So Bibi Wants To Begin The "Final Solution."

[Loren Pechtel]

While non-Jews can be Israeli citizens, Israel was conceived as the homeland for Jewish people, and it is natural that Israel wishes to maintain that identity.

Technically, I think Israel was conceived to make it easier on European nations not having to take in Jewish refugees from the concentration camps. Europe's solution was to plop them outside of Europe to make the problem of property theft and displacement go away.

And in doing so, plopped the Jewish into a destabilized area without thinking of any of the consequences of displacing other people.

The problems Israel faces is due in large part due to the arrogance of Europe in just plopping a population in the Middle East and saying 'this is how it is going to be' and the childishness of Middle Eastern parties that just want to bitch and whine.

I'll agree on this--it was actually a way of getting rid of the Jews without being blamed for it.

And it's not about harming anybody, but rather adjusting the proclaimed borders to match the reality on the ground.

I'm pretty damn sure that if someone tossed you out of your home and took over your property, you wouldn't defend them by saying the above.

The areas being annexed are already Jewish settlements, nobody is being thrown out by this.

 

[Ford]

The areas being annexed are already Jewish settlements, nobody is being thrown out by this.

Ah, so if the land has already been stolen, it's okay by you. Got it.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'll agree on this--it was actually a way of getting rid of the Jews without being blamed for it.

And it's not about harming anybody, but rather adjusting the proclaimed borders to match the reality on the ground.

I'm pretty damn sure that if someone tossed you out of your home and took over your property, you wouldn't defend them by saying the above.

The areas being annexed are already Jewish settlements, nobody is being thrown out by this.

You are displaying willful ignorance. Palestinians are removed from their homes many, many times.

 

[laughing dog]

In other words, once again you have no response.

No, you are babbling again is a legitimate response even if you don't like it.

Ukraine was occupied for roughly 50 years.

And the lack of an announcement doesn't change the reality that they were re-annexed.

As usual, completely irrelevant to the point that continues to whoosh right over your head.

Fact: Russia has not occupied Crimea for the past 50 years.
Fact: Russia has not announced more annexation.

Those facts make the analogy between the West Bank and Crimea look like the usual lame smoke blowing apologia for the kneejerk accusers of anti-semitism.

 

[repoman]

Addicted gamblers are paying money to scumbag dual loyalist (or more loyal to Israel?) Sheldon Adelson who is a great friend to Bibi.

If he loves Israel so much he should get the fuck out of America.

 

[angelo]

Fact check........................................http://www.fuelfortruth.org/ten_facts

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Fact check........................................http://www.fuelfortruth.org/ten_facts

Inconvenient reality isn't welcome.

 

[angelo]

Sanity has prevailed in Israel at least, by re-electing Bibi.

 

[Ford]

Fact check........................................http://www.fuelfortruth.org/ten_facts

Inconvenient reality isn't welcome.

That seems like a totally unbiased source.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Fact check........................................http://www.fuelfortruth.org/ten_facts

Inconvenient reality isn't welcome.

That seems like a totally unbiased source.

The question is whether it's claims are true. Got any rebuttal?

 

[Ford]

That seems like a totally unbiased source.

The question is whether it's claims are true. Got any rebuttal?

The question is whether you'd accept anything that contradicts your notions of "greater Israel" and the idea that Palestinians are actually human beings. You assert that if a Palestinian's farm has been confiscated and turned into settlements, it was always been Israeli land and they have no right to be even a little upset.

 

[angelo]

That seems like a totally unbiased source.

The question is whether it's claims are true. Got any rebuttal?

The question is whether you'd accept anything that contradicts your notions of "greater Israel" and the idea that Palestinians are actually human beings. You assert that if a Palestinian's farm has been confiscated and turned into settlements, it was always been Israeli land and they have no right to be even a little upset.

Loren asked you the question of whether you have a rebuttal to my link!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That seems like a totally unbiased source.

The question is whether it's claims are true. Got any rebuttal?

The question is whether you'd accept anything that contradicts your notions of "greater Israel" and the idea that Palestinians are actually human beings. You assert that if a Palestinian's farm has been confiscated and turned into settlements, it was always been Israeli land and they have no right to be even a little upset.

Most of the stuff in that list was basic history that your side ignores.

 

[Ford]

The question is whether you'd accept anything that contradicts your notions of "greater Israel" and the idea that Palestinians are actually human beings. You assert that if a Palestinian's farm has been confiscated and turned into settlements, it was always been Israeli land and they have no right to be even a little upset.

Most of the stuff in that list was basic history that your side ignores.

Again, you've asserted that if the Palestinian land has already been stolen, it was always Israeli land anyway...no harm, no foul.

Is that basic history, too?

 

[angelo]

The question is whether you'd accept anything that contradicts your notions of "greater Israel" and the idea that Palestinians are actually human beings. You assert that if a Palestinian's farm has been confiscated and turned into settlements, it was always been Israeli land and they have no right to be even a little upset.

Most of the stuff in that list was basic history that your side ignores.

Again, you've asserted that if the Palestinian land has already been stolen, it was always Israeli land anyway...no harm, no foul.

Is that basic history, too?

There was never any land " stolen! Besides, the Jews are able to trace their affinity with that part of the world going back thousands of years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine

 

[Arctish]

That seems like a totally unbiased source.

The question is whether it's claims are true. Got any rebuttal?

Well, let's look at them one at a time.

1. Jews are called Jews because we come from Judea. We are indigenous to the Middle East and there has been a continuous Jewish presence in the land of Israel for thousands of years.

AFAIK both claims are correct.

2. Palestine was the name given by the Romans following the capture, destruction and expulsion of Judea. Jews ended up in Europe the same way African Americans ended up in the United States - white people invaded our land and uprooted us.

The name Palestine is derived from the name Philistia, which predates the Roman version. The first recorded use of that term for the people of that region is inscribed on an Egyptian temple that was built around 1190 BCE.

Also, Jews began emigrating to Europe and establishing Jewish communities in the Roman Empire before the power struggles between Jews and Romans became wars and uprisings, although tbf a lot of Jews were forced into slavery when their rebellions failed.

3. There has never been an independent Palestinian state. A self-identifiable, self-ruling and recognized Palestinian entity never existed until the Arab Palestinian national movement in the 20th century.

This seems like a slippery use of terms.

Every tribe in the region was self-identifiable and self-ruling, with widely recognized claims over grazing land, water resources, etc., and formed alliances with other tribes to extend their control over territory. This includes the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Whether these tribal governments and alliances constituted a 'recognized Palestinian entity' is a matter of semantics.

<more later>

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The question is whether you'd accept anything that contradicts your notions of "greater Israel" and the idea that Palestinians are actually human beings. You assert that if a Palestinian's farm has been confiscated and turned into settlements, it was always been Israeli land and they have no right to be even a little upset.

Most of the stuff in that list was basic history that your side ignores.

Again, you've asserted that if the Palestinian land has already been stolen, it was always Israeli land anyway...no harm, no foul.

Is that basic history, too?

To steal land requires it be stolen from someone--and there's never been a Palestinian nation to steal it from. The only claim to the land is Israeli, it's impossible for them to steal it. If the Palestinians want to assert a claim to the land the need a nation--and they aren't interested in doing that because they don't want one--they want to conquer Israel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

3. There has never been an independent Palestinian state. A self-identifiable, self-ruling and recognized Palestinian entity never existed until the Arab Palestinian national movement in the 20th century.

This seems like a slippery use of terms.

Every tribe in the region was self-identifiable and self-ruling, with widely recognized claims over grazing land, water resources, etc., and formed alliances with other tribes to extend their control over territory. This includes the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Whether these tribal governments and alliances constituted a 'recognized Palestinian entity' is a matter of semantics.

<more later>

There has been no entity that corresponded to the borders of "Palestine". "Palestine" was in no way distinct from Transjordan.

 

[Ford]

Again, you've asserted that if the Palestinian land has already been stolen, it was always Israeli land anyway...no harm, no foul.

Is that basic history, too?

To steal land requires it be stolen from someone--and there's never been a Palestinian nation to steal it from. The only claim to the land is Israeli, it's impossible for them to steal it. If the Palestinians want to assert a claim to the land the need a nation--and they aren't interested in doing that because they don't want one--they want to conquer Israel.

So if a Palestinian family owned a farm, they're not really Palestinian, the land has always been part of Israel, and if Israel wants it they just confiscate it and since the Palestinians who have been living on it for generations aren't actually real people with rights, Israel is right to do so.

Those people who lived on the land are not "someone" at all in your view, because they're not Israeli.

Again, you don't think Palestinians are human. That's the start of "Final Solution" thinking. De-humanizing the "other" so it's okay to relocate them or wipe them out.

 

[JohnG]

A good analogy is First Nations culture here in North America. They didn’t technically have ownership of the land, but they were here subsisting from the land. You could argue I guess they owned it in a sense....

Colonialism was just how the Brits went about their business. The Zionists were Jews, but they were also Brits, just doing what Brits did - walk into an occupied place and call it theirs. There were opportunities for peaceful solutions, but there has always been the politics of fear involved.

Fortunately for the Brits in NA, smallpox wiped out a massive chunk of the native population, or else we’d be fighting over 2 state solutions.

Jews aren’t monolithic, the diaspora has produced many political divides among us.

I am anti-Zionist, I am also an ethnic Jew. I am only one opinion. In my view the right wing in Israel is going to destroy Israel’s future.