-
Features
So, Feminism
- Thread starter Trausti
- Start date
Derec
Contributor
Well the political content would be about the political agenda of the art exhibit and about the wisdom of taking a bunch of snickering teenagers to a rather risque exhibit.
Btw, the name of the exhibit reminds me of this.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Who says there's a political agenda? Did someone say it in the OP article?
If there's no political content in the linked article, why is it posted in this forum and not the one for the arts?
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 34,022
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
Yeah, this definitely belongs in M&PC - there's no political content here at all.
Though it's not particularly inspiring art for me. It seems a bit lost - an attempt to confront, but too little, too late for confrontational feminist art. Perhaps Estonian audiences missed this wave the last time around, so maybe it's fresher in that local context.
It certainly seems like an odd thing to share on this forum - which in itself could be considered rather more interesting as art in its own right. An art installation that superficially is an OP about another, almost completely dissimilar, art installation; a strange self-referential object that simultaneously refers clearly to something far outside itself.
Though it's not particularly inspiring art for me. It seems a bit lost - an attempt to confront, but too little, too late for confrontational feminist art. Perhaps Estonian audiences missed this wave the last time around, so maybe it's fresher in that local context.
It certainly seems like an odd thing to share on this forum - which in itself could be considered rather more interesting as art in its own right. An art installation that superficially is an OP about another, almost completely dissimilar, art installation; a strange self-referential object that simultaneously refers clearly to something far outside itself.
ruby sparks
Contributor
Hm. Are we now willing to put Feminism in the category of 'culture' and not 'politics'? 
Seems to me there's enough politics involved in this particular case. From the OP article (google translated):
"..at the end of her speech, the artist, feminist and LGBT activist Mara Thrala took off her dress and remained in what she gave birth to. Thus, the woman expressed her protest against the works of the artist Marco Mäetamma. According to feminists, in his works there is violence in the image of the female body. During the performance, Thrall covered the works of Maetamma with sheets with anti-sexist slogans, and she hung a large piece of fabric on the door of the exhibition hall with his paintings, which she wrote “No” but ”can not be an excuse for sexism”."
Seems to me there's enough politics involved in this particular case. From the OP article (google translated):
"..at the end of her speech, the artist, feminist and LGBT activist Mara Thrala took off her dress and remained in what she gave birth to. Thus, the woman expressed her protest against the works of the artist Marco Mäetamma. According to feminists, in his works there is violence in the image of the female body. During the performance, Thrall covered the works of Maetamma with sheets with anti-sexist slogans, and she hung a large piece of fabric on the door of the exhibition hall with his paintings, which she wrote “No” but ”can not be an excuse for sexism”."
Last edited:
ruby sparks
Contributor
When she waves that pencil-thing in her hand towards the person on her left, I see something similar. I wonder if it mightn't even constitute an inadvertent sexual assault, or at least harassment.
Last edited:
ruby sparks
Contributor
Background context (to the OP). Estonia apparently lags behind many other countries in terms of gender equality. I read that in a recent poll, only 9% of Estonians polled (men and women) agreed that women were treated equally to men. That obviously may include those who think it's appropriate if women aren't.
Fwiw, Estonia also has a sizeable (and currently growing) far-right political party that makes the Republicans, and even Trump himself, look comparatively moderate. Two cabinet ministers apparently made a white power salute during their swearing-in ceremonies in May this year, for example.
Fwiw, Estonia also has a sizeable (and currently growing) far-right political party that makes the Republicans, and even Trump himself, look comparatively moderate. Two cabinet ministers apparently made a white power salute during their swearing-in ceremonies in May this year, for example.
Toni
Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2011
- Messages
- 19,824
- Basic Beliefs
- Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
Hm. Are we now willing to put Feminism in the category of 'culture' and not 'politics'?
No.
Jarhyn
Wizard
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 14,639
- Gender
- Androgyne; they/them
- Basic Beliefs
- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
I'm with Arctish here. This doesn't belong here. It belongs in Media and Culture because this is a discussion of society and culture and representations of persons within that culture.
thebeave
Veteran Member
That chunky woman in the first picture is exposing herself to juveniles. Isn't that some sort of crime?*
* yeah, I know, a crime against humanity...
* yeah, I know, a crime against humanity...
I wouldn't assume xir identifies as a chunky woman.
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 34,022
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
I don't know what Estonian law says, but many European countries don't have any laws against female nudity in any context. Indecent exposure laws are often only applicable to men.
But the law's an ass - we shouldn't use law as a guide to morality anyway, it should be the other way around.
Even if an action is technically criminal, it's infantile to discard discretion in deciding whether it should be penalised, instead of considering whether it has caused any harm.
The mere sight of a naked person is not harmful, and so allowing it should never constitute a crime in itself. Puritanism is harmful, and should not be allowed to dictate law.
There's no room in law for nuance and context, but artistic intent and sexual harassment are not in any way equivalent (except in the twisted minds of puritans). The former should be encouraged, and the latter discouraged (even criminalised), but the law finds it almost impossible to draw a clear set of rules about what constitutes the former, what constitutes the latter, and what constitutes both at the same time.
Certainly North Americans tend to be more squeamish and childish about nakedness than Europeans, though there is plenty of both on both continents.
Jarhyn
Wizard
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 14,639
- Gender
- Androgyne; they/them
- Basic Beliefs
- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
The proper pronoun is "they". Xir is a slur against non-binary people at this point, primarily because of people like you using it as one. I say this as a non-binary person.
WAB
Veteran Member
Has everyone read this? And if so, do you still contend that there is no political content in the OP?
ETA: I actually find such an act politically impactful (I admire her tenacity), but it is of no artistic value. It requires no artistic ability to disrobe in public, in protest.
This is a political topic.
As for the art: I have always contended that if someone calls something they produce "art", then we should call it art. It may very well be shitty art. A cartoon of a woman pissing on the floor, with a vacuous caption, may be called art as far as I'm concerned. In my opinion an unintelligent child could have done it, and it's crap - but that is beside the point.
And those torsos on the table look like sex toys for men. They seem to be popular:
Of course, even that could have some ironic value. Not artistic, but political.
Last edited:
Derec
Contributor
Are you assuming xir's preferred pronouns? Besides, who knows what "xir" is in Estonian.
Or maybe because it sounds as ridiculous as it is. "They" is merely clumsy, but "xir" is actually funny.
What are you, octal?
Derec
Contributor
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 34,022
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
I do still observe that there is no political content in the OP.
The translation of some of the text linked to in the sixth post in the thread is political. But no attempt was made by the OP to introduce political discussion - links to a page written in a language few people here read, with only pictures and no (translated) quotes copied into the post itself, imply that it's the images, and not the political discussion they inspire, that is the purpose of the OP.
As an attempt to start a political discussion, the OP is remarkable for its unsuitability for that task. If indeed that was its intended purpose.
WAB
Veteran Member
Regardless of Trausti's objectives or motives, we have the translation, and the article is political. Art is a secondary interest, In fact, it's negligible.
This has got to be the worst field trip ever.