South Carolina police officer investigated after slamming student to ground at Spring Valley High

[Derec]

To flavor the bullshit you decide is acceptable criteria upon which to base your opinions? Someone in that class is identified as being 18 so EVERYBODY is 18?

I did not say she is 18, just that I did not think it's likely she was 15.

Point? You have no idea how old she is. Given that her identity is not public, it is extremely likely she is a minor. Under 18.

I agree with that. Of course, if NYT is right she is 16 so the whole thing is moot.

I genuinely did not intend to belittle you, Derec. Frankly, I am concerned in general at how poorly our (by: our, I mean our nation, in general. There are exceptions and some schools do an excellent job) schools serve students, how they hold them back and presume they are not capable of doing intellectual work. It is shocking to me.

Well I did not go to school in this country and where I did the schools were not "one size fits all" but you had tiered public schools with first differentiation as early as 5th grade. But that's a long story for another time perhaps.

I think that EVERYBODY deserves the best possible education.

Well we agree in principle. Of course, not everybody has equal academic aptitude, especially when broken down by subject.

When you seemed surprised that a 15 year old might be in an algebra class, I guess I inferred that you perhaps did not have the chance to take algebra until later.

No, I would have been surprised this 15 year old would, given her sustained disruptive/defiant behavior, based on my own experiences as a student.

 

[Derec]

She did what she was told: she complied.

She didn't comply - she did not surrender her phone.

The 'real world' is not that if you break a rule, the police get to come and drag you out of your chair by your hair and clothing and assault you and arrest you.

The cop wasn't called immediately but only after repeated and sustained defiance.

You seem to have confused the real world with Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 1, Episode 8: Justice

Yeah, because she got the needle.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

More accurately try laughing dogs ideological blinders on, although he/she never takes them off so you might have borrow them from someone else. Use of force was in fact necessary to remove her and to stop her from disrupting the class.
However, several people who share laughing dog's brand of blinders have made claims that they could have removed her without any force or "violence", though such claims are baseless and contradict by all fact and logic.

I don't know anything about you. I don't know if you went to a high school where students were sometimes non-compliant, or whether you were sometimes non-compliant yourself, or if you have children or if they are teenagers, or if you are a teacher, coach, tutor or counselor who has dealt with non-compliant teenagers. Or if you have ever dealt with large kids who have social handicaps.

Exhibit 1 for why many schools totally fail at educating kids: Your approach is used to deal with disruptive students.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.wltx.com/videos/news/local/2015/10/27/instagram-video-of-spring-valley-incident/74689786/

I just watched this video in slow motion.

At 2 seconds his left arm is under the desk lifting it an flipping it backwards.

At 4 seconds he has her left leg behind the knee and her left arm in his right hand and he flings her all the way to the front of the room.

Ignore this video--it's been edited to remove part of the action. Given the size of the clip I can see no reason to think this is for anything but deceptive reasons.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

It is a SCHOOL! She is a STUDENT! Try NOT HATING your idea of THUGS and START SEEING the 15 year old girl!

Where do you get the idea that she is 15? Her classmate that was interviewed is 18 and I doubt Little Miss Rag Doll is some sort of math prodigy taking algebra her sophomore year.

her age is in the article

she is human being not a rag doll

I took algebra in the 8th grade

my mother in a segregated school in the south in the 1930s took algebra in the 8th grade.

most kids on an academic tract take algebra in the 9th grade.

anything else you need help with?

 

[Toni]

I did not say she is 18, just that I did not think it's likely she was 15.

I will refer to your post (#19 in this thread):

Is she a kid? Her classmate who was also arrested was identified as 18. So our unnamed rag doll would be either 17 or 18 herself - hardly a "little girl" who doesn't know better.

But whatever....

I think that EVERYBODY deserves the best possible education.

Well we agree in principle. Of course, not everybody has equal academic aptitude, especially when broken down by subject.

When I say: best possible education, I don't mean that everybody should have the identical education. For instance, if I had been forced to take choir because that's what girls in my grade did, everybody would have suffered. Badly.

When you seemed surprised that a 15 year old might be in an algebra class, I guess I inferred that you perhaps did not have the chance to take algebra until later.

No, I would have been surprised this 15 year old would, given her sustained disruptive/defiant behavior, based on my own experiences as a student.

Yet her classmates viewed her as a quiet girl, not disruptive at all.

And in fact, she makes no sound at all during the assault.

 

[Toni]

http://www.wltx.com/videos/news/local/2015/10/27/instagram-video-of-spring-valley-incident/74689786/

I just watched this video in slow motion.

At 2 seconds his left arm is under the desk lifting it an flipping it backwards.

At 4 seconds he has her left leg behind the knee and her left arm in his right hand and he flings her all the way to the front of the room.

Ignore this video--it's been edited to remove part of the action. Given the size of the clip I can see no reason to think this is for anything but deceptive reasons.

It's on instagram. That explains the size. Look at the clip in the article I linked upthread.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Well, there is force and then there is force.

Dragging the desk is force, but it isn't battery.

or what a friend of mine did with a similar situation

When the student would not leave the class room, the assistant principal was called not the police. He asked the student to come with him, the student refused. The principal then asked a couple of football players who were also in the class to help him. They then lifted the desk with the student in it and carried student and desk out into the hall. Once there was no audience, the student got out of the desk and went to the office.

Again, a use of force, but not a battery.

And if the football players dropped the desk, lawsuit city.

They didn't drop her
there was no lawsuit

there was also no federal investigation, unlike this case.
THIS is going to spawn a lawsuit.

so once again

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/us/spring-valley-high-school-sc-officer-arrest.html

Emphasis added, but frankly I don't care that much how old she was.

So I was right, she was not 15...

I suggest that you take more time to think before writing. You could use that time to reflect about what you have already written as well as what you will write. That way you do not make errors like that and you might start also using hyperbole less, too. That would not only benefit you but also your readers.

Speaking of which, I made your thread for you:
http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...4-year-old-boy-in-Texas-not-getting-attention

 

[Rhea]

I don't know anything about you. I don't know if you went to a high school where students were sometimes non-compliant, or whether you were sometimes non-compliant yourself, or if you have children or if they are teenagers, or if you are a teacher, coach, tutor or counselor who has dealt with non-compliant teenagers. Or if you have ever dealt with large kids who have social handicaps.

Exhibit 1 for why many schools totally fail at educating kids: Your approach is used to deal with disruptive students.

You're claiming this was a disruptive student. My approach is what I would do.
I have teenagers currently in high school.
I spend a LOT of time with students.
Including large ones with some social problems.
I _was_ a disruptive student when I was in high school. I have _been_ that girl, but I was a bigger jerk.
You're talking out your ass.

You don't have kids, you don't mentor kids, you don't coach kids, you aren't a teacher.
That quote of mine was not directed at you, it was directed at Ronburgundy, because I am already aware that you do not have kids.
Which may be why you have no fucking idea how to deal with kids.

 

[Derec]

I will refer to your post (#19 in this thread):

#19 is very early before I realized that her being unnamed is probably due to the fact she is under 18. My bigger point still stands, she is not a little girl who didn't know better.

Yet her classmates viewed her as a quiet girl, not disruptive at all.

They would say that now, wouldn't they?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here is an idea, start shielding classrooms to kill the cell signal. No fucking phones in school, period! No guns, no smart phones.

Whether he enjoyed it or not, he didn't have too many options. Either he gets her out by force or he uses a taser, which would hardly have caused less outrage from the usual quarters.

Yeah--that doesn't look like he's throwing her across the room, but rather out of the desk she's in. Without knowing what came before I don't think we can tell whether he was acting reasonably or not.

Simply from a legal perspective, the amount of legal risk to a lawsuit to deal with a phone issue seemed wildly unacceptable.

I could talk about the issue of the use of force against civilians over petty things, but I'd just be wasting 1's and 0's doing that, so I'll stick with the above.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

#19 is very early before I realized that her being unnamed is probably due to the fact she is under 18. My bigger point still stands, she is not a little girl who didn't know better.

Yet her classmates viewed her as a quiet girl, not disruptive at all.

They would say that now, wouldn't they?

Yes because they were all in algebra and students in algebra stick together by lying for one another.

 

[Rhea]

#19 is very early before I realized that her being unnamed is probably due to the fact she is under 18. My bigger point still stands, she is not a little girl who didn't know better.

Yet her classmates viewed her as a quiet girl, not disruptive at all.

They would say that now, wouldn't they?

16 years old is a girl who doesn't know any better. It's practically the definition of it.

 

[Toni]

#19 is very early before I realized that her being unnamed is probably due to the fact she is under 18. My bigger point still stands, she is not a little girl who didn't know better.

At what point did you realize your mistake and correct yourself? We're at posts 100 and something right now. In fact, I only pointed out that you did, in fact, decide that she must be 17 or 18 based on....what? someone else was? And then claimed you never said that she was 18. You did say that she was.

But: apology accepted. Of course.

Yet her classmates viewed her as a quiet girl, not disruptive at all.

They would say that now, wouldn't they?

Well, they would know, wouldn't they? And the video bears out that characterization. She is quiet--silent, even. She does not fight back.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So she was asked to hand over the phone or leave. She refused to do either.

Really? according to what source? I need a link.

Anything to deny the reality of the situation.

 

[Toni]

Really? according to what source? I need a link.

Anything to deny the reality of the situation.

Which is why I asked you for a link. And why you won't provide one. We all know why you refuse to provide links and rarely seem to have viewed them. You think it gives you plausible deniability. You are not correct.

- - - Updated - - -

#19 is very early before I realized that her being unnamed is probably due to the fact she is under 18. My bigger point still stands, she is not a little girl who didn't know better.

They would say that now, wouldn't they?

16 years old is a girl who doesn't know any better. It's practically the definition of it.

At 16, kids still think adults can be trusted to do the right thing.

How sad that too often, adults cannot be trusted to know the right thing, and too often, lack the courage to do it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is a SCHOOL! She is a STUDENT! Try NOT HATING your idea of THUGS and START SEEING the 15 year old girl!

Where do you get the idea that she is 15? Her classmate that was interviewed is 18 and I doubt Little Miss Rag Doll is some sort of math prodigy taking algebra her sophomore year.

When I was in high school plenty of 15 year olds could take algebra. What you're thinking of is calculus.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

When I was in high school plenty of 15 year olds could take algebra. What you're thinking of is calculus.

Loren, he said he was being hyperbolic, but what he actually meant was parabolic.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In other words, you get to break the rules with impunity so long as you obey just before they're actually enforced.

That's not the real world!

She did what she was told: she complied.

The 'real world' is not that if you break a rule, the police get to come and drag you out of your chair by your hair and clothing and assault you and arrest you.

You seem to have confused the real world with Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 1, Episode 8: Justice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

She complied only after she knew the teacher had summoned help.