South Carolina police officer investigated after slamming student to ground at Spring Valley High

[Tom Sawyer]

:mod:

 

[scombrid]

Max's wife would not have been a special ed teacher for 15 years if her idea of classroom discipline was throwing a student across the room. In fact, from his very own description of her, she sounds just like one of those "extreme pathological empathetic disorder" types.
What has in SC was that the teacher either didn't know there was an underlying issue, didn't care about the underlying issue, and simply didn't address the relatively innocuous issue of texting properly. Personally, classrooms should be shielded to prevent cell signals, which would immediately put an end to phone issues, because unlike my generation and those before, smart phones are quite a new invention that have really butted their way into the classroom. Before hand, you'd pass notes, now they can pass notes across and even outside the school!

NPR had an interesting thing on tablets and smart phones and some teachers were calling in and expressing frustration over how some of her students can't even handle not having the phone with them! This needs to be addressed in a mature and effective manner. Not by dragging a teenaged student who had recently lost her mother across the school room.

Good points on the aside.

However, the topic is not what is the appropriate electronic device policy or what is the proper school response to violations.

The topic is whether or not the police acted appropriately when asked by the school to remove a student.

Is it appropriate for the cop to walk in and go ballistic when compliance is not instant? When the subject is not violent or a threat?

I say it isn't. Most agree. Mostly.

 

[scombrid]

[
I'm confused by the bold. You do understand that most (all?) of the people advocating that this is an appropriate response are small-government-conservatives?

My own anecdotal experience in meatspace and cyberspace is that the folks who support these types of actions tend to be conservative/Republican/Libertarian. Small government until there's a slight infraction at which point the full might of that government should and must crush the infractor.

yes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Max's wife would not have been a special ed teacher for 15 years if her idea of classroom discipline was throwing a student across the room. In fact, from his very own description of her, she sounds just like one of those "extreme pathological empathetic disorder" types.
What has in SC was that the teacher either didn't know there was an underlying issue, didn't care about the underlying issue, and simply didn't address the relatively innocuous issue of texting properly. Personally, classrooms should be shielded to prevent cell signals, which would immediately put an end to phone issues, because unlike my generation and those before, smart phones are quite a new invention that have really butted their way into the classroom. Before hand, you'd pass notes, now they can pass notes across and even outside the school!

NPR had an interesting thing on tablets and smart phones and some teachers were calling in and expressing frustration over how some of her students can't even handle not having the phone with them! This needs to be addressed in a mature and effective manner. Not by dragging a teenaged student who had recently lost her mother across the school room.

Good points on the aside.

However, the topic is not what is the appropriate electronic device policy or what is the proper school response to violations.

The topic is whether or not the police acted appropriately when asked by the school to remove a student.

Is it appropriate for the cop to walk in and go ballistic when compliance is not instant? When the subject is not violent or a threat?

I say it isn't. Most agree. Mostly.

Yeah. You'd need to have a very poor understanding of children and teens and a general propensity for violence in order to support the idea of any physical altercation over texting in class. The student was likely undisruptive in the classroom (which would be a problem in the sense that she isn't paying as much attention to the class), so getting an officer in to the classroom has to be magnitudes more disruptive than anything the student did. And then to have an officer act as forcefully? That is just blowing the lid off of disruptiveness and you've pretty much toasted the remainder of the class.

So simply from a logistical point of view, the teacher and then the officer just fucked the disruptive duck, in order to stop the student's alleged disruptive behavior. And this is ignoring any potential context of a recently broken family life!

 

[abaddon]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...9ea4fa-7e2a-11e5-afce-2afd1d3eb896_story.html

Thank you for this link.

Marvelous policing is illustrated in that situation. Seriously. A teen girl disobeyed a lawful order to clear the area and played music and danced instead. The officer had a choice. Try to force total compliance? Or "back down" and let the little 'brat' feel victorious? Her choice: To dance with the teen. That’s a priceless education in human relating. There’s no way that an authoritarian smackdown could have taught anyone respect so well as this kind of response.

That’s something that gets me about people that want respect without giving it. They think it can be forced. But that's not true even for the most meek, docile, servile people. The only rational response to oppressive authority is resentment and rebellion. Unquestioning obedience is not the rational response to authority, as anyone who knows what “freethinker” means, and values it, should realize.

Freethought is not restricted to a rejection of the authority of religion, it’s rejection of all tradition and authority that does not meet the standards of reason, as some laws and many applications of laws do not. And it is never possible to make a reasoned argument about what’s ethically right and wrong by referencing the law, that’s legalism which is the opposite of freethought.

One of the reasons I appreciate the link is, earlier in the thread people were answering "what would you do instead?" My immediate thoughts on that were if I were the teacher I'd have put the book aside for the remainder of the class and told a story. Or posed a question that would on the surface seem unrelated to the phone issue and started a dialogue. After all, it's an institute of education, and to really fulfill the role they need to put the books aside sometimes.

 

[fromderinside]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...9ea4fa-7e2a-11e5-afce-2afd1d3eb896_story.html

Thank you for this link.

Marvelous policing is illustrated in that situation. Seriously. A teen girl disobeyed a lawful order to clear the area and played music and danced instead. The officer had a choice. Try to force total compliance? Or "back down" and let the little 'brat' feel victorious? Her choice: To dance with the teen. That’s a priceless education in human relating. There’s no way that an authoritarian smackdown could have taught anyone respect so well as this kind of response.

That’s something that gets me about people that want respect without giving it. They think it can be forced. But that's not true even for the most meek, docile, servile people. The only rational response to oppressive authority is resentment and rebellion. Unquestioning obedience is not the rational response to authority, as anyone who knows what “freethinker” means, and values it, should realize.

Freethought is not restricted to a rejection of the authority of religion, it’s rejection of all tradition and authority that does not meet the standards of reason, as some laws and many applications of laws do not. And it is never possible to make a reasoned argument about what’s ethically right and wrong by referencing the law, that’s legalism which is the opposite of free thought.

One of the reasons I appreciate the link is, earlier in the thread people were answering "what would you do instead?" My immediate thoughts on that were if I were the teacher I'd have put the book aside for the remainder of the class and told a story. Or posed a question that would on the surface seem unrelated to the phone issue and started a dialogue. After all, it's an institute of education, and to really fulfill the role they need to put the books aside sometimes.

Nice points.

What I found ridiculous was the relative size of the cop to the teen. He was fit. Shes was a relatively small girl. Back in the day I got into a scuffle with my neighbor coming out of a school event. A five foot six inch female administrator picked ups both off the ground, one in her left hand and the other in her right and held us feet dangling off the ground. Nothing more embarrassing than being in a position of demonstrated helplessness. Problem solved. Sure I weighed a dripping wet 95 pounds and my neighbor weighed 100 pounds. The difference between physically fit adult and teen could not have been more decisive. Nobody got hurt.

Point is in addition to those you made. A fit adult can use physical force effectively without hurting anyone. This idiot didn't. Bottom line. Never let an emotional asshole in under cover of authority get involved in discipline.

 

[Trausti]

And the narrative begins to crumble.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/10/30/students-walk-out-for-fired-deputy.html

 

[KeepTalking]

And the narrative begins to crumble.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/10/30/students-walk-out-for-fired-deputy.html

I think the kid on the left spelled "Fire" wrong. Otherwise, I'm not sure what Fields needs to be freed from, to my knowledge he was not arrested, unlike the victims in this narrative.

 

[ksen]

hey, wasn't it not too long ago that some of those saying the girl deserved her smackdown because classroom order must be maintained at all costs were upset with a college professor kicking a kid out of class for continually disrupting the classroom discussions?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And the narrative begins to crumble.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/10/30/students-walk-out-for-fired-deputy.html

What narrative? What crumbling? The link says there was a short walkout.

 

[Deepak]

And the narrative begins to crumble.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/10/30/students-walk-out-for-fired-deputy.html

What narrative? What crumbling? The link says there was a short walkout.

I think he means the narrative that students must be manhandled to effectively maintain order.

Principal Jeff Temoney told the students none of them would be suspended if they returned to class.

"We've heard your voices, okay," Temoney said. "We appreciate you taking time to do this, but again, as you know, we always focus on teaching and learning, so let's head on back to class."

 

[Rhea]

And the narrative begins to crumble.

Narrative...

School population 2000+
Number of supporters walking out "hundreds"
Position of Fields, "Football coach"
Number of students on football team...

Number of non-football students who joined protest... ??

From the article,
"We've reached out to the district, who called the walkout "small" and "orderly." "

Just sayin'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What narrative? What crumbling? The link says there was a short walkout.

I think he means the narrative that students must be manhandled to effectively maintain order.

Principal Jeff Temoney told the students none of them would be suspended if they returned to class.

"We've heard your voices, okay," Temoney said. "We appreciate you taking time to do this, but again, as you know, we always focus on teaching and learning, so let's head on back to class."

Man, they went back to class after being asked and not whooped? What type of message does this teach students? They'll never listen to the authority figures at the school when the authority figures ask them to do something and then the students do it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So ... none of the protesting students were killed or injured?

What a boring story. Let's not talk about it anymore.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

She's a stupid kid. Being a stupid kid shouldn't be a dangerous game around the cops.

Cops ought not be killing machines on a hair trigger that we have to walk on eggshells around for fear of setting them off. That's no way for a civilized society to work.

I'm an old man but I could still have picked her up, chair and all, carried her outside the classroom, taken her to the principal's office and my job is done. This guy is a poorly trained dick.

 

[Deepak]

This guy is a poorly trained dick.

I see this type of reaction a lot, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume he was poorly trained when the latter has so much explanatory power itself. It could be that he was well trained, but simply ignored that training...

 

[arkirk]

This guy is a poorly trained dick.

I see this type of reaction a lot, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume he was poorly trained when the latter has so much explanatory power itself. It could be that he was well trained, but simply ignored that training...

My understanding is that the teacher wanted to take the girl's cell phone and she would not comply. I am sure that the cop received training on how to deal with situations like that and perhaps even a specific briefing not to behave as he did in the video. The truth is, if his training was being ignored, then it did not TAKE and is was poor training. It failed to make a significant impact on the psyche of the cop and he just got too violent too quickly. Firing him from that job possibly makes sense. I always feel a certain reluctance to take away a person's income if they have a family relying on them for support...we are more and more thinking like Donald Trump. If someone does something inappropriate or that the boss may hate for one reason or another...FIRE HIM. Perhaps he could work servicing police cars or mopping out cells in the jail. I think he should spend a little time there, not in charge.

I think this cop needed a little help with his anger management and also a different career.

 

[ksen]

He was the football coach? Well why didn't the dummy just go get a couple of his players to haul her and the desk out?

 

[atrib]

hey, wasn't it not too long ago that some of those saying the girl deserved her smackdown because classroom order must be maintained at all costs were upset with a college professor kicking a kid out of class for continually disrupting the classroom discussions?

Indeed. As Derec has stated:

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?4401-So-much-for-freedom-of-thought-at-universities&p=136083&viewfull=1#post136083

It is a bad thing for a teacher to bar an adult male student from attending his class because said student was disrupting the class while proudly proclaiming on social media that he enjoyed trolling people and testing the boundaries of how much obnoxious behavior he could get away with.

But now Derec claims it is completely appropriate for a police officer to slam a female teenage student on the floor and drag her violently across the room because said student was caught texting in class and refused to leave when asked to by her teacher.

You literally cannot make up shit like this.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, she was active aggressive--striking the officer.

A video that shows it, albeit not clearly (you'll need to run it in super slow motion):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3T5yVBz5j4

and there's a third we haven't seen yet. Listen to the sheriff:

http://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watc...isturbing-553138755716?cid=sm_fb_msnbc_native

Beyond his babbling he does say there's a video from another angle that shows the girl striking him.

The video shows the SRO trying to pick up the girl by her neck. We had a form of execution that involved suspending people by the neck and quite a few suicides are still accomplished that way.

The resistance we see the girl engaged in at this point in the video might easily be explained as self defense against a threat on her life.

Watch the video in slow motion. She strikes him as soon as he lays hands on her.