South Carolina police officer investigated after slamming student to ground at Spring Valley High

[Derec]

Our school liaison officers was "Smiley" Miley. I read a few years after I got out of school that he got that he got busted for kiddie-diddling.

That's why he was always smiling...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

... I doubt Little Miss Rag Doll is some sort of math prodigy taking algebra her sophomore year.

So you think that if someone takes algebra their sophomore year, they are a math prodigy??

 

[Derec]

So you think that if someone takes algebra their sophomore year, they are a math prodigy??

It's called hyperbole.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So you think that if someone takes algebra their sophomore year, they are a math prodigy??

It's called hyperbole.

So you think you can use hyperbole in place of an argument. Sorry, but you can't.

 

[Toni]

I'd take it with a whole shaker of salt then.

To flavor the bullshit you decide is acceptable criteria upon which to base your opinions? Someone in that class is identified as being 18 so EVERYBODY is 18?
Talk about selective reasoning. Or 'reasoning.'

In our very mediocre local school district, and even the piss poor one I attended, students can take algebrain 8th grade.

Being able to take it in principle and there being any likelihood that she is taking it her sophomore year are quite different animals.

Point? You have no idea how old she is. Given that her identity is not public, it is extremely likely she is a minor. Under 18.

Which is still years behind schools in most industrial nations. I'm truly sorry if you didn't have the opportunity to take algebra before you were 18.

You really love to make it personal, don't you? Typical lefty debating tactics - try to belittle the opponent. I took algebra long before 18, but I also know many people these days (in the US at least) enter college needing remedial algebra.

I genuinely did not intend to belittle you, Derec. Frankly, I am concerned in general at how poorly our (by: our, I mean our nation, in general. There are exceptions and some schools do an excellent job) schools serve students, how they hold them back and presume they are not capable of doing intellectual work. It is shocking to me.

I wasn't trying to imply anything about you, Derec. I think you are an intelligent person. I think you are often quite wrong, but I don't think you are not intelligent. I think that EVERYBODY deserves the best possible education.

When you seemed surprised that a 15 year old might be in an algebra class, I guess I inferred that you perhaps did not have the chance to take algebra until later. That seems to have been an error on my part. I certainly did not mean to imply that you would not have been ready or capable of taking algebra at 15 or younger. Some school systems don't do a very good job of providing the right classes to students.


You are correct that today, too many students require remedial algebra in college. They did back a million years when I was in school, too. They just called it something else.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The videos showed a sheriff’s deputy assigned to Spring Valley High School struggling with a 16-year-old girl who had refused to stand and leave her math class, after the teacher reportedly caught her using her phone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/us/spring-valley-high-school-sc-officer-arrest.html

Emphasis added, but frankly I don't care that much how old she was.

 

[Toni]

So you think that if someone takes algebra their sophomore year, they are a math prodigy??

It's called hyperbole.

For a second there, I thought it was racism.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Derec]

So you think you can use hyperbole in place of an argument. Sorry, but you can't.

It's a rhetorical device which was part of an argument. It is my experience that kids with behavioral problems rarely take algebra early.

- - - Updated - - -

For a second there, I thought it was racism.

How very like you to jump to that particular conclusion.

 

[Derec]

The videos showed a sheriff’s deputy assigned to Spring Valley High School struggling with a 16-year-old girl who had refused to stand and leave her math class, after the teacher reportedly caught her using her phone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/us/spring-valley-high-school-sc-officer-arrest.html

Emphasis added, but frankly I don't care that much how old she was.

So I was right, she was not 15...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It is my experience that kids with behavioral problems rarely take algebra early.

A single act of non-compliance does not imply "behavioral problems" to logical persons.

 

[zorq]

No. This would be a terrible system--it would be a major encouragement to fighting the police. This isn't a liberal fantasy world where there's always a good solution if you just look hard enough. The real world involves a lot of choices between lesser evils--and yanking her out of the chair is the lesser evil here--although a stun gun might have been better.

Risking a spinal injury is a lesser evil than 20 kids losing the remaining 15 minutes of class time? Really? Really?

You better stay the hell away from me any my family with values like that! Seriously. I am seriously nauseated by your attitude. Your disregard for the health of other people makes me sick.

While you are right that there are a lot of choices between lesser evils the officer's choice in this situation was FAR from the least evil. You really are blind to the option of de-esclating situations. Here are 6 evils that are less evil than risking injury to a non-aggressive person.

1. Just let her sit there quietly using her cell phone. Deal with her after class. See the * below.
2. Talk to her calmly but forcefully letting her know the full consequences of her actions. Once she is fully informed, give her an option with serious consequences like suspension and expulsion for continued non compliance and less severe consequences for immediate compliance. If she remains non-compliant, Deal with her after class *.
3. Ask all the other students to leave the room. Continue the lesson as best as possible in the cafeteria, gym, quad, or hallway while administrators deal with her *
4. Ask everyone to leave the room and close the windows. Tell her that if she doesn't let an authority figure escort her to the office that she can stay but you will detonate a stink bomb in the room and she will smell horrible for a week. Again if that doesn't work: *
5. Remove her from the room by lifting the desk with her in it. She'll only be injured if she actively resists which would make it her fault.
6. Insult her and call her names. Let her know the ridicule will continue until she becomes compliant. If it works, apologize promptly and sincerely as she is escorted out of class. If that doesn't work, deal with her after class * (Note: still less evil than risking serious injury)

* How do you deal with her after class?
Mostly just talk to her. Once all of her peers are no longer in eye sight or hearing range so that they can't judge her, and once you can better control the tone of the interaction her temperament is much more likely to become compliant. Explain the rules and give the reasons for the rules existence. Explain the rules she broke and why they are important. If she still refuses to leave her seat, explain the pointlessness of sitting there because she can't sit there forever and every request for compliance that she denies brings her more severe consequences. Have a school councilor talk to her. Try talking to her friends and see if they are willing to try to get her to help you. Call her parents/guardian and have them talk to her. Still nothing: Let her stay there until the end of the school day. She'll get hungry eventually and leave. It really won't ever get to this point though. At this point she will have been expelled and she won't be coming back to school anyway.

The best part of all this: You haven't put a kid in a wheelchair for the rest of their life or (killed her with a stun-gun if she has a heart condition). for the horrible offense of using a cell phone in class and uttering the word "No."


What kind of person ARE you?

 

[Toni]

It's a rhetorical device which was part of an argument. It is my experience that kids with behavioral problems rarely take algebra early.

- - - Updated - - -

For a second there, I thought it was racism.

How very like you to jump to that particular conclusion.

I should have known better. There's an exception to every rule.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/us/spring-valley-high-school-sc-officer-arrest.html

Emphasis added, but frankly I don't care that much how old she was.

So I was right, she was not 15...

You were wrong: she's not 18.

But cute spin.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The girl had in fact, put her cell phone away when she was ordered out of the classroom. Which is why she didn't comply: she wasn't violating class policy.

In other words, you get to break the rules with impunity so long as you obey just before they're actually enforced.

That's not the real world!

 

[Toni]

The girl had in fact, put her cell phone away when she was ordered out of the classroom. Which is why she didn't comply: she wasn't violating class policy.

In other words, you get to break the rules with impunity so long as you obey just before they're actually enforced.

That's not the real world!

She did what she was told: she complied.

The 'real world' is not that if you break a rule, the police get to come and drag you out of your chair by your hair and clothing and assault you and arrest you.

You seem to have confused the real world with Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 1, Episode 8: Justice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

 

[Rhea]

No. This would be a terrible system--it would be a major encouragement to fighting the police. This isn't a liberal fantasy world where there's always a good solution if you just look hard enough. The real world involves a lot of choices between lesser evils--and yanking her out of the chair is the lesser evil here--although a stun gun might have been better.

But you know what? Dragging the chair to the hallway wouldn't have even looked silly. It would have looked compassionate, caring. He would have made his _next_ encounter much easier by being that cop who cares about you instead of that cop who is a brainless brute.

Till she gets hurt on the doorway.

What? No.

Have you ever even _been_ in high school? Sarcastic question because of course you have, but for the love of reason do you actually think her behavior is out of the ordinary? Sheeeeit. I did far far far worse than that in school. And they managed not to disrupt entire classes dealing with me. This is common behavior. That is uncommon reaction.


Imma tell my kids the next time they say "no" to something, BAMMO! Gotta head off anarchy!

You are so weird thinking everyone needs to be beat up and shot into compliance. SO weird.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The girl had in fact, put her cell phone away when she was ordered out of the classroom. Which is why she didn't comply: she wasn't violating class policy.

In other words, you get to break the rules with impunity so long as you obey just before they're actually enforced.

That's not the real world!

WOW! If you tell your kid at home to eat his vegetables and he doesn't listen, would you also call the police on him? If a two year old doesn't comply, would you expect the police officer to throw him across the room?

 

[Rhea]

Where do you get the idea that she is 15? Her classmate that was interviewed is 18 and I doubt Little Miss Rag Doll is some sort of math prodigy taking algebra her sophomore year.

Her classmate referenced her age as 15 or 16 on the video in the article I linked. You really should take a look.

Not that being 18 was any justification for the officer's horrific behavior.

In our very mediocre local school district, and even the piss poor one I attended, students can take algebrain 8th grade. Which is still years behind schools in most industrial nations. I'm truly sorry if you didn't have the opportunity to take algebra before you were 18.

My son was in Algebra at 14. They teach it in sophomore year nowadays, dude. Geometry Freshman year, Algebra for Sophomores, Trig and precalc in Junior year. Calc in Senior. If you're in the unhurried classes, maybe as lat at Junior year for Algebra. My son's a junior, he's 15. Not a skipped grade 15, a regular student (granted his birthday is in the last week before the cut-off). As a 15yo Junior his class ranges from his 15yo up to some at 17yo. That's a typical Junior class.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, there is force and then there is force.

Dragging the desk is force, but it isn't battery.

or what a friend of mine did with a similar situation

When the student would not leave the class room, the assistant principal was called not the police. He asked the student to come with him, the student refused. The principal then asked a couple of football players who were also in the class to help him. They then lifted the desk with the student in it and carried student and desk out into the hall. Once there was no audience, the student got out of the desk and went to the office.

Again, a use of force, but not a battery.

And if the football players dropped the desk, lawsuit city.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So tell us about the 14 year old boy, Derec.

What's there to tell?

We don't know. Please tell us about it in a new thread.

I only used him as an example that, contrary to your implication, it isn't only female students SROs use force on.

Your hyperbole is ineffectual and boring. You should instead make an honest thread about the boy.

 

[Toni]

Her classmate referenced her age as 15 or 16 on the video in the article I linked. You really should take a look.

Not that being 18 was any justification for the officer's horrific behavior.

In our very mediocre local school district, and even the piss poor one I attended, students can take algebrain 8th grade. Which is still years behind schools in most industrial nations. I'm truly sorry if you didn't have the opportunity to take algebra before you were 18.

My son was in Algebra at 14. They teach it in sophomore year nowadays, dude. Geometry Freshman year, Algebra for Sophomores, Trig and precalc in Junior year. Calc in Senior. If you're in the unhurried classes, maybe as lat at Junior year for Algebra. My son's a junior, he's 15. Not a skipped grade 15, a regular student (granted his birthday is in the last week before the cut-off). As a 15yo Junior his class ranges from his 15yo up to some at 17yo. That's a typical Junior class.

Ah, in my high school, freshmen took algebra; sophomores took geometry. If you were a seriously college bound student, you took geometry and algebra II. Junior year was trig and pre-calc. or second year algebra, depending on what you signed up for. Senior year: calc. or trig/pre-calc.

It was similar for my kids in a different state, although as an 8th grader, you could take algebra if you passed a pretty bullshit test. My siblings kids attend school in the same system we all attended and they could start algebra in 8th grade if they were good students.