DBT
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Which is quite unnecessary given that learning is possible without pain and suffering in relation to a God that is Compassionate. Hence the problem of evil.
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Which is quite unnecessary given that learning is possible without pain and suffering in relation to a God that is Compassionate. Hence the problem of evil.
WASHINGTON — NASA's 2015 budget would remain essentially flat at $17.5 billion under a White House spending proposal unveiled today (March 4) that would hold the line on the agency's biggest space programs while laying the groundwork for major new astrophysics and planetary science missions.
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how much money we would had spend annually world wide on research on human body when there was NO sickness and pain, suffering?
god wanted to make human a self learning creature
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how much money we would had spend annually world wide on research on human body when there was NO sickness and pain, suffering?
god wanted to make human a self learning creature
DBT
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We are talking about a God is able to make a world without suffering, yet populated with people who are able to learn, therefore not being 'robots'....which you agree is possible. Yet we have evil and suffering. So what happened to this God? This God who is able to create a good world, but has not?
We'd probably spend about as much as we spend on psychological counseling for depressed rocks. That means none at all, since rocks don't get depressed, so we were able to take the cash for that and spend it on something else. It's the same as the money we use on researching the problems with the human body - without those problems, we'd put our resources elsewhere and learn other things without that irrelevancy holding us back.
Gila Guerilla
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I remind you that you told me that you would answer ALL my questions.
Now you are telling me that I must not get any more answers.
If that is the case, I am not interested inhuman death in Islam.
i told you god does not care to count sand grain what would be the purpose ? beside sand grain are crush rock
DBT
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I don't know what that link is doing there, but your reference to angels doesn't explain the problem of evil.
bilby
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I would, if I could. Wouldn't you?
Are you saying that I am kinder and more caring than God; or that God is as weak and unable to help as we are; or that God isn't aware of their plight, and that we know something God doesn't?
If they cause needless suffering to innocents (and they do), then yes; why wouldn't he?
My answer is that he isn't able to help, because he is too fictional.
But if he really exists, why doesn't he help the hungry? Why doesn't he protect children from earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc.?
Is he incapable; ignorant; or uncaring? He must be at least one of those, or he would do something.
if god give food, cloths, home everything to human, human would be like animals and insects, god provided them everything they need
if god provide human everything they need, why should human work?
bilby
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God did not provide animals or insects with everything they need - animals and insects starve to death regularly, and often in huge numbers.
And, of course, if a god provided humans with everything they need, they wouldn't need to work. Why would that be a bad thing? Work is just a pastime you hate so much that they have to pay you to do it. The only reason that not working is bad is that not working leads to the absence of the necessities of life. If they are provided without work, then why would it be bad to not work?
I would certainly find it easy to occupy my time without work, if I didn't need to work in order to survive.
James Brown
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According to the Genesis myth, work was a curse God placed on humans for the sin of seeking knowledge.
Why do that if work is so vital and important?
This thread is dangerously close to so many threads with apologists (Self-Mutation, notably) where they twist themselves into knots to excuse God from acting benevolently on the grounds that we would be even worse off if he did. They prompted me to coin this Apologists Axiom:
"If people didn't suffer, then people would suffer due to a lack of suffering. God doesn't want people to suffer, so he lets us suffer."
Why do that if work is so vital and important?
This thread is dangerously close to so many threads with apologists (Self-Mutation, notably) where they twist themselves into knots to excuse God from acting benevolently on the grounds that we would be even worse off if he did. They prompted me to coin this Apologists Axiom:
"If people didn't suffer, then people would suffer due to a lack of suffering. God doesn't want people to suffer, so he lets us suffer."
Gila Guerilla
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Does this reply mean that you will answer all of my questions after all, or not ???
You really need to read more carefully what I have written. I didn't actually ask if "God" counts grains of sand, I asked if "he" has foreknowledge of where they are, (ie. where they are located). Even so, I could have asked if "God" counts grains of sand or does "he" know the number beforehand? You might think these are silly questions, but their answers can have major implications for the idea of "God" which you have, and which you are trying to convince some of us that "he" exists.
What I earlier wrote is :-
So it does not matter whether "God" cares where that sand is, what matters is does "he" know it, and how ???
And grains of sand is not just crushed rock, because, a sand dune is made of grains of sand, a mountain is made up of lots of sand, (and rocks and trees).
As I understand it, the moon being split in two is recorded in the Qur'an, as a miracle. I assume that this miracle was supposedly possible with the power of "God". The moon is made up of grains of sand, as well as rocks etc.
Therefore "God" has had an interest in grains of sand in the past. You told me that "God" has power over EVERY single atom in the universe that mean god can manipulate SINGLE atom as he wish.
And I did not restrict myself to grains of sand, I also have mentioned atoms and molecules - I have not mentioned sub atomic particles, (yet).
Note that in the above quote, I specifically mention that grains of sand is a metaphor for mountain, moon, tree, elephant, atoms/molecules.
In the example from the web page on metaphors in the quote above, night is not a curtain. A curtain is something we put up in front of windows. But we can see similarities between night and a curtain.
A well known metaphor is when people refer to "the elephant in the room". There's no elephant, and no room. If there were an elephant in a room, it would be obvious, (hard to miss). This metaphor means: "the obvious".
People will say: "Don't ignore the elephant in the room". What they mean when they say that is: "Don't ignore the obvious".
In my posts "grains of sand" is a metaphor for: "mountain, moon, tree, elephant, atoms/molecules". Really it means: "All of the stuff that is in the universe". So what I am trying to understand is whether or not, (in your belief), "God' has foreknowledge of all that, or does "he" have to do a scan to locate them, (for whatever purpose "he" might have). All of that relates to the level of omniscience that "God" has, in your belief system.
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I can assure you that all my questions are leading somewhere, and that somewhere is to find out whether or not "God", (as explained to me by you, and as in your belief system), makes sense to me, for others, and in general as a concept. But I am NOT going to make criticism of your belief or your concept of "God", until I have worked out exactly what that belief and concept are. I you are not happy for us to look at the matter of your god-belief in detail, then I am not going to want to be told that "God" did this and "God" does that, by you. That purpose will come to fruition, (I hope), as long as we keep on exchanging communications. If you are prepared to continue to engage, then I will be happy to read what you have to say about human death in Islam.
But you need to read carefully, and answer questions, otherwise things get out of hand. There are already a lot of questions that I have asked and they have gone unanswered by you, Syed. Also I have drawn some conclusion based on what you have told me, and you have not responded to them. If you wish, I am prepared to go back over all of our exchanges in this thread, and draw them together, to get us up to date so to speak. Would you like me to do that, Syed, ???
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Also in an effort to make things easier, I am marking questions with a triple set of question marks, in bold, (as in: ??? ).
I regret that this post is so long, but I felt that I needed to clarify some issues. I look forward to your reply. Thanks, Syed.
exactly, why would human work when god provided you with food, cloth, home, no sickness?
now human in that condition so why do human need school, college, universities when there is NO suffering ?
god knows that human will ONLY learn in HARSH condition
bilby
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WTF are you on about?
DBT
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What has work got to do with it? The problem of evil goes far deeper than a necessity to work in a world where we must act in order to survive.