Syed's Mega-Thread

[Lion IRC]

You know, ultimately my beef with Lion IRC wasn't his misrepresentation so much as his dodge. It's characteristic of theists, they're always dodging.

Atheos made a statement which contradicted his/her overall argument.
Calling that out ISNT quote-mining.
You can accuse me of dodging when you post a straight forward question with my (@Lion IRC) name in front of the question and I say...I refuse to answer that question.

I know exactly the overall point Atheos was trying to make. I'm not accusing Atheos of secretly holding a different POV - I'm pointing out that the overall contention fails because of the admission that - whatever the mechanism - visible police presence, unmarked cars, CCTV, God... the deterrent effect is real.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

If it takes a belief in the existence of a God in order to bring peace and harmony, brotherly love and compassion for all, the middle east should be a paradise on Earth....

you are the one who is bombing and killing middle eastern people for 15 years

Is this true, DBT? have you been bombing the Middle East for a decade and a half? I might have to revise my opinion of you, if it's so!

PS Syed, if your excuse for the Middle East being a war-torn hellhole for the last 15 years is that it has been bombed in that time, what's your excuse for for it being a war-torn hellhole before that? From the Lebanese civil war and the Israel-Palestine conflict, the Iran-Iraq war, going back through two Kurdish-Iraqi wars, Kurdish uprisings in Turkey and Iran, military coups all over the place, all the way back to the civil war in Islam between Shia and Sunni, still unresolved 1½ millenia on ... is the "West" to blame for all that, too, or is it just that Islam, by its very nature, cannot have peace until and unless everybody is a submissive member of the same sect with the same narrow interpretation, whatever that turns out to be?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

You know, ultimately my beef with Lion IRC wasn't his misrepresentation so much as his dodge. It's characteristic of theists, they're always dodging.

Atheos made a statement which contradicted his/her overall argument.
Calling that out ISNT quote-mining.
You can accuse me of dodging when you post a straight forward question with my (@Lion IRC) name in front of the question and I say...I refuse to answer that question.

I know exactly the overall point Atheos was trying to make. I'm not accusing Atheos of secretly holding a different POV - I'm pointing out that the overall contention fails because of the admission that - whatever the mechanism - visible police presence, unmarked cars, CCTV, God... the deterrent effect is real.

But Atheos wasn't saying that. he was saying that the presence of marked police cars acted as a deterrent, while unmarked police cars did not. In other words, if the presence is invisible and undetectable (or at least undetected), it acts as no deterrent at all ... like your god. At least, that's what I understood from his post; I think you just read it wrongly.

 

[DBT]

If it takes a belief in the existence of a God in order to bring peace and harmony, brotherly love and compassion for all, the middle east should be a paradise on Earth....

you are the one who is bombing and killing middle eastern people for 15 years

Not me. I've never bombed anyone. That started with Bush and Co.....who are theists, self professed Christians.....which doesn't help your claim that a belief in God is necessary for a peaceful, decent life.

Are you also claiming that there were no problems in the middle east before that?

Are you trying to claim that Shiites and Sunnis lived in harmony before the 'evil west' interfered?

Go back to the beginning, are you aware of what the Quran says about non believers? Are you aware of the words of the Prophet as to how to treat non believers?

It is a great credit to Muslims who ignore their Holy Book and live peacefully regardless of the words of the Prophet.

 

[DBT]

Is this true, DBT? have you been bombing the Middle East for a decade and a half? I might have to revise my opinion of you, if it's so!

Apparently I am a hard core Bad Arse....BBBBad, bad to the bone.

 

[Lion IRC]

Atheos agrees...

...The REALITY that an enforcement official is watching is a deterrent.

Hey Atheos
Do you think The REALITY that an enforcement official is watching is a deterrent?

 

[Lion IRC]

Atheos agrees...

Hey Atheos
Do you think The REALITY that an enforcement official is watching is a deterrent?

What a stupid @&#€!!! question Lion IRC are you a moron?
Atheos JUST said...The REALITY that an enforcement official is watching is a deterrent

 

[Lion IRC]

everyone must kill their firstborn son

So then, you agree.

Agree with what?

I've asked you a direct question twice now.
Stop dodging.

 

[Lion IRC]

...I don't think everyone must kill their firstborn.

Gee. How refreshing that someone states what they think in plain language.
Abaddon, are you confused about my views?

 

[Lion IRC]

Unmarked police cars are effectively invisible.
They act as a deterrent BECAUSE we know they can see us but we can't see them so we had better obey the law. And like unmarked police cars, God exists.

Are you suggesting that the reason I paid for the dollar's worth of food at the gas station was because there might have been an unmarked police car parked outside?

No. Don't you read my posts? I already said;

...God places a moral compass in our hearts - that we are created in His likeness - and even the atheist intuits the existence of a quasi-transcendent moral law.

Go on!
Ask me another strawman question and I'll set it on fire with a direct answer - or linked quote.

...and yes Bilby, I am aware this is a "discussion forum" where people can see exactly who says what and when. You think I'm too stupid to know that?

Or are you reminding others that they can clearly see who says what?
Whose intelligence are you really insulting with such banal statements of the bleeding obvious!

 

[DrZoidberg]

...God places a moral compass in our hearts - that we are created in His likeness - and even the atheist intuits the existence of a quasi-transcendent moral law.

Wait what? So what's all this nonsense about the Bible? Why not just place the Biblical text in our hearts all along? Why not do away with the need of the church? Why not do away with the need to evangelize?

If God places stuff in our hearts wouldn't that imply that, since God hasn't pre-programmed the correction version of his faith (which is Islam in this thread) then that means God wants us to be atheists?

I think you've painted yourself into a corner.

 

[iolo]

...God places a moral compass in our hearts - that we are created in His likeness - and even the atheist intuits the existence of a quasi-transcendent moral law.

Wait what? So what's all this nonsense about the Bible? Why not just place the Biblical text in our hearts all along? Why not do away with the need of the church? Why not do away with the need to evangelize?

If God places stuff in our hearts wouldn't that imply that, since God hasn't pre-programmed the correction version of his faith (which is Islam in this thread) then that means God wants us to be atheists?

I think you've painted yourself into a corner.

I think you are going to end up a Quaker, Dr, listening to your inner voice! Quite a few of them are atheists. I packed in attending when I got a bit sick of the
Spirit spending all its time reading not the Bible but Guardian editorials!

 

[Atheos]

You know, ultimately my beef with Lion IRC wasn't his misrepresentation so much as his dodge. It's characteristic of theists, they're always dodging.

Atheos made a statement which contradicted his/her overall argument.
Calling that out ISNT quote-mining.
You can accuse me of dodging when you post a straight forward question with my (@Lion IRC) name in front of the question and I say...I refuse to answer that question.

I know exactly the overall point Atheos was trying to make. I'm not accusing Atheos of secretly holding a different POV - I'm pointing out that the overall contention fails because of the admission that - whatever the mechanism - visible police presence, unmarked cars, CCTV, God... the deterrent effect is real.

Then you missed my point. Or perhaps you don't know what the word "deterrent" means. Unmarked cars are not a deterrent.

And the way abaddon's quote mine of you flew right over your head is a riot.

 

[abaddon]

Atheos made a statement which contradicted his/her overall argument.
Calling that out ISNT quote-mining.
You can accuse me of dodging when you post a straight forward question with my (@Lion IRC) name in front of the question and I say...I refuse to answer that question.

I know exactly the overall point Atheos was trying to make. I'm not accusing Atheos of secretly holding a different POV - I'm pointing out that the overall contention fails because of the admission that - whatever the mechanism - visible police presence, unmarked cars, CCTV, God... the deterrent effect is real.

Then you missed my point. Or perhaps you don't know what the word "deterrent" means.

He got stuck on the word "REALITY" and didn't see you were comparing visibility and reality. Though it seems that "deterrent" is lost on him too.

 

[abaddon]

...I don't think everyone must kill their firstborn.

Gee. How refreshing that someone states what they think in plain language.
Abaddon, are you confused about my views?

No I'm not. The partial quote about killing the first born was just an example of quote mining. Apparently its context was invisible to you too.

Quote mining is  quoting out of context. It's taking a fraction of what anyone wrote and presenting as meaning something else than what it meant in context. Whether you intended to deceive or had deceived yourself by reading things into it that weren't there (by ignoring the context which shows "REALITY" meant "VISIBILITY"), you quoted out of context. Get a grip and think it through, you have an opportunity to learn and grow.

 

[James Brown]

...God places a moral compass in our hearts - that we are created in His likeness - and even the atheist intuits the existence of a quasi-transcendent moral law.

I suppose that would mean that we all agree on what's the right thing to do at all times, since we all are operating with the same set of instructions. Yet conflict abounds, even among believers.

My view is that there may be an Objective Morality, but we Subjective people will never be able to accurately know what it is, so we have to figure it out on our own.

Iron Chariots page on Secular Morality

 

[funinspace]

PS: Why are you arguing with a plant?

I'm sure he mint no harm...

Well, some mints are bisexual; and bisexual plants do produce more seed...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If it takes a belief in the existence of a God in order to bring peace and harmony, brotherly love and compassion for all, the middle east should be a paradise on Earth....

you are the one who is bombing and killing middle eastern people for 15 years

But the US prides itself over being Judaic-Christian... which is based on their being a God.

 

[Bomb#20]

Yes Bomb#20 (and I completely agree not all atheists adhere to group-think) but what happens when we all agree the CIA assassinated Kennedy but we can agree whether that was a good or bad thing.

I take it you meant "can't". Pretty much the same thing that happens when we all agree there's a God and we all agree we have a duty to do whatever He wants and we all agree He wants us to make the heretics worship Him in the right way, but we can't agree whether Catholic or Lutheran is the right way: millions die. It would be good if people were more willing to say "I don't know" whenever they lack sufficient data to have a good reason to agree the CIA assassinated Kennedy.

If there is no universal moral truth and nothing but moral opinions the discussion about right and wrong is as futile as;

View attachment 8958

True that. But since no one has a good reason to think there's no universal moral truth, no worries.

 

[Atheos]

It's all about the consequences.

It's aaaaaaaaaaaall about the consequences.