Syed's Mega-Thread

[Keith&Co.]

when you dont know something, you shouldn't say with certainty its doesn't exist

Why not?
Why pause to come to a working conclusion that all the gods are silly inventions?
None of them seem fundamentally distinguishable from the animals in Aesop's fables or the wizards in the Conan books.
What would make me hold out some form of hope for one of the thousands of gods YOU don't believe in turning out to be real?

 

[Syed]

From wikipedia:

An organic compound is any member of a large class of gaseous, liquid, or solid chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon.

In other words, molecules that make up the basis of life. Most chemicals in our body are organic, DNA, protein, etc. Organic molecules themselves likely formed first, then formed life.

I'm no chemist, but I believe Carbon is an element which is capable of forming very stable bonds with other elements, which would have made life possible.

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Yep. Life is a chemical.

car is made of earth's elements that does not explain who made the car?

The sun made life.

let say you have organic molecules in a box will they replicate ?

and you said sun made life

would you say the sun is creator of life?

Scientific theories on abiogenesis (life's beginnings) usually assume very specific conditions leading to life forming. So no, .

our earth still have good condition for life from size of comma to elephant and all the chemicals elements

 

[abaddon]

Being 100% sure is a horrible thing. What is far more important is to stay curious and keep looking at nature and nevermind the unworldly distractions away from reality. There is virtue in curiosity and none in feeling certain about ignorant opinions.

so you are not 100% sure about your disbelieve in god?

I am not 100% sure there is no god of some sort.

But I could never believe in any variety of a god until there is powerful evidence of that god.

The evidence is that God is the belief of weak-minded people who replace their lack of knowing with quick-and-easy opinions, and then feel stupidly smug about how certain they feel.

So ultimately I'm pretty sure there is no god, given how nature is and given how it is human psychology that explains gods best.

This post sums up what theism basically is:

View attachment 8983

 

[Tom Sawyer]

In Islam, there was a debate on what happened after death until the final days promised in the Quran. Thus is was reasoned Allah would resurrect our bodies as needed. But then what happened to our souls? Were they stored someplace or resurrected? Al Ghazali said if our souls and bodies were recreated, that would mean that that person was not really the person who deserved paradise or hell, that person was somebody else. To Al Ghazali then, a soul was an accounting device to make sure the proper person was punished or rewarded in the final days. as to where the soul went in between, he answered, we cannot know since Allah did not inform us of that bit of information.

Well, at least he didn't waste his life philosophizing about non-issues.

 

[bilby]

From wikipedia:

An organic compound is any member of a large class of gaseous, liquid, or solid chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon.

In other words, molecules that make up the basis of life. Most chemicals in our body are organic, DNA, protein, etc. Organic molecules themselves likely formed first, then formed life.

I'm no chemist, but I believe Carbon is an element which is capable of forming very stable bonds with other elements, which would have made life possible.

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Yep. Life is a chemical.

car is made of earth's elements that does not explain who made the car?

The sun made life.

let say you have organic molecules in a box will they replicate ?

and you said sun made life

would you say the sun is creator of life?

Scientific theories on abiogenesis (life's beginnings) usually assume very specific conditions leading to life forming. So no, .

our earth still have good condition for life from size of comma to elephant and all the chemicals elements

Our Earth currently has terrible conditions for the development of life; That life thrives despite this is an indication of how successfully it has adapted to the changing conditions.

For one thing, there is far too much oxygen about. Oxygen was very inimical to early life, and when oxygen tolerant plant life evolved, the massive boost in oxygen levels that resulted was catastrophic for the vast majority of living things.

 

[atrib]

Being 100% sure is a horrible thing. What is far more important is to stay curious and keep looking at nature and nevermind the unworldly distractions away from reality. There is virtue in curiosity and none in feeling certain about ignorant opinions.

so you are not 100% sure about your disbelieve in god?

Produce your god and we will start believing. Why won't you produce your god?

 

[OLDMAN]

I think Syed is God, he is just toying with us. Can anyone prove he's not God?

 

[Gila Guerilla]

We know what your answer is, Syed. I just asked for anything resembling support for your conclusion.

atheist cant know

Well, I don't think too many of us claim to KNOW as much as we claim that you've done fuck all to support your silly superstition. No matter how many times we invite you to...

i said god created life now you have to disprove that

look up burden of proof child
if you cannot substantiate a claim then is is dismissed summarily as unsupported

i am asking you a scientific question, who created life on earth?

now burden of proof is on all of us

It's a loaded question. By asking WHO CREATED life on earth, you assume that the answer is WHO and that it was CREATED.
By WHO, I presume that you think it must have been an intelligence responsible for the existence of life on earth, and by CREATED I assume that it must have been brought into existence by that WHO, as an intelligent being. You, Syed say that "God" created life on earth. That's no proof of anything, it's just an opinion, (in this case, your opinion). As atheists, we can say that we don't believe it. Now the burden of proof is on you, as the one making a claim.

However, scientists are working on finding out if a natural explanation is decipherable, and Jack Szostak, (Harvard/HMVI) is making progress, and explains quite well what he and his co-workers have discovered. Here is a series of videos that communicate what they've been doing and found . . .



To say that you are asking: "a scientific question, who created life on earth?", is false, in that it is not a scientific question. It is not scientific as a question, because it assumes the answer in the question, (ie. that it is a whom, and that it was created). A more scientific question might be:-

} How did life on on arise? {

There is an assumption in that question also, with which you seem to agree, Syed, namely that at one time there was no life on earth.
The answer to your question should be open, and based on what evidence we can be discovered in the earth, its chemistry, its physics and its life forms, (etc.).
You are right in that the answer is that we don't know how life on earth arose. Scientists are still looking to find out a solid, evidence-based answer.

When I say that we don't know how life on earth arose, that does not default to "God" did it. What "we don't know how life on earth arose" MEANS, is "we don't know how life on earth arose".

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

You are asking me to answer a question with a question. That isn't reasonable.

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Syed,

You believe your god made life. Those of us who do not believe in your god do not believe this is true. The fact is that nobody knows with absolute certainty how life came to exist. .

i am 100% sure that god created life, you atheist will never know how life came to exist

Your 100% certainty has no tangible relation with what actually is.

when you dont know something, you shouldn't say with certainty its doesn't exist

Speaking only for myself, I don't. If I don't know something, I say I don't know.

But what you should never, ever, ever do is, if you don't know something, say with certainty it does exist. All you're doing then is lying. To yourself and to whoever you're saying it to. The only honest answer is "I don't know".

then you are not atheist

are you atheist?

Yes, I am an atheist. You obviously don't know what an atheist is. So pay attention while I tell you, you might even learn something.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe there is a god. Believe, get it? Not know, believe. Just as a theist is someone who believes there is one. He doesn't know, either, he believes.

On the question of whether I know there is or isn't a god, I'm an agnostic, because I don't and can't know. Neither do you, neither does anybody else. Technically, that makes us all agnostics, because nobodyknows for sure. But those of us who call ourselves agnostics are the ones with the courage to admit we don't know, instead of ignorantly claiming we do.

So, as an atheist when it comes to belief, and an agnostic when it comes to knowledge, I am an atheist agnostic. Or an agnostic atheist. Whichever you prefer.

 

[Ford]

then you are not atheist

are you atheist?

Yes, I am an atheist. You obviously don't know what an atheist is. So pay attention while I tell you, you might even learn something.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe there is a god. Believe, get it? Not know, believe. Just as a theist is someone who believes there is one. He doesn't know, either, he believes.

On the question of whether I know there is or isn't a god, I'm an agnostic, because I don't and can't know. Neither do you, neither does anybody else. Technically, that makes us all agnostics, because nobodyknows for sure. But those of us who call ourselves agnostics are the ones with the courage to admit we don't know, instead of ignorantly claiming we do.

So, as an atheist when it comes to belief, and an agnostic when it comes to knowledge, I am an atheist agnostic. Or an agnostic atheist. Whichever you prefer.

Unfortunately it seems that Syed is impervious to learning, so even this clear and simple explanation is not going to work.

 

[bilby]

You are asking me to answer a question with a question. That isn't reasonable.

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Syed,

You believe your god made life. Those of us who do not believe in your god do not believe this is true. The fact is that nobody knows with absolute certainty how life came to exist. .

i am 100% sure that god created life, you atheist will never know how life came to exist

Your 100% certainty has no tangible relation with what actually is.

when you dont know something, you shouldn't say with certainty its doesn't exist

Speaking only for myself, I don't. If I don't know something, I say I don't know.

But what you should never, ever, ever do is, if you don't know something, say with certainty it does exist. All you're doing then is lying. To yourself and to whoever you're saying it to. The only honest answer is "I don't know".

then you are not atheist

are you atheist?

Yes, I am an atheist. You obviously don't know what an atheist is. So pay attention while I tell you, you might even learn something.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe there is a god. Believe, get it? Not know, believe. Just as a theist is someone who believes there is one. He doesn't know, either, he believes.

On the question of whether I know there is or isn't a god, I'm an agnostic, because I don't and can't know. Neither do you, neither does anybody else. Technically, that makes us all agnostics, because nobodyknows for sure. But those of us who call ourselves agnostics are the ones with the courage to admit we don't know, instead of ignorantly claiming we do.

So, as an atheist when it comes to belief, and an agnostic when it comes to knowledge, I am an atheist agnostic. Or an agnostic atheist. Whichever you prefer.

I am brave enough (and sufficiently well educated) to admit that I DO know. Despite the solipsistic bullshit of some philosophers, and despite the insistence of many theists and atheists alike that because THEY don't know, I cannot know either, I do, nevertheless, know.

There is no God, and I know this for the same reason that I know that there isn't a bus parked in my garden shed. I don't need to check inside the grassbox of the lawnmower, or look under the old flowerpots; There isn't a bus in my shed because I KNOW that my shed is too small to contain a bus.

There isn't a God, because reality doesn't contain any spaces large enough for one, that haven't been checked. There is no mechanism for any interactions with matter on human scales that is not fully understood. Quantum Field Theory may be wrong - but not to a sufficient extent that a God (or a soul, or any mechanism for life after the destruction of the physical brain) would become possible. Almost all Gods share the attribute of an ability to interact with humans. No such God is possible. The remainder (barely worthy of the name IMO) started the universe and then vanished. They are not possible either - creating everything is only possible after the creator is created, which it can't be until it is created.

That's why I am a gnostic atheist.

 

[Smoker]

Where does the soul go while we are sleeping?

 

[DBT]

when you dont know something, you shouldn't say with certainty its doesn't exist

Yet you are saying with certainty that God does exist when you don't have that knowledge.

 

[DBT]

Where does the soul go while we are sleeping?

They have their own VIP lounge, smokes and drinks are on the house.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think Syed is God, he is just toying with us. Can anyone prove he's not God?

That's the only logical explanation. Only the real God would deny he is one.

 

[AJ113]

...i said god created life now you have to disprove that

No problem.

But first, I say that Slartibartfast created life, so by your own logic, you have to disprove that, and right after you have disproved it, I'll disprove that god did it.

The title of this thread is a loaded question fallacy. You do realise that, right?

 

[DrZoidberg]

...i said god created life now you have to disprove that

No problem.

But first, I say that Slartibartfast created life, so by your own logic, you have to disprove that, and right after you have disproved it, I'll disprove that god did it.

The title of this thread is a loaded question fallacy. You do realise that, right?

Blasphemy. How dare you deny the Truth of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!?! It is written in the sacred Torahtellini. Obviously God was drunk when his Noodliness created the world. How else do you explain the appendix, the fact that rabbits have to eat their own shit because their digestive system is reversed, the platypus or that some people are myopic? A sober God would have made a much better job of it.

 

[AJ113]

...you dont fear getting traffic ticket ? cops makes you good car driver and citizen

fear of god makes human good too

god created heaven and hell for some reason



Why do human do good and avoid bad ?

1, fear of god

2, fear of cops, jail time, execution

3, empathy

4, fear of society

5, fear of family

6, fear of friends

fear of god is the MOST effective and easy to civilized human

atheist ONLY fear cops

Philanthropy, benevolence, generosity, humanitarianism, public-spiritedness, altruism, charity, selflessness, kindness, compassion, these are all performed by theists and atheists alike, so they don't require the presence of a god, neither do they require cops, either hidden or in plain view, because they are not legal issues.

So referring to your false dichotomy above, #3, empathy, must be the correct option. Which means that all the other options are false, including #1, fear of god.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

I am brave enough (and sufficiently well educated) to admit that I DO know. Despite the solipsistic bullshit of some philosophers, and despite the insistence of many theists and atheists alike that because THEY don't know, I cannot know either, I do, nevertheless, know.

There is no God, and I know this for the same reason that I know that there isn't a bus parked in my garden shed. I don't need to check inside the grassbox of the lawnmower, or look under the old flowerpots; There isn't a bus in my shed because I KNOW that my shed is too small to contain a bus.

There isn't a God, because reality doesn't contain any spaces large enough for one, that haven't been checked. There is no mechanism for any interactions with matter on human scales that is not fully understood. Quantum Field Theory may be wrong - but not to a sufficient extent that a God (or a soul, or any mechanism for life after the destruction of the physical brain) would become possible. Almost all Gods share the attribute of an ability to interact with humans. No such God is possible. The remainder (barely worthy of the name IMO) started the universe and then vanished. They are not possible either - creating everything is only possible after the creator is created, which it can't be until it is created.

That's why I am a gnostic atheist.

As far as any of the gods worshipped by humans down the centuries is concerned, I know they don't exist and never did. But I leave space in my mind for the (very small) possibility that some kind of what we would call a deity might exist in the vastness of the universe, not necessarily a creator. But it is a very small possibility. On the Dawkins scale of 1-7, I'm somewhere in the region of 6.9999999999999999999999999999. I just won't claim absolute certainty.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I am brave enough (and sufficiently well educated) to admit that I DO know. Despite the solipsistic bullshit of some philosophers, and despite the insistence of many theists and atheists alike that because THEY don't know, I cannot know either, I do, nevertheless, know.

There is no God, and I know this for the same reason that I know that there isn't a bus parked in my garden shed. I don't need to check inside the grassbox of the lawnmower, or look under the old flowerpots; There isn't a bus in my shed because I KNOW that my shed is too small to contain a bus.

There isn't a God, because reality doesn't contain any spaces large enough for one, that haven't been checked. There is no mechanism for any interactions with matter on human scales that is not fully understood. Quantum Field Theory may be wrong - but not to a sufficient extent that a God (or a soul, or any mechanism for life after the destruction of the physical brain) would become possible. Almost all Gods share the attribute of an ability to interact with humans. No such God is possible. The remainder (barely worthy of the name IMO) started the universe and then vanished. They are not possible either - creating everything is only possible after the creator is created, which it can't be until it is created.

That's why I am a gnostic atheist.

As far as any of the gods worshipped by humans down the centuries is concerned, I know they don't exist and never did. But I leave space in my mind for the (very small) possibility that some kind of what we would call a deity might exist in the vastness of the universe, not necessarily a creator. But it is a very small possibility. On the Dawkins scale of 1-7, I'm somewhere in the region of 6.9999999999999999999999999999. I just won't claim absolute certainty.

As far as I'm concerned atheism/agnosticism/theism isn't about what you can prove. It's about what you believe.

I try to look at it as a roulette table. If you had to put all your chips on just one square. Where would you put them? Agnostics is for people who really think it's a 50-50 toss.

Humanity so far has invented about 6000 Gods. All supported by the same evidence, or lack of evidence. Any evidence for the Muslim God is the same evidence for any of the other one. Or any God that I make up now. I don't like those odds.