Sexual violence epidemic

[dismal]

It turns out to be much more common than many of us thought:

Sexual violence
Examples of sexual violence include: discounting the partner's feelings regarding sex; criticizing the partner sexually; touching the partner sexually in inappropriate and uncomfortable ways; withholding sex and affection; always demanding sex; forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people; and using objects and/or weapons to hurt during sex or threats to back up demands for sex.

http://hr.umich.edu/stopabuse/resources/definitions.html

Most of the married men in America are now victims.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Wait. Having sex with other people counts as sexual violence? I can see that if you lay your girlfriend ontop of your wife and have sex with her, that could qualify but otherwise I don't think it should be on the list.

 

[KeepTalking]

to participate in uncomfortable sex

You mean like in the back seat of a VW?

 

[doubtingt]

Wow. Glaring example of how victim advocacy activists efforts to inflate the problem via absurdly broad definitions actually winds up harming efforts to help real victims.

 

[KeepTalking]

You mean like in the back seat of a VW?

Wow. Glaring example of how victim advocacy activists efforts to inflate the problem via absurdly broad definitions actually winds up efforts to help real victims.

It was a reference to the movie Mallrats:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc7_NEinAjI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[dismal]

Wait. Having sex with other people counts as sexual violence?

Also, not having sex with people.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Maybe they should just list things that aren't sexual violence instead. It might make for an easier list.

 

[PyramidHead]

I don't see much to be outraged about here. All of the items on the list are, to some degree or another, examples of "using sex as a weapon." Maybe not all of them should be called violence, and certainly some of them aren't the business of a college, but otherwise it seems like a pretty sensible list.

Wait. Having sex with other people counts as sexual violence? I can see that if you lay your girlfriend ontop of your wife and have sex with her, that could qualify but otherwise I don't think it should be on the list.

In context, the "to have sex with other people" is a clause that follows "forcing partner to". So, forcing someone to have sex with other people is not okay. It's awkwardly phrased.

Most of the married men in America are now victims.

That's probably true.

 

[barbos]

I think idea was to make men and women more equal in terms of sexual violence statistics. So they inflated sexual violence statistics for women.

 

[Bronzeage]

It turns out to be much more common than many of us thought:

Sexual violence
Examples of sexual violence include: discounting the partner's feelings regarding sex; criticizing the partner sexually; touching the partner sexually in inappropriate and uncomfortable ways; withholding sex and affection; always demanding sex; forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people; and using objects and/or weapons to hurt during sex or threats to back up demands for sex.

http://hr.umich.edu/stopabuse/resources/definitions.html

Most of the married men in America are now victims.

That would certainly explain a lot of things.

Other than the "discounting the partner's feelings regarding sex; criticizing the partner sexually," and "withholding sex and affection," do the other things on the list qualify as "sexual violence"?


It's easy to take a couple of phrases from a page, which support one's views, and present them as evidence of something. I'm not quite of what it proves, but there it is. Violence, like most other human actions, takes place on a scale. There is mild violence and there is extreme violence. As usual, the argument is over where the scale begins. Some people think it is violent to raise ones voice, others say there can be no violence without physical contact. Some say the threat of violence is violence, enough.

The purpose of the linked page was not to pack two of the milder forms of violence into an overstuffed box. This page gives a succinct list of actions which are abusive. The reason a list such as this is needed is because abuse can seem like normal behavior to both the abuser and the abused.

More enlightened minds can step in and say something like, "pushing, shoving, pulling, shaking, slapping, biting, hitting, punching, kicking, strangling, throwing objects at partner, restraining, throwing the partner, use of weapons at hand like a frying pan or broom, or use of conventional weapons such as a gun or knife, are forms of violence and no one should suffer such treatment." As hard as it is to believe, there are some people who think things like this are normal.

Less enlightened minds will pick out a few words and say, "See, I told you, so."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Wow. Glaring example of how victim advocacy activists efforts to inflate the problem via absurdly broad definitions actually winds up harming efforts to help real victims.

Yup. That's what some of us have been saying for ages.

It's the same thing we see with other social issues:

1) Make a sweeping definition of the problem that includes far more than the real issue.

2) Do something about the minor cases that you swept up.

3) Crow about how much you reduced the problem.

Never mind that the real problem wasn't touched.

You also see the related pattern:

2) Do something about the real problem.

3) Be criticized as ineffective because of how little you reduced the problem.

(An example of the latter is the uninsurable. We see the free clinics closing left and right because the real victims were able to get insurance and thus get proper healthcare. Obamacare has done nothing for those who choose to be uninsured, nor has it done anything for the illegals that were counted as part of the uninsured population.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't see much to be outraged about here. All of the items on the list are, to some degree or another, examples of "using sex as a weapon." Maybe not all of them should be called violence, and certainly some of them aren't the business of a college, but otherwise it seems like a pretty sensible list.

The problem is that some of these are relationship issues, not by any stretch of the imagination are they sexual violence. If they're all prohibited:

You can't attempt to work out a sexual problem in the relationship.

Furthermore, some of them bring up worse problems.

Can't withhold sex and affection? So you're supposed to have sex with the person that you're furious with??

Can't criticize them sexually? So you can't attempt to solve any sexual problem? If she uses her teeth during a BJ all you can do is break up with her? (Any other course of action is either criticizing them sexually or uncomfortable sex.)

 

[Bronzeage]

I don't see much to be outraged about here. All of the items on the list are, to some degree or another, examples of "using sex as a weapon." Maybe not all of them should be called violence, and certainly some of them aren't the business of a college, but otherwise it seems like a pretty sensible list.

The problem is that some of these are relationship issues, not by any stretch of the imagination are they sexual violence. If they're all prohibited:

You can't attempt to work out a sexual problem in the relationship.

Furthermore, some of them bring up worse problems.

Can't withhold sex and affection? So you're supposed to have sex with the person that you're furious with??

Can't criticize them sexually? So you can't attempt to solve any sexual problem? If she uses her teeth during a BJ all you can do is break up with her? (Any other course of action is either criticizing them sexually or uncomfortable sex.)

Some are actually illegal and some are just impolite. All of them can be taken out of context.

 

[PyramidHead]

I don't see much to be outraged about here. All of the items on the list are, to some degree or another, examples of "using sex as a weapon." Maybe not all of them should be called violence, and certainly some of them aren't the business of a college, but otherwise it seems like a pretty sensible list.

The problem is that some of these are relationship issues, not by any stretch of the imagination are they sexual violence. If they're all prohibited:

You can't attempt to work out a sexual problem in the relationship.

Furthermore, some of them bring up worse problems.

Can't withhold sex and affection? So you're supposed to have sex with the person that you're furious with??

Can't criticize them sexually? So you can't attempt to solve any sexual problem? If she uses her teeth during a BJ all you can do is break up with her? (Any other course of action is either criticizing them sexually or uncomfortable sex.)

It's not hard to imagine situations where withholding sex or criticizing somebody sexually would be abusive, and those are likely the situations intended to be covered by that list, not the ones on the other end of the spectrum. It's not a legal document, just a website that needs to be edited for clarity.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

In context, the "to have sex with other people" is a clause that follows "forcing partner to". So, forcing someone to have sex with other people is not okay. It's awkwardly phrased.

OK, fair enough. I withdraw the point. They should, however, put together a section on what constitutes grammatical violence, because that is a horribly phrased sentence.

 

[doubtingt]

The problem is that some of these are relationship issues, not by any stretch of the imagination are they sexual violence. If they're all prohibited:

You can't attempt to work out a sexual problem in the relationship.

Furthermore, some of them bring up worse problems.

Can't withhold sex and affection? So you're supposed to have sex with the person that you're furious with??

Can't criticize them sexually? So you can't attempt to solve any sexual problem? If she uses her teeth during a BJ all you can do is break up with her? (Any other course of action is either criticizing them sexually or uncomfortable sex.)

It's not hard to imagine situations where withholding sex or criticizing somebody sexually would be abusive, and those are likely the situations intended to be covered by that list, not the ones on the other end of the spectrum. It's not a legal document, just a website that needs to be edited for clarity.

Then they should add "talking about one's day prior to sex" because it isn't hard to imagine how that (or any and all possible human actions) could be done in a manner that would be abusive. Listing general acts that are usually not abusive but could possibly be under narrow specific contexts (and even then not "violence" or in any way illegal) along side of acts that are always by definition abusive, violence, and criminal is absurdly, moronically reckless, and does real harm to goal of preventing and treating real abuse and violence.

 

[dismal]

Less enlightened minds will pick out a few words and say, "See, I told you, so."

I feel like you're discounting my feelings and being critical.

Stop the violence.

 

[Underseer]

[...]

More enlightened minds can step in and say something like, "pushing, shoving, pulling, shaking, slapping, biting, hitting, punching, kicking, strangling, throwing objects at partner, restraining, throwing the partner, use of weapons at hand like a frying pan or broom, or use of conventional weapons such as a gun or knife, are forms of violence and no one should suffer such treatment." As hard as it is to believe, there are some people who think things like this are normal.

Less enlightened minds will pick out a few words and say, "See, I told you, so."

Pushing does not count as violence, therefore your entire list is absurd, therefore anyone who complains about people who commit acts of violence in a relationship is persecuting people who commit acts of violence in relationships!

 

[Emily Lake]

Wait. Having sex with other people counts as sexual violence? I can see that if you lay your girlfriend ontop of your wife and have sex with her, that could qualify but otherwise I don't think it should be on the list.

Semicolons denote sublists. It's actually "Forcing partner... to have sex with other people"

forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people;

ETA: This was already clarified, so I apologize for being repetitive.

Examples of sexual violence include:

• discounting the partner's feelings regarding sex;
• criticizing the partner sexually;
• touching the partner sexually in inappropriate and uncomfortable ways;
• withholding sex and affection;
• always demanding sex;
• forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people;
• and using objects and/or weapons to hurt during sex or threats to back up demands for sex.

I think that not all of those in a vacuum would necessarily represent violence... just as pinching or slapping in a vacuum may not represent violence - to some it's merely foreplay, to some it's wrestling and is perfectly acceptable within the bounds of their relationship. But to others, it's not acceptable. These also are things that could be taken too far, and could be used abusively.

Discounting a partner's feelings about sex seems pretty straightforward, as does touching them in uncomfortable or inappropriate ways. A nipple tweak in public is probably not okay. Giving feedback on what works best in the bedroom isn't necessarily the same thing as criticizing someone sexually. Imagine calling one's partner a whore or tiny-tittle slut, or "no use except as a cunt" (I actually heard someone refer to their girlfriend that way once), or constantly disparaging the size or girth of your partner's penis, especially in ways that embarrass or shame them.

Always demanding sex seems pretty abusive to all of us, I think... but withholding sex and affection as a means to control and hurt another person could be just as bad. We can all recall Lysistrata, I'm sure... but I did know a woman whose spouse refused to kiss or hug or cuddle her, who never showed her tenderness or affection... except for immediately after she performed oral sex or allowed him to indulge in anal sex with her - neither of which she enjoyed. He wouldn't have regular old vaginal sex with her unless she first serviced him in other ways. He used her need for tenderness and affection as a weapon.

I think the last two, read in a bulleted form rather than the awkward nested list form, are fairly self explanatory.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Semicolons denote sublists. It's actually "Forcing partner... to have sex with other people"

forcing partner to strip as a form of humiliation (maybe in front of children), to witness sexual acts, to participate in uncomfortable sex or sex after an episode of violence, to have sex with other people;

Ya, you're about five posts too late. We've already scorned them for their poor grammer.