Stand Your Ground has another victim

[Jimmy Higgins]

link

Car is parked in handicap spot, probably illegally. Person walks up to car, and gets into argument over whether it is proper for them to be parked there. The person in the car's companion walks out of the store and sees guy arguing with person in car. He pushes the guy over to the ground and walks back.

Person on ground, pulls out his legally concealed weapon, fires bullet into chest of the companion and he died. The shooter was not arrested and the case is being sent up the ladder because of "Stand Your Ground" protocol.

Yes... Florida.

I think this is a dual problem, both Stand Your Ground and Conceal Carry. If the guy doesn't have a gun at all, does he even play Handicap Spot Police? And obviously, Stand Your Ground has lowered the threshold for what is considered a legal manslaughter to a remarkably low level. So we have a guy who started a problem, resorting to gun violence to "protect" himself.

Whether charges are pressed and even if he is convicted, that person died because of Stand Your Ground.

 

[phands]

link

Whether charges are pressed and even if he is convicted, that person died because of Stand Your Ground.

But....guns don't kill people....people do!! Yes, stand your ground is an iniquitous piece of law that should never have been passed. It's time to boycott states with lunatic gun laws.

 

[Sarpedon]

Stand Your Ground, working exactly as designed.

Lynching for the 21st Century.

 

[prideandfall]

note this is a crusty old white guy who, according to employees of the convenience store, trolled the store parking lot and repeatedly complained or yelled at people for using the handicap spots without a permit.
and the person shot and killed is a black man, which i'm sure means he was a gang banger who had just robbed the place and murdered at least 3 innocent virgin white teen girls, at least according to derec.

commence operation: utter shock at this sequence of events.

 

[phands]

commence operation: utter shock at this sequence of events.

To be followed by: "Thoughts and prayers public masturbation"?

 

[fromderinside]

pwaaa, pwaaa, pwaaa ....

 

[Derec]

note this is a crusty old white guy who, according to employees of the convenience store, trolled the store parking lot and repeatedly complained or yelled at people for using the handicap spots without a permit.

So the victim was attacked by the "companion" and knocked to the ground, but he is somehow the bad guy here because he is white?
By the way, in what universe is 47 old? And why do you think he is "crusty"? Is it one of your anti-white prejudices?

Also, why is him complaining about handicap spot abusers worse than this Britany chick parking in the handicap spot?

and the person shot and killed is a black man,

According to derec, race of participants should not matter in how we judge any case. Regardless of his race, the guy should not have attacked the other guy.
To you and other lefties, race has paramount importance to see who is in the right and who is in the wrong.

which i'm sure means he was a gang banger who had just robbed the place and murdered at least 3 innocent virgin white teen girls, at least according to derec.

Nobody is saying that, least of all I.
What I am saying, and have been saying, is that background matters in these cases.
When a guy (like Michael Brown) robs a convenience store and attacks a police officer, it is ridiculous to view him as a victim when he gets shot by the police officer he attacked.
And when people say that his robbing activities are irrelevant, then that's just stupid.

Maybe new information about this case will come to light that paints a more complete picture. But as of now, we have two people arguing, but the third guy escalated by knocking the guy to the ground. The man defended himself. After all, with victim being knocked to the ground who knows what the next action of the assailant would have been? It's easy to do real and permanent damage by kicking a person when he is down.

This is the video of the initial attack and the shooting. It was a rather violent push.

 

[Playball40]

So the victim was attacked by the "companion" and knocked to the ground, but he is somehow the bad guy here because he is white?
By the way, in what universe is 47 old? And why do you think he is "crusty"? Is it one of your anti-white prejudices?

Also, why is him complaining about handicap spot abusers worse than this Britany chick parking in the handicap spot?


According to derec, race of participants should not matter in how we judge any case. Regardless of his race, the guy should not have attacked the other guy.
To you and other lefties, race has paramount importance to see who is in the right and who is in the wrong.

which i'm sure means he was a gang banger who had just robbed the place and murdered at least 3 innocent virgin white teen girls, at least according to derec.

Nobody is saying that, least of all I.
What I am saying, and have been saying, is that background matters in these cases.
When a guy (like Michael Brown) robs a convenience store and attacks a police officer, it is ridiculous to view him as a victim when he gets shot by the police officer he attacked.
And when people say that his robbing activities are irrelevant, then that's just stupid.

Maybe new information about this case will come to light that paints a more complete picture. But as of now, we have two people arguing, but the third guy escalated by knocking the guy to the ground. The man defended himself. After all, with victim being knocked to the ground who knows what the next action of the assailant would have been? It's easy to do real and permanent damage by kicking a person when he is down.

The victims girlfriend and children were in the car (his five year old was in the store with him). The shooter approached the car and was aggressively yelling at her (he had been yelling at him and making threats - he went in the store to ask the clerk to call the police). When he came out of the store and the guy was still yelling at his girl friend he shoved him to the ground, and the shooter pulled his gun. The victim CLEARLY BACKED AWAY so there was NO more threat here. He shot him WHILE HE WAS BACKING UP. Stand your ground my ass! This was simply "I'm an asshole and you can't do shit about it because I will shoot you!). The shooters FB page says "I'm an ASSHOLE.....DEAL WITH IT."

 

[Elixir]

So the victim was attacked by the "companion" and knocked to the ground, but he is somehow the bad guy here because he is white?
By the way, in what universe is 47 old? And why do you think he is "crusty"? Is it one of your anti-white prejudices?

Also, why is him complaining about handicap spot abusers worse than this Britany chick parking in the handicap spot?


According to derec, race of participants should not matter in how we judge any case. Regardless of his race, the guy should not have attacked the other guy.
To you and other lefties, race has paramount importance to see who is in the right and who is in the wrong.

which i'm sure means he was a gang banger who had just robbed the place and murdered at least 3 innocent virgin white teen girls, at least according to derec.

Nobody is saying that, least of all I.
What I am saying, and have been saying, is that background matters in these cases.
When a guy (like Michael Brown) robs a convenience store and attacks a police officer, it is ridiculous to view him as a victim when he gets shot by the police officer he attacked.
And when people say that his robbing activities are irrelevant, then that's just stupid.

Maybe new information about this case will come to light that paints a more complete picture. But as of now, we have two people arguing, but the third guy escalated by knocking the guy to the ground. The man defended himself. After all, with victim being knocked to the ground who knows what the next action of the assailant would have been? It's easy to do real and permanent damage by kicking a person when he is down.

The victims girlfriend and children were in the car (his five year old was in the store with him). The shooter approached the car and was aggressively yelling at her (he had been yelling at him and making threats - he went in the store to ask the clerk to call the police). When he came out of the store and the guy was still yelling at his girl friend he shoved him to the ground, and the shooter pulled his gun. The victim CLEARLY BACKED AWAY so there was NO more threat here. He shot him WHILE HE WAS BACKING UP. Stand your ground my ass! This was simply "I'm an asshole and you can't do shit about it because I will shoot you!). The shooters FB page says "I'm an ASSHOLE.....DEAL WITH IT."

Assholes abound. And they defend each other.

 

[sinkorswim]

Looking the "stand your ground" cases I've seen, it looks like this is a convient way for white assholes to harass minorities and then legally shoot them when they get angry and start to stand up to the asshole.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[Derec]

The victims girlfriend and children were in the car (his five year old was in the store with him).

Where are you getting this from? The article form the OP talks about the 5 year old being in the store with the assailant, but does not mention any other children.

Britany Jacobs, 25, was sitting in a car parked in a handicapped space outside a convenience store in Clearwater, Fla., on Thursday afternoon when a man, Michael Drejka, approached her vehicle and started looking for a handicap permit, Sheriff Bob Gualtieri of Pinellas County said at a news conference on Friday. Ms. Jacobs’s boyfriend, Markeis McGlockton, and their 5-year-old son were in the store when Ms. Jacobs and Mr. Drejka began to yell at each other about whether she was permitted to be in that space, Sheriff Gualtieri said.

The shooter approached the car and was aggressively yelling at her (he had been yelling at him and making threats - he went in the store to ask the clerk to call the police).

Where are you getting all this from? The article clearly states that the argument began when McG was already in the store. Nothing about the argument starting, then McG going to the store to call police. Btw, it makes no sense to call the police when you illegally parked. Arguing is not against the law, illegally parking in a handicap spot is.

When he came out of the store and the guy was still yelling at his girl friend he shoved him to the ground, and the shooter pulled his gun. The victim CLEARLY BACKED AWAY so there was NO more threat here. He shot him WHILE HE WAS BACKING UP. Stand your ground my ass! This was simply "I'm an asshole and you can't do shit about it because I will shoot you!).

While the details are up to the prosecutors to decide, I do not see him retreat much in the video. Maybe take a step back. And note the time. It all happened very fast. The guy came up to him and immediately pushed him to the ground with great force (he not only fell, but also rolled some). Undoubtedly dazed by being attacked like that, the victim of the attack pulls a gun and fires. There was no time to think about whether the assailant was retreating or simply wanting to take a running start at kicking him.

The shooters FB page says "I'm an ASSHOLE.....DEAL WITH IT."

That's the risk when you are an asshole yourself and knock a stranger to the ground. You don't know if your victim is also an asshole too. And/or armed. By the way, being a self-declared asshole does not negate your right to self defense.
McG probably thought Drejka was an easy victim. Older than McG by almost two decades, not as physically imposing. He felt big. Until the gun came out.

- - - Updated - - -

Assholes abound. And they defend each other.

Or one shoves the other for complaining that the first asshole (or his asshole girlfriend) parked illegally in a handicap spot.

- - - Updated - - -

Looking the "stand your ground" cases I've seen, it looks like this is a convient way for white assholes to harass minorities and then legally shoot them when they get angry and start to stand up to the asshole.

You have not looked much? The law has been used to free black shooters too.

 

[prideandfall]

So the victim was attacked by the "companion" and knocked to the ground, but he is somehow the bad guy here because he is white?

nope, he's the bad guys here because we live in a god damn society, one that has its very existence predicated on the idea of a social contract in which we collectively more or less agree to not wantonly murder each other all of the time.
see, that's pretty much the only way civilization works, is if a vast preponderance of individuals agree to this and abide by it.

sometimes, circumstances turn up wherein it's reasonable for a person to temporarily suspend their obligation to the social contract.
being shoved, even harshly, simply isn't one of them. trying to do the mental contortions necessary to justify how it ever possibly could be is detrimental to the fabric of civilization as we know it.
when white people use the excuse that "well he was black and therefor scary and therefor i feared for my life and therefor it justified i murdered someone in cold blood because they shoved me" is the sort of mental contortions that are detrimental to the fabric of civilization as we know it.
THAT is why he's the bad guy here, and why you're the bad guy here, and why everyone like you is the bad guy here - because you're actively trying to weaken the foundation of human society, which history teaches us inevitably results in the downtrodden eventually having enough of your shit and rising up one morning and going "oh, i guess we're cutting off everyone's heads today" and laying into the monied class. ever heard of the french revolution? wasn't that long ago.

as a comfortably affluent middle class white male living in an urban environment i am far more trepidatious of the threat of retaliation for the kind of bullshit your ilk is pulling than i am of random acts of illegality from a neglected lower class acting on base human greed.

By the way, in what universe is 47 old?

in every universe wherein sane and practical homo sapien life expectancy is observed.

And why do you think he is "crusty"? Is it one of your anti-white prejudices?

nope that would be my "asshole standing around yelling at people for stupid shit at a 7-11" prejudice.

Also, why is him complaining about handicap spot abusers worse than this Britany chick parking in the handicap spot?

it isn't. murdering someone is worse than giving someone a brisk shove, however.

When a guy (like Michael Brown) robs a convenience store and attacks a police officer, it is ridiculous to view him as a victim when he gets shot by the police officer he attacked.
And when people say that his robbing activities are irrelevant, then that's just stupid.

see here's the problem with your "argument": your entire perspective is based on the idea that human life has some kind of intrinsic and inherent value, and that human property by association has inherent moral value as a consequence of being owned by humans.
however, you pick and choose which humans get to have this inherent value willy-nilly based on their skin color and/or inconsequential action (notably regarding other white people's property) - you have a pretty obvious hierarchy of ethical standards.
white men > white men's property >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> black men >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variously brownish men >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> women.
the first two in the list you seem to deem deserving of dignity, respect, protection, and civility. the rest are of descending orders of disposable based on the extent to which they've offended you personally lately.

Maybe new information about this case will come to light that paints a more complete picture. But as of now, we have two people arguing, but the third guy escalated by knocking the guy to the ground. The man defended himself. After all, with victim being knocked to the ground who knows what the next action of the assailant would have been? It's easy to do real and permanent damage by kicking a person when he is down.

as noted above, this "argument" only works from the foundation that a black man's entire existence is of less inherent value than a white man being shoved, violently or otherwise.

 

[Elixir]

nope, he's the bad guys here because we live in a god damn society, one that has its very existence predicated on the idea of a social contract in which we collectively more or less agree to not wantonly murder each other all of the time.
see, that's pretty much the only way civilization works, is if a vast preponderance of individuals agree to this and abide by it.

sometimes, circumstances turn up wherein it's reasonable for a person to temporarily suspend their obligation to the social contract.
being shoved, even harshly, simply isn't one of them. trying to do the mental contortions necessary to justify how it ever possibly could be is detrimental to the fabric of civilization as we know it.
when white people use the excuse that "well he was black and therefor scary and therefor i feared for my life and therefor it justified i murdered someone in cold blood because they shoved me" is the sort of mental contortions that are detrimental to the fabric of civilization as we know it.
THAT is why he's the bad guy here, and why you're the bad guy here, and why everyone like you is the bad guy here - because you're actively trying to weaken the foundation of human society, which history teaches us inevitably results in the downtrodden eventually having enough of your shit and rising up one morning and going "oh, i guess we're cutting off everyone's heads today" and laying into the monied class. ever heard of the french revolution? wasn't that long ago.

as a comfortably affluent middle class white male living in an urban environment i am far more trepidatious of the threat of retaliation for the kind of bullshit your ilk is pulling than i am of random acts of illegality from a neglected lower class acting on base human greed.


in every universe wherein sane and practical homo sapien life expectancy is observed.

And why do you think he is "crusty"? Is it one of your anti-white prejudices?

nope that would be my "asshole standing around yelling at people for stupid shit at a 7-11" prejudice.

Also, why is him complaining about handicap spot abusers worse than this Britany chick parking in the handicap spot?

it isn't. murdering someone is worse than giving someone a brisk shove, however.

When a guy (like Michael Brown) robs a convenience store and attacks a police officer, it is ridiculous to view him as a victim when he gets shot by the police officer he attacked.
And when people say that his robbing activities are irrelevant, then that's just stupid.

see here's the problem with your "argument": your entire perspective is based on the idea that human life has some kind of intrinsic and inherent value, and that human property by association has inherent moral value as a consequence of being owned by humans.
however, you pick and choose which humans get to have this inherent value willy-nilly based on their skin color and/or inconsequential action (notably regarding other white people's property) - you have a pretty obvious hierarchy of ethical standards.
white men > white men's property >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> black men >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variously brownish men >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> women.
the first two in the list you seem to deem deserving of dignity, respect, protection, and civility. the rest are of descending orders of disposable based on the extent to which they've offended you personally lately.

Maybe new information about this case will come to light that paints a more complete picture. But as of now, we have two people arguing, but the third guy escalated by knocking the guy to the ground. The man defended himself. After all, with victim being knocked to the ground who knows what the next action of the assailant would have been? It's easy to do real and permanent damage by kicking a person when he is down.

as noted above, this "argument" only works from the foundation that a black man's entire existence is of less inherent value than a white man being shoved, violently or otherwise.

Reverse the color scheme to a black person shooting and killing a white person who shoved him, and I'm sure you'd see some understanding of the dynamic at hand and some outrage at the shooter from the racist defenders of the perp in this case.

 

[ZiprHead]

note this is a crusty old white guy who, according to employees of the convenience store, trolled the store parking lot and repeatedly complained or yelled at people for using the handicap spots without a permit.
and the person shot and killed is a black man, which i'm sure means he was a gang banger who had just robbed the place and murdered at least 3 innocent virgin white teen girls, at least according to derec.

commence operation: utter shock at this sequence of events.

Like an unofficial neighborhood watch person we've discussed before?

 

[scombrid]

Maybe new information about this case will come to light that paints a more complete picture. But as of now, we have two people arguing, but the third guy escalated by knocking the guy to the ground. The man defended himself. After all, with victim being knocked to the ground who knows what the next action of the assailant would have been? It's easy to do real and permanent damage by kicking a person when he is down.

The dead guy was backing up when he was shot so I think that we can safely say that he was not going to kick the original assailant.

Plus, the dead guy walks out of the store just in time to see the shooter nose to nose with his partner. Why shouldn't the victim be allowed to defend his family? The guy might have looked like a threat because he was so close to the woman.

Are you going to dig into the background of the shooter since "background matters in these cases"?

 

[Harry Bosch]

It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police. Memo to self: be careful attacking anyone in Florida! Size and age don't matter if someone has a gun.

 

[prideandfall]

It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police.

so... what you're saying is being "well known to the police" invalidates the value of a human's life and makes their existence irrelevant?

what other criteria evaporates the fundamental worth of human life to you?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police.

so... what you're saying is being "well known to the police" invalidates the value of a human's life and makes their existence irrelevant?

what other criteria evaporates the fundamental worth of human life to you?

Harry Bosch didn't say that.

What I would object to is the word "attack". The person saw a confrontation by their car and intervened. Intervened a bit much, but I wouldn't call it an attack.

 

[phands]

It doesn't appear that the victim was a good guy either. Appears that he was well known to police. Memo to self: be careful attacking anyone in Florida! Size and age don't matter if someone has a gun.

Memo to self: Stay the fuck away from Florida completely. Guns have no place in a civilized society.

 

[scombrid]

This is the video of the initial attack and the shooting. It was a rather violent push.

Had the intention been great bodily harm then a sucker punch or choke hold or going straight to ground would have been more likely than a shove.