So much for freedom of thought at universities

[RavenSky]

Why do we all frown on prostitution anyway? Nothing wrong with paying for sex, or as Charlie Sheen famously said, "I don't pay for the sex, I pay for them to leave".

I don't frown on prostitution in general. I do frown on the exploitation of women, particularly under-age or young women. I also think the latter is largely a function of making prostitution illegal.

 

[Derec]

Getting back on topic, this article is relevant to the topic of criticism of the concept of "rape culture.
In College and Hiding From Scary Ideas

KATHERINE BYRON, a senior at Brown University and a member of its Sexual Assault Task Force, considers it her duty to make Brown a safe place for rape victims, free from anything that might prompt memories of trauma.

So when she heard last fall that a student group had organized a debate about campus sexual assault between Jessica Valenti, the founder of feministing.com, and Wendy McElroy, a libertarian, and that Ms. McElroy was likely to criticize the term “rape culture,” Ms. Byron was alarmed. “Bringing in a speaker like that could serve to invalidate people’s experiences,” she told me. It could be “damaging.”

The result was a preschool like room where those traumatized by McElroy's ideas could go to "recuperate".

The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma.

The whole article is worth reading though. It also talks about Northwestern students protesting an article by a professor decrying "sexual paranoia" and Oxford feminists threatened to disrupt a debate on abortion because it had two men (i.e. evil male patriarchal oppressors in fem-speak) as participants and the university unfortunately caved and many more similarly ridiculous things.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That sounds cool. Is it for everyone or do we need to go through a trauma first? If the latter, I can dredge up some "repressed" memories of abuse in order to let me play with Play-Doh.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Getting back on topic, this article is relevant to the topic of criticism of the concept of "rape culture...

Actually the OP was a failed attempt at showing the prevelance of anti-man bias regarding rape.

Regarding the Op-Ed, it is a shame that all six of Earth's universities have suffered from perhaps leaning in one direction regarding discussion of the subject.

 

[Malintent]

So much for keeping events in context and not blowing them out of proportion to extrapolate the event at one school onto the entire university system.

And upon reading the article, the word "banned" seems like hyperbole in of itself.

So lets see:

• not banned from school or class
• not removed because of teacher's opinion
• story is almost exclusively from student's own perspective

But when Jeremiah True wouldn’t stop talking about his controversial opinions on sexual assault in his required freshman humanities course, his professor banned him from the discussion segment of the class for the remainder of the semester.
The 19-year-old told BuzzFeed News that his professor, Pancho Savery, warned him repeatedly that his views made his classmates uncomfortable before he told him in a March 14 email that he was no longer welcome to participate in the “conference” section of his Humanities 110 lecture-seminar class.
“Please know that this was a difficult decision for me to make and one that I have never made before; nevertheless, in light of the serious stress you have caused your classmates, I feel that I have no other choice,” Savery wrote in the email, obtained by BuzzFeed News.
True, whose Facebook page says he studies “How to Annoy People” at Reed, takes pride in challenging his classmates’ opinions.
“I know many people aren’t comfortable with taking the stances I do, but I’m not a sheep,” he said.

He may not be a sheep but he sure is a shit cock.

"How to Annoy People" makes him a troll. Trolls get banned from discussions all the time.. it is the right action to take.

 

[Bronzeage]

College Professor Bans Student From Class For His Views On Rape

He was banned by a lefty professor Pancho Savery (who on his college homepage says that he "believe religiously in the conference method—the idea that students are in charge of their own education" except, apparently, if they disagree with him), because he challenged the notions of "rape culture" and the unfounded "1 in 5" (sometimes "1 in 4") claims. Feminist propaganda must not be challenged I guess.
I wonder if the student in question can sue for viewpoint discrimination.

There were few things that irritated me more than the blind puppies who wanted to debate the professor in class. I paid good money for that chair and some idiot thinks his short 19 years on this planet has given him some special wisdom and it's his duty to share it with the class.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There were few things that irritated me more than the blind puppies who wanted to debate the professor in class. I paid good money for that chair and some idiot thinks his short 19 years on this planet has given him some special wisdom and it's his duty to share it with the class.

Well ... why wouldn't it? Some 19 year olds are pretty smart and some professors are pretty stupid. If you think he's wrong, there's nothing that stops you from using your chair to argue against his points.

 

[dismal]

College Professor Bans Student From Class For His Views On Rape

He was banned by a lefty professor Pancho Savery (who on his college homepage says that he "believe religiously in the conference method—the idea that students are in charge of their own education" except, apparently, if they disagree with him), because he challenged the notions of "rape culture" and the unfounded "1 in 5" (sometimes "1 in 4") claims. Feminist propaganda must not be challenged I guess.
I wonder if the student in question can sue for viewpoint discrimination.

There were few things that irritated me more than the blind puppies who wanted to debate the professor in class. I paid good money for that chair and some idiot thinks his short 19 years on this planet has given him some special wisdom and it's his duty to share it with the class.

This was a class about Classical Greek humanities. If the professor wanted to use a Greek humanities class as a platform for discussions about campus rape the professor is the one who disrupted the class you paid for.

http://academic.reed.edu/Humanities/Hum110/

 

[ronburgundy]

There were few things that irritated me more than the blind puppies who wanted to debate the professor in class. I paid good money for that chair and some idiot thinks his short 19 years on this planet has given him some special wisdom and it's his duty to share it with the class.

Well ... why wouldn't it? Some 19 year olds are pretty smart and some professors are pretty stupid. If you think he's wrong, there's nothing that stops you from using your chair to argue against his points.

And he was debating claims during breakout group discussion sessions, which is what is meant when the article refers to "conferences" portion of the course (conference means to meet in order to discuss, not to listen).

 

[Tom Sawyer]

There were few things that irritated me more than the blind puppies who wanted to debate the professor in class. I paid good money for that chair and some idiot thinks his short 19 years on this planet has given him some special wisdom and it's his duty to share it with the class.

This was a class about Classical Greek humanities. If the professor wanted to use a Greek humanities class as a platform for discussions about campus rape the professor is the one who disrupted the class you paid for.

http://academic.reed.edu/Humanities/Hum110/

Hey, 1 out of 4 Greek women in antiquity were raped by Zeus. The parallel is there.

 

[ksen]

If the professor wanted to use a Greek humanities class as a platform for discussions about campus rape

Is that what the professor was doing?

 

[dismal]

If the professor wanted to use a Greek humanities class as a platform for discussions about campus rape

Is that what the professor was doing?

I don't know but I don't hear anyone saying the student kept spouting off about campus rape statistics while the Professor was trying to talk about Thucydides.

The objection appears to be only with the content of what he said.

“There are several survivors of sexual assault in our conference, and you have made them extremely uncomfortable with what they see as not only your undermining incidents of rape, but of also placing too much emphasis on men being unfairly charged with rape,” Savery wrote to True. “The entire conference without exception, men as well as women, feel that your presence makes them uncomfortable enough that they would rather not be there if you are there, and they have said that things you have said in our conference have made them so upset that they have difficulty concentrating in other classes. I, as conference leader, have to do what is best for the well-being of the entire class, and I am therefore banning you from conference for the remainder of the semester.”

But the turning point was when he refused to stop discussing his beliefs on rape, even though sexual assault survivors told him outside of class that it made them uncomfortable.

“That’s when he crossed the border from his right to have his own beliefs to harassment,” said Clara. She said that she never felt physically unsafe, but that she is a survivor of sexual assault and True’s comments made it hard for her to concentrate in class as well as other courses.

“In response to being respectfully asked to stop, he discussed [his views] more openly and more aggressively, and just disregarded people’s lived experiences,” she said. “He continued to argue with people who had expressed to him that they felt unsafe and uncomfortable. He said rape culture didn’t exist, but I feel like I live rape culture every day.”

“It’s really nice to know that my school supports survivors and listens when they say they don’t feel safe. Rape culture is indisputable and [True’s] words and actions are deeply upsetting. They’ve retraumatized and triggered survivors, and that seems antithetical to Reed culture.”

No one is saying he was banging on trash can lids, derailing highly focused discussions about Classical Greek humanities, or refusing to silence the Billy Squier ringtone on his phone. They are objecting to the content of what he said.

 

[Bronzeage]

There were few things that irritated me more than the blind puppies who wanted to debate the professor in class. I paid good money for that chair and some idiot thinks his short 19 years on this planet has given him some special wisdom and it's his duty to share it with the class.

This was a class about Classical Greek humanities. If the professor wanted to use a Greek humanities class as a platform for discussions about campus rape the professor is the one who disrupted the class you paid for.

http://academic.reed.edu/Humanities/Hum110/

It's the professor's class and he will be writing the exam. If he wants to put the Rape of the Sabine Women, or Leda and the Swan, maybe Apollo and Daphne, all of which concerned rape, on the exam, I want to hear what he has to say about it, not listen to a nitwit who is afraid he'll be be thrown in jail if he gets close enough to a girl to see her panty lines.

Every campus I know of, with the possible exception of Liberty and Bob Jones, has a place and a time reserved for people to address whoever shows up to listen to them. On the campus of the great LSU, every Wednesday at 3:30pm on the steps of the Student Union building, anyone who wants, student, faculty, homeless derelict, whatever, can put their name on a list and if they sit patiently for their turn, they will be given a microphone and exercise their right to free speech, while a polite(most of the time) crowd will listen to them. This is where David Duke got his start, so if a neophyte neonazi is allowed to speak, I'm sure a men's right advocate who is just a little shy of being a man will be heard, as well.

 

[Nexus]

I want to hear what he has to say about it, not listen to a nitwit who is afraid he'll be be thrown in jail if he gets close enough to a girl to see her panty lines.

The professor set this time aside for students to speak he wasn't being interrupted during his lecture time.

 

[Jokodo]

Sorry to continue this derail about dating, but there you go.

Consider me an alien from outer space for the purposes of this discussion, because apparently that's what I am. So, this alien from outer space is asking: Is "the man pays for the date" actually a thing in 21st century North America? Because in 21st century Central Europe the default very definitely is splitting the bills (which can take the form of paying rounds if you're having drinks). Whenever I did politely suggest that I could pay the next round even though it's her turn or sometimes even just to borrow her the money (for example, because she was out of cash and I didn't want us to leave already), I was met with resistance, as if my rendezvous was unwilling to enter a situation where she was even remotely obliged to me in any way. And that includes outings with women who I know for a fact wanted to have sex with me (either because we did have sex the same night, or because I later learned they were disappointed we didn't).

Nowadays, after many years, I sometimes do pay all expenses on an outing with my girlfriend - when I'm explicitly treating her to it, for example because it's her birthday. She does the same for me. And when one of us is short of cash, the other one will cover the bill (more often her these days). But it took as some time to get there.

So the whole idea that there's a covert prostitution industry going on involving men who pay all expenses on dates and women putting out who wouldn't have put out if he'd suggested to split the bill really does seem like coming from a different planet to me.

(also, Derec: go to the Lounge.)

 

[Jokodo]

The other thing, somebody complained that the women but not the men get a fair deal whatever happens, i.e. that even if the date goes awry and there isn't going to be any smooching nor a second date, she's at least got a free meal while he ends up paying two meals for nought: That seems to go contrary to what little I believe I've picked up about 21st century North American (or 1960s European) dating conventions. Isn't that kind of situation exactly when women will insist on paying their part of the bill even where conventions would otherwise dictate that the man pays? Isn't that even why some men positively insist on paying the bill because they interpret any suggestion on her side to go dutch as a put-down?

 

[Arctish]

I want to hear what he has to say about it, not listen to a nitwit who is afraid he'll be be thrown in jail if he gets close enough to a girl to see her panty lines.

The professor set this time aside for students to speak he wasn't being interrupted during his lecture time.

The professor also set aside time for one-on-one discussions with that particular student, so the student could air his views and enjoy the benefit of discussion but without the opportunity to troll his classmates. Having exclusive engagements with the professor is a huge advantage. Too bad the student isn't interested in making the most of his opportunity to explore the subject with his instructor.

 

[Metaphor]

If he wants to put the Rape of the Sabine Women, or Leda and the Swan, maybe Apollo and Daphne, all of which concerned rape,

Oh please. Leda wanted it and everyone knows it. She only falsely alleged rape when she realised society wouldn't accept her human-swan coupling.

 

[Togo]

No one is saying he was banging on trash can lids, derailing highly focused discussions about Classical Greek humanities,

They seem to be. They're saying that he refused to stop discussing his own beliefs. Unless the topic of the class was his own beliefs, that's a straight derail. In addition he appears to be presenting his own opinion aggressively, with no regard for the views of others. It's not hard to disrupt a class discussion by being dogmatic and refusing to let others contribute. If you were in a class, and there was someone in the front row who shouted that you were a lying rapist every time you tried to talk about imbalances in public policy between men and woman, there has to be a point beyond which they are removed so that your view can be discussed in detail.

Intellectual freedom is not the freedom to impose your views on others. Nor is it the freedom to reduce every discussion to your own opinion. People must be allowed to discuss topics such as rape culture even if some people firmly believe that the entire topic is a lie or conspiracy. The ability to critically discuss an idea that you don't agree with, without constantly bringing up the fact that you don't agree, is pretty fundamental.

 

[Derec]

The other thing, somebody complained that the women but not the men get a fair deal whatever happens, i.e. that even if the date goes awry and there isn't going to be any smooching nor a second date, she's at least got a free meal while he ends up paying two meals for nought: That seems to go contrary to what little I believe I've picked up about 21st century North American (or 1960s European) dating conventions. Isn't that kind of situation exactly when women will insist on paying their part of the bill even where conventions would otherwise dictate that the man pays? Isn't that even why some men positively insist on paying the bill because they interpret any suggestion on her side to go dutch as a put-down?

Those two women who engage in dating for the sole purpose of getting free restaurant meals prove the opposite.