanced to the point where dogs can see the moving images, but not with the colors we see. They think they're looking out a dirty window and wonder why the humans don't do something about it.

Are you kidding? Whenever I clean the windows around here, the dogs have them filthy again in seconds. You can tell how tall our dogs are by the heights of the bands of filth on the sliding glass doors.
 
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