Suburban security guard stops shooter, gets killed by police

[Tom Sawyer]

I responded to what looked like the second one.

Use better paragraph breaks in the future to avoid confusion.

 

[Gun Nut]

.. then my second paragraph applies.

It is also understood that if the police are called and you are holding someone at gunpoint, both you and the person being held at gun point are probably BOTH getting arrested. The "good guy" will probably be released in a few hours if his permits are in order (if needed) and there are witnesses confirming you were being a good Samaritan... and all the stories check out.

Arrested. Yep. That's what happened here. The cop arrived, saw the man holding a gun, and promptly arrested him. Thank goodness he was released a few hours later after his story checked out.

right... that's what should have happened... so what went wrong? After the cop yelled at the guard to drop the weapon, what did he do?

 

[Ford]

Arrested. Yep. That's what happened here. The cop arrived, saw the man holding a gun, and promptly arrested him. Thank goodness he was released a few hours later after his story checked out.

right... that's what should have happened... so what went wrong? After the cop yelled at the guard to drop the weapon, what did he do?

There is nothing in the story to indicate that the officer yelled at the guard to drop the weapon. You inserted that part.

 

[laughing dog]

This "guard" made a bad mistake... failing to stow his weapon after the threat was gone... that makes him the NEW threat.

Please provide a link that corroborates your claim of what happened.

 

[Jarhyn]

This "guard" made a bad mistake... failing to stow his weapon after the threat was gone... that makes him the NEW threat.

Please provide a link that corroborates your claim of what happened.

Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on that, too. When you have an active shooter subdued on the ground, within arms reach of a weapon (namely the one you have on them), you don't remove it until you have assistance subduing the guy.

 

[Gun Nut]

This "guard" made a bad mistake... failing to stow his weapon after the threat was gone... that makes him the NEW threat.

Please provide a link that corroborates your claim of what happened.

Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on that, too. When you have an active shooter subdued on the ground, within arms reach of a weapon (namely the one you have on them), you don't remove it until you have assistance subduing the guy.

correct. Where is the information about what EXACTLY happened after the police were called and when they arrived? I have only been saying what SHOULD have happened... and what definitely would have had to have happened for him to get shot by a cop just arriving on scene.
Cop shoots man with gun, who happens to be black... That may be enough for many of you to just know what happened... but others operate differently... especially when we are talking about guns.... it is important to be procedural and careful... was he?

 

[Gun Nut]

I can't find any details on what happened between when the cops arrived, witnesses in the bar exclaimed, "He's Security", and the cop opening fire. All any articles says is "some time after, the cop opened fire"... Some time? How much time and what was happening during that time... that is the critical piece of info.
Another piece of interesting information is that while the guard had a permit to OWN a gun, he did not have a permit to concealed carry a gun. This means that he didn't take the required class or classes that would have taught him what to do in this situation, which would have started with good information being provided to the 911 operator (description of perp, description of guard, so no confusion - that is taught), securing of the weapon (and the perm, obviously), and clear communication with the police upon engagement.

The 911 call should have gone like this "My name is <>. I am located at <>. Active shooter at <location> wearing <description>. Local Security has engaged and he is wearing <description>. Multiple injuries with gunshot wounds, please send an ambulance."
At that point, if YOU are the one that has shot someone in defense, then it is time to simply hang up the phone, despite everything the 911 operator would tell you (stay on the line). Don't. Hang up with 911, and call your lawyer. If you are just a witness, do what you want... whatever is the safest course of action for you.

 

[laughing dog]

I can't find any details on what happened between when the cops arrived, witnesses in the bar exclaimed, "He's Security", and the cop opening fire. All any articles says is "some time after, the cop opened fire"... Some time? How much time and what was happening during that time... that is the critical piece of info.
Another piece of interesting information is that while the guard had a permit to OWN a gun, he did not have a permit to concealed carry a gun. This means that he didn't take the required class or classes that would have taught him what to do in this situation, which would have started with good information being provided to the 911 operator (description of perp, description of guard, so no confusion - that is taught), securing of the weapon (and the perm, obviously), and clear communication with the police upon engagement.

Once again, you are making stuff up. You have no idea whether this man had the right training or not. We have no idea whether this security guard was in uniform. We have no idea what information the police officer was given. We have no idea what the police officer did, other than kill the security guard.

We do know one of the "good guys" was killed. In the absence of more information , that suggests the police officer screwed up.

 

[RavenSky]

Arrested. Yep. That's what happened here. The cop arrived, saw the man holding a gun, and promptly arrested him. Thank goodness he was released a few hours later after his story checked out.

right... that's what should have happened... so what went wrong? After the cop yelled at the guard to drop the weapon, what did he do?

He was black

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Key: "man with a gun". If you're in a situation where the police are coming you do not want a gun in your hand!

if you are black.

No matter what the color of your skin. You don't want a gun in hand when the cops show up!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

If you wish to avoid being shot and are any color..
It is standard procedure to holster your weapon when the threat is eliminated. There is no reason to wave a gun around when it is not being used... no wonder someone thought he was the perp.. that is not how a guard acts.
It is also understood that if the police are called and you are holding someone at gunpoint, both you and the person being held at gun point are probably BOTH getting arrested. The "good guy" will probably be released in a few hours if his permits are in order (if needed) and there are witnesses confirming you were being a good Samaritan... and all the stories check out.
This "guard" made a bad mistake... failing to stow his weapon after the threat was gone... that makes him the NEW threat.

The thread wasn't eliminated. The guard had subdued the guy, but he was still there unrestrained. The "after the threat was gone" part was what should have happened after the cops got there and put handcuffs on him.

.. then my second paragraph applies.

Apparently the cops who shot and killed the guard didn't get your memo.

 

[laughing dog]

Key: "man with a gun". If you're in a situation where the police are coming you do not want a gun in your hand!

if you are black.

No matter what the color of your skin. You don't want a gun in hand when the cops show up!

Using your logic, the police who showed up after the shooting could open fire on the other police officer since he had a gun in his hand.

Having a weapon in one's hand in the USA is not necessarily illegal nor automatically threatening. For the police or their defenders to use that as an excuse should be unacceptable to any rational civilized person.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Key: "man with a gun". If you're in a situation where the police are coming you do not want a gun in your hand!

if you are black.

If you wish to avoid being shot and are any color..
It is standard procedure to holster your weapon when the threat is eliminated. There is no reason to wave a gun around when it is not being used... no wonder someone thought he was the perp.. that is not how a guard acts.
It is also understood that if the police are called and you are holding someone at gunpoint, both you and the person being held at gun point are probably BOTH getting arrested. The "good guy" will probably be released in a few hours if his permits are in order (if needed) and there are witnesses confirming you were being a good Samaritan... and all the stories check out.
This "guard" made a bad mistake... failing to stow his weapon after the threat was gone... that makes him the NEW threat.

The threat wasn't gone.

 

[ZiprHead]

I can't find any details on what happened between when the cops arrived, witnesses in the bar exclaimed, "He's Security", and the cop opening fire. All any articles says is "some time after, the cop opened fire"... Some time? How much time and what was happening during that time... that is the critical piece of info.
Another piece of interesting information is that while the guard had a permit to OWN a gun, he did not have a permit to concealed carry a gun. This means that he didn't take the required class or classes that would have taught him what to do in this situation, which would have started with good information being provided to the 911 operator (description of perp, description of guard, so no confusion - that is taught), securing of the weapon (and the perm, obviously), and clear communication with the police upon engagement.

Once again, you are making stuff up. You have no idea whether this man had the right training or not. We have no idea whether this security guard was in uniform. We have no idea what information the police officer was given. We have no idea what the police officer did, other than kill the security guard.

We do know one of the "good guys" was killed. In the absence of more information , that suggests the police officer screwed up.

Actually I just read today that the guard was in uniform.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

No matter what the color of your skin. You don't want a gun in hand when the cops show up!

Using your logic, the police who showed up after the shooting could open fire on the other police officer since he had a gun in his hand.

Having a weapon in one's hand in the USA is not necessarily illegal nor automatically threatening. For the police or their defenders to use that as an excuse should be unacceptable to any rational civilized person.

I understand where you're coming from in principle, but the fact is that in a live-fire situation, having a weapon in one's hand marks you as a bigger threat in the mind of the LEO. Nothing excuses illegal police shootings, but we should try to understand what's going on in those situations rather than applying good principles that don't really take into account things like human fear or limited situational awareness.

That doesn't apply here, given that the guard was in uniform. I'm speaking generally.

 

[bilby]

If only outlaws have guns, it makes the job of the police in deciding who is an outlaw a LOT easier. Just sayin'.

 

[laughing dog]

No matter what the color of your skin. You don't want a gun in hand when the cops show up!

Using your logic, the police who showed up after the shooting could open fire on the other police officer since he had a gun in his hand.

Having a weapon in one's hand in the USA is not necessarily illegal nor automatically threatening. For the police or their defenders to use that as an excuse should be unacceptable to any rational civilized person.

I understand where you're coming from in principle, but the fact is that in a live-fire situation, having a weapon in one's hand marks you as a bigger threat in the mind of the LEO. Nothing excuses illegal police shootings, but we should try to understand what's going on in those situations rather than applying good principles that don't really take into account things like human fear or limited situational awareness.

Police officers are supposed to trained to deal with fear and to assess the situations.

One of my sons served in Afghanistan. One of his duties was to go on walking tours in villages where every male was armed. They were under strict orders to only shoot when actually attacked (i.e. fired upon). If soldiers in a combat situation can withhold their fire until fired upon, I think police officers can hold their fire until at least a gun is pointed towards them.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

Is there a "cover-up" of this story?

Has this story been reported in any of the mainline media, nationally? PBS Newshour seems to have ignored it. Plus also the daytime radio talk shows.

Is there a reason why this story would be played down?

By comparison, they played up the Ferguson MO story. In that one they made a hero martyr out of the Black victim, who had attacked the cop and a store owner. There were publicized protest marches to honor him, his funeral was broadcast on the national news, with many celebrities in attendance, and he was eulogized as a role model. He's a folk hero who will be named in the history books 100 years from now.

And yet here in this security guard incident we have a genuine hero shot by cops, and there's little interest in the story, and he'll be forgotten.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Key: "man with a gun". If you're in a situation where the police are coming you do not want a gun in your hand!

BULL FUCKING SHIT!!!

What do we hear with shootings? The place should have had security. Well, this place had a shooting, security apprehended one of the shooters, security was killed by the police.

 

[RavenSky]

"We all yelled. 'He's a security. He's a security,' and without ... giving any thought, they shot him," Harris told the station. "The vest said security as well ... and they shot him in the side."

The suspected gunman in the initial bar shooting is being treated at a local hospital and has not been charged, Ansari said.

So the "good guy with a gun" is dead - shot by police - while the "bad guy with a gun" is alive and not even charged with a crime yet.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/us/security-officer-police-shooting-suburban-chicago/index.html