So Bibi Wants To Begin The "Final Solution."

[Derec]

I think it's funny that the most virulent, unapologetic racist

You mean yourself?

 

[Derec]

Please quote the relevant part of the UN document.

From the horse's mouth:

Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”

Slightly less than 2 years actually.

 

[marc]

And any actual evidence for that assertion? And are you denying the religious violence in European history, such as the inquisition, crusades, 30 years war, persecution of ‘witches’ etc?

Those were 100s of years ago. Shiites and Sunnis are suicide bombing each other's mosques on the regular here and now.

IRA was not that one ago.

 

[Derec]

 Palestine (region) - Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn
So they did p > f, not p > b.

I know. But in general they tend to confuse p and b and Balestinian sounds funnier. Like National Bocialists. Fits because their leadership is a bunch of Nazis.

 

[Derec]

Those were 100s of years ago. Shiites and Sunnis are suicide bombing each other's mosques on the regular here and now.

IRA was not that one ago.

Compared to the likes of Al Qaeda or ISIS (Sunni) and Hezbollah or Houthis (Shiite), IRA are boy scouts.

 

[Derec]

I believe that you think that. It fits with my hypothesis of invincible right-wing ignorance.

I do not see why that is so inconceivable. Also, I am not "right-wing".

 

[Arctish]

So you're disputing the right of the indigenous people of Palestine to live there based on your beliefs about their religious beliefs and that of their parents/ancestors.

"Indigenous" meaning, in the definition used by UNRWA, having lived in what is now Israel for two years between 1946-1948. If say an Egyptian family from Cairo moved to Haifa in 1946 and fled back in 1948, their descendants (including adopted children) count as perpetual "Palestinian refugees" who demand a "right of return".

It's a scam.

Please quote the relevant part of the UN document.

From the horse's mouth:

Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”

Slightly less than 2 years actually.

That's not the definition of indigenous the UN uses, which can be found in its Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

That bit of text you posted comes from an entirely different document, UN Resolution 302, which was specifically addressing the needs of Palestinians made refugees during the creation of the State of Israel. Resolution 302 identifies the people it's designed to help by both location and timeframe. It doesn't say what you think it says.

 

[angelo]

Some even believe it's the Jews who brought down the Twin Towers and most other deadly islamic attacks in the Western World so as to exonerate their own failings.

Well ain't that turrable! Some Murkins b'leave George Soros is financing terrorist caravans, Hillary operates a child sex trafficking ring out of a pizza shop and 5000 muslims in New Jersey celebrated the twin towers coming down.
Some idiots even believe anthropogenic climate change is a hoax.

5000 muzzies in New Jersey may not have celebrated the twin towers coming down, but hundreds of thousands of muzzies in the Middle East did!

 

[Elixir]

Some even believe it's the Jews who brought down the Twin Towers and most other deadly islamic attacks in the Western World so as to exonerate their own failings.

Well ain't that turrable! Some Murkins b'leave George Soros is financing terrorist caravans, Hillary operates a child sex trafficking ring out of a pizza shop and 5000 muslims in New Jersey celebrated the twin towers coming down.
Some idiots even believe anthropogenic climate change is a hoax.

5000 muzzies in New Jersey may not have celebrated the twin towers coming down, but hundreds of thousands of muzzies in the Middle East did!

Yeah and millions of morons celebrated the murderous mob of Nazis in Charlotte.
Other than identifying with them, what's your point?

 

[Elixir]

I am not "right-wing".

Skunk cabbage by any other name is still skunk cabbage

 

[Derec]

Skunk cabbage by any other name is still skunk cabbage

The Amerindian medicinal plant? I think you may be losing the plot.

 

[Derec]

That's not the definition of indigenous the UN uses, which can be found in its Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

UN uses different definitions for Palestinians though. Palestinians are also the only people whose refugee status can be inherited in perpetuity.

It doesn't say what you think it says.

It does. The "Palestinian refugees" we are talking about today are determined based on the definition I posted, including the requirement of only a two year residence. UNRWA is still in effect after all, using that same definition. That's why it's on their website.

 

[Arctish]

That's not the definition of indigenous the UN uses, which can be found in its Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

UN uses different definitions for Palestinians though. Palestinians are also the only people whose refugee status can be inherited in perpetuity.

It doesn't say what you think it says.

It does. The "Palestinian refugees" we are talking about today are determined based on the definition I posted, including the requirement of only a two year residence. UNRWA is still in effect after all, using that same definition. That's why it's on their website.

angelo and I were talking about the indigenous people of Palestine, and you jumped in with a ridiculous assertion about the UN defining 'indigenous' as someone who lived in a place for less than 2 years.

Either you see the error you made when you used wording that describes the refugees UN Resolution 302 was intended to help as a substitute for 'indigenous', or you really don't understand how categories work.

Also, I suspect that once again you used a mined quote you found somewhere and didn't bother to check it for accuracy or context, with predictable results.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except that's not reality, as you damn well know but like to pretend you don't.

Zionists expelled Palestinians from the villages and properties they had planned to claim for the Jewish state since the 1930s, regardless of the UN Partition Plan and regardless of whether the people in them fought back or not. They prioritized Palestinians living in some areas and left others in place temporarily, or displaced them internally. The expulsions continued into the 1950s, years after the fighting died down.

You claim it's not reality but you don't present any adequate evidence of this.

Loren says that Israel would drop nuclear weapons on Beirut, Damascus, and Amman before it would allow those refugees back to their homes. But we're supposed to think Muslims are the ones whose religious bigotry is a problem.

Because allowing them back home is suicide. They're just Jews, though, not people, so what difference does that make?

And there you have it, folks: mass murder and genocide tarted up as self-defense. I think it's Chapter 2 of the Racist & Religious Bigot Playbook.

I wonder if the Palestinians had marched with tiki torches chanting "Jews will not replace us!", Loren and angelo would see that there were good people on both sides.

It is the Palestinians that are marching with the tiki torches--that's what the whole fight is about. They can't accept non-Muslims on Muslim-conquered land.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How many of those conflicts are explicitly about religious reasons? Virtually all of the Muslim ones are.

And any actual evidence for that assertion? And are you denying the religious violence in European history, such as the inquisition, crusades, 30 years war, persecution of ‘witches’ etc?

I'm talking about modern times. Pre-reformation Christianity was about as evil as modern day Islam.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Tell that to Loren. He says they will, and they'll use nuclear weapons to do it.
Seriously, Derec, tell that to Loren. He might listen to you.

Care to quote him on that?

She's taking it out of context.

What I said is that for Israel to bring peace would either require it to cease to exist and the Jews flee, or it would require a nuclear laydown on the governments sponsoring the fighting there. To those who actually value human life the status quo is vastly superior to either of these options.

Furthermore, if Israel were pushed to the wall they would use their bombs rather than die. That's why the current situation is low level terrorism rather than yet another invasion.

It's no different than the cold war, the presence of the missiles on both sides has kept it down to proxy conflicts rather than WWIII. Our bombs are ok, though, because we are real people, unlike the Jews.

 

[Arctish]

You claim it's not reality but you don't present any adequate evidence of this.

I have, on numerous occasions.

If I post those articles about the Transfer Committee of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, or Ben Gurion's writings, or Dayan admitting that Palestinian villages were emptied and razed according plan, or the work of Jewish historians like Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris, or the history of ethnic cleansing in Ashkelon, will you read them this time?

 

[repoman]

You claim it's not reality but you don't present any adequate evidence of this.

I have, on numerous occasions.

If I post those articles about the Transfer Committee of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, or Ben Gurion's writings, or Dayan admitting that Palestinian villages were emptied and razed according plan, or the work of Jewish historians like Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris, or the history of ethnic cleansing in Ashkelon, will you read them this time?

Man, I am jealous that they got a homeland for themselves. Good Job!

 

[Arctish]

Tell that to Loren. He says they will, and they'll use nuclear weapons to do it.
Seriously, Derec, tell that to Loren. He might listen to you.

Care to quote him on that?

She's taking it out of context.

What I said is that for Israel to bring peace would either require it to cease to exist and the Jews flee, or it would require a nuclear laydown on the governments sponsoring the fighting there.

That's what I said you said. Here's the exchange again:

Netanyahu hasn't yet reached the point of implementing the Final Solution.

And never will. That is vile antisemitic slander!

Tell that to Loren. He says they will, and they'll use nuclear weapons to do it.

Seriously, Derec, tell that to Loren. He might listen to you.

And here you are affirming that my summation was accurate:

Furthermore, if Israel were pushed to the wall they would use their bombs rather than die.

By 'die' you mean the refugees returning to their former homes. That's the mass murder and genocide tarted up as self-defense I was talking about, the exact same justification the Nazis used for the Final Solution.

 

[angelo]

How many of those conflicts are explicitly about religious reasons? Virtually all of the Muslim ones are.

And any actual evidence for that assertion? And are you denying the religious violence in European history, such as the inquisition, crusades, 30 years war, persecution of ‘witches’ etc?

We're discussing the modern era, not ancient history, besides, the crusades were defensive in nature. It was the Muslim hordes that invaded and occupied the land that what today is called Israel and and the surrounding area.