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Sudan Massacre

I do object a great deal to any official religion, religious intolerance ( by, for). I see how religion affects different people in different t ways, good and bad, and I see the need it fills for some people. I’ve also seen it used to justify slavery, homophobia, eschewing much needed mental health interventions/therapy and medical care, racism and a whole lot of other isms that basically exist in service to greed and lust for power.
Uh huh. There’s only one solution, and everyone agrees what it is;
Everyone should be a good _______ and everyone would get along in perfect harmony.

All that needs to be decided, is how to fill in the blank, and that’s what is currently under uh, “consideration”.
Let the wars continue!

Suckers.
 
I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem
Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.
Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?
Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.
Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?
Again: Coming to a country near you. See Project 2025.

Now, maybe we'll get lucky and avoid all of that but it isn't because the US electorate has made good decisions recently.
Do you genuinely and truly believe that the US is headed for becoming WORSE THAN afghanistan, and therefore chistianity is far far worse than islam?
Did I say that I truly believe "that the US is headed for becoming WORSE THAN afghanistan, and therefore chistianity (sic) is far far worse than islam?"

Think real hard Ems. DID I SAY THAT?
For the hundredth time, if you have to ask, the answer is NO.
You'd be a much more credible poster if you could possibly refrain from putting YOUR thoughts in the heads of OTHERS.
Was this a response to you, Elixir? Or are you getting bent out of shape about my response to someone else and taking it personally?

On the other hand, Toni did actually say that modern day christianity is an equal threat to islam. Because Trump and Project 2025, apparently.
 
What's your point? Emily and I didn't claim all or even most Muslims are murderers. Of course you know some who aren't. So do I. How the bejesus is that supposed to show one religion isn't more dangerous than another?
Well thereya go!
IT DOESN'T
Nor has anyone else shown that one religion is more dangerous than another which is why I took issue with Emily saying "Islam is the problem".
CAPISCHE?
Sure, sure, because the nations where islam is the dominant religion are bastions of freedom, democracy, and progress. Islam *is* the problem. In a much more blatantly obvious way than you seem to want to consider.

That doesn't mean that other religions are not problems, but islam is objectively a much bigger and more immediate problem than any of the others.
 
You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.
Who hates Christianity? Not me!

Are you letting your hatred of Islam blind you?

Right now, there is a rise in fundamentalism in Christianity and in Islam that is frankly against the core teachings of both religions, which is only serving to spur hatred and conflict—and enormous profits. Look at the money trail!

Or look at the former Soviet Union and post Revolutionary China and their suppression of all religion. Did it make them less authoritarian? More tolerant?
 
But this pretense that christianity is just as bad as islam because several hundred years ago some christians in pre-democratic societies waged religious wars is nutty.
The USA is currently waging a religious war on Muslims, so therefore USA is pre-democratic (the latter is true of course regardless of its Islamaphobia.
Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?
Easy - the USA. Of course not as drastically as what you mention, but getting there, or it would be if massive resistance wasn't growing, that spikes the dominionists' plans.
On the other hand, Toni did actually say that modern day christianity is an equal threat to islam. Because Trump and Project 2025, apparently.
It is . Read this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_the_United_St
The problems in USA existed long before Project 2025, but it seeks to amplify them.
That doesn't mean that other religions are not problems, but islam is objectively a much bigger and more immediate problem than any of the others.
In the USA, Australia, NZ, and so on Islam is not a threat, but Christianity is, especially in USA.
In 2019, Australian Brenton Harrison Tarrant in Christchurch, NZ, attacked a mosque and an Islamic Centre, killing 51 people. He was a right-wing Islamaphobe. Similar incidents against Christians have not occurred.
 
Or look at the former Soviet Union and post Revolutionary China and their suppression of all religion. Did it make them less authoritarian? More tolerant?
It produced cultural and human tragedy, a lamentably common story all over the world for millennia. Those examples are just some of the latest and the greatest. One of the biggest historical drivers of such over the centuries IMO has been climate change. We blame the gods, and maybe rub the noses off the old ones when the real one(s) who didn’t cause the famine gains favor.
Swiz is correct that climate does change naturally. But he omits that entire human cultures get dislocated or obliterated in the process, sometimes rather suddenly.
Scientific progress has yielded unforetold abilities to predict weather, even for specific areas. The very same climatological methodology predicts climate change, rates of change and dominance of certain factors to certain regions.
This gives some Santa Monica locals a justifiable secure feeling, as it should, since it is deemed likely that they won’t live to have to deal with it. Of course, sometimes it rains on days when clear weather is predicted, and similar error bars can be expected in climate science.
Who ya gonna Sue?
😊
 
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But this pretense that christianity is just as bad as islam because several hundred years ago some christians in pre-democratic societies waged religious wars is nutty.
The USA is currently waging a religious war on Muslims, so therefore USA is pre-democratic (the latter is true of course regardless of its Islamaphobia.
Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?
Easy - the USA. Of course not as drastically as what you mention, but getting there, or it would be if massive resistance wasn't growing, that spikes the dominionists' plans.
On the other hand, Toni did actually say that modern day christianity is an equal threat to islam. Because Trump and Project 2025, apparently.
It is . Read this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_the_United_St
The problems in USA existed long before Project 2025, but it seeks to amplify them.
That doesn't mean that other religions are not problems, but islam is objectively a much bigger and more immediate problem than any of the others.
In the USA, Australia, NZ, and so on Islam is not a threat, but Christianity is, especially in USA.
In 2019, Australian Brenton Harrison Tarrant in Christchurch, NZ, attacked a mosque and an Islamic Centre, killing 51 people. He was a right-wing Islamaphobe. Similar incidents against Christians have not occurred.
In Nigeria Christians seem to be regularly massacred, driven away etc. by Islamists
 
You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.

You are making up personal attacks to substitute an argument. Many of us, myself included, do not hate Christianity. I've said over and over again that religion is neutral, like a hammer. A thing that is so extensive and contradictory like the bible can be used to support any kind of belief. This means that believers are prone to external influences, whether it is the people leading them or the times that they live in with those external variables. A previous post you bashed but did not understand was discussing history exactly because it shows how such religions can interact with different external variables. There simply isn't anything inherent in Christianity to not have the majority of its adherents regress when those variables show up again.
 
In Nigeria Christians seem to be regularly massacred, driven away etc. by Islamists
In China, Uighurs are routinely massacred and enslaved. So what? That doesn’t make Xtians “better” than Chinese people.
Nobody claimed Xtians are "better" than Muslim people. That isn't what's in dispute. T!'s point appears to be that SI's limitation of the discussion to English-speaking former colonies is an arbitrary limitation, and when we look at the full picture his "Similar incidents against Christians have not occurred." claim is unsupportable.

As to the larger issue, SI was challenging Emily's contention that Islam is a greater threat than Christianity. It's about the relative merits of the ideologies, not the relative merits of the people themselves. Among the people themselves in every religion, there are good people, and murderers, and assholes who never killed anyone but are susceptible to being flipped into murderer mode if their religion encourages it. Emily is in effect claiming Islam is better than Christianity at mobilizing its assholes. So to your point that in China, Uighurs are routinely massacred and enslaved. So what? So you had to get your example from China, not from a Christian-majority country. It appears that Communism is also better than Christianity at mobilizing its assholes. If you want to make the case that Communism is better than Islam at mobilizing its assholes, knock yourself out.
 
But this pretense that christianity is just as bad as islam because several hundred years ago some christians in pre-democratic societies waged religious wars is nutty.
The USA is currently waging a religious war on Muslims, so therefore USA is pre-democratic (the latter is true of course regardless of its Islamaphobia.
Which ongoing American military adventure are you characterizing as "a religious war on Muslims"?

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?
Easy - the USA. Of course not as drastically as what you mention, but getting there, or it would be if massive resistance wasn't growing, that spikes the dominionists' plans.
So, none. Is it the Australian press that paints you this absurd picture of America, or are you getting it from some internet echo chamber?

That doesn't mean that other religions are not problems, but islam is objectively a much bigger and more immediate problem than any of the others.
In the USA, Australia, NZ, and so on Islam is not a threat, but Christianity is, especially in USA.
In 2019, Australian Brenton Harrison Tarrant in Christchurch, NZ, attacked a mosque and an Islamic Centre, killing 51 people. He was a right-wing Islamaphobe. Similar incidents against Christians have not occurred.
You had to go back six years for that. That averages out to nine people a year. In 2001, some Saudi Islamists in New York, USA, attacked the WTC, killing about 2400 Christians. That averages out to one hundred people a year.
 
Nobody claimed Xtians are "better" than Muslim people.
“Islam is the problem” belies that assertion
Apology. You’re right. Separating religions from their adherents avoids the comparison.
Communism is also better than Christianity
So is peanut butter.
Somewhere here, lies a category error.
Not worth arguing. Emily’s emotional outbursts rarely are.
Still applies.
 
You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.
Who hates Christianity? Not me!

Are you letting your hatred of Islam blind you?

Right now, there is a rise in fundamentalism in Christianity and in Islam that is frankly against the core teachings of both religions, which is only serving to spur hatred and conflict—and enormous profits. Look at the money trail!

Or look at the former Soviet Union and post Revolutionary China and their suppression of all religion. Did it make them less authoritarian? More tolerant?
You're the one who has opined that christianity is at least as big a risk as islam is. Whether you consider it against the core teachings of the religions or not, I think it's willfully blind to look at the state of islam-dominated countries versus christian-dominated countries and come to the conclusion that they're equally dangerous.
 
You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.

You are making up personal attacks to substitute an argument. Many of us, myself included, do not hate Christianity. I've said over and over again that religion is neutral, like a hammer. A thing that is so extensive and contradictory like the bible can be used to support any kind of belief. This means that believers are prone to external influences, whether it is the people leading them or the times that they live in with those external variables. A previous post you bashed but did not understand was discussing history exactly because it shows how such religions can interact with different external variables. There simply isn't anything inherent in Christianity to not have the majority of its adherents regress when those variables show up again.
I don't disagree that any system of belief can be abused.

Now... which of those religions is currently being abused in such a way right now?
 
Nobody claimed Xtians are "better" than Muslim people.
“Islam is the problem” belies that assertion.
Pointing out that a specific religion, as currently practiced in huge amounts, currently involved in massive terrorist endeavors and involved in jihad backed by multiple theocracies is a problem seems to really bother you. I don't think christian people are better than muslim people as people. I do, however, think that chrisianity as currently practiced is less dangerous than islam as currently practiced as a religion.
Communism is also better than Christianity
So is peanut butter.
Somewhere here, lies a category error.
That's one of the most blatantly dishonest post snips I've seen in a while.
Not worth arguing. Emily’s emotional outbursts rarely are.
Says the guy who routinely resorts to the text form of screaming at me, and who regularly mischaracterizes my views with lots of invective in order to pretend you have some moral high ground.
 
You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.

You are making up personal attacks to substitute an argument. Many of us, myself included, do not hate Christianity. I've said over and over again that religion is neutral, like a hammer. A thing that is so extensive and contradictory like the bible can be used to support any kind of belief. This means that believers are prone to external influences, whether it is the people leading them or the times that they live in with those external variables. A previous post you bashed but did not understand was discussing history exactly because it shows how such religions can interact with different external variables. There simply isn't anything inherent in Christianity to not have the majority of its adherents regress when those variables show up again.
I don't disagree that any system of belief can be abused.

Now... which of those religions is currently being abused in such a way right now?

Both, but why are you focusing on "currently?" If it is some kind of threat assessment, I would counter that numbers in proximity also feeds into risk.
 
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