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brother
would you help me built website ?
read below and tell me what do you think?
i am just copy and pasting here from my forum
http://forums.delphiforums.com/reform/messages/?msg=39.1
Reforming Muslims Not Islam
islam came to reform ALL human kind
(Quran 5:3) "This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion."
dont worship sahabahs and prophet families they are human like you
and dont worship prophet muhammed pbuh he was FALLIBLE human like you
if prophet was infallible like angels than we muslims are better then our proplet
did holy prophet said that he is infallible or your mullah or imam is infallible?
did allah made prophet mohammed and your imams infallible?
in quran allah said that allah forgave prophet mohammed's sin, read quran yourselves ..... 040:055 Pickthal :
Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true.(( (((And ask forgiveness of thy sin))))), and hymn the praise of thy Lord at fall of night and in the early hours.
yousuf ali
47:19 Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and (((((( ask forgiveness for thy fault )))))), and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.
\u201CO Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public.\u201D (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 5919)
did other prophet committed sin ? many adam one of them. no human can be save from sin, \u201D Narrated by Muslim, 2749. And he said: \u201CEvery son of Adam sins, and the best of those who sin are those who repent.\u201D
ONLY allah is INFALLIBLE only ALL KNOWING can be infallible , our prophet is NOT all knowing
( intercessor ) who would save prophet mohammed from hell fire beside allah? who would save you from hell fire beside allah?
who does intercession work?
example one
if prophet mohammed ask allah to forgive abu lahab and pharaoh what would allah do?
example two
why would allah need a intercessor when allah knows who is deserving his mercy?
i am aware of allah will allow prophet 'S' to intercede
but prophet ONLY intercede behave of those member of prophet's family and friends who need allah's mercy and forgiveness.
intercession is privilege allah granted to all prophets ONLY for their family and friends NOT you and me
prophet noah could not save his son from drowning, could prophet muhammed save his grand son? how about could prophet muhammed save you from hell?
( who is your SAVIOR ?) ALLAH only.... so do not LOVE prophet mohammed AND his family AND sahabahs MORE then they DESERVED
( who should muslim love the most allah or prophet mohhamed? ) ( who should muslim love the most quran or prophet hadiths ? )
( your favorite mullah / imam ( peace be upon him ) dont follow your mullah / imam / scholar without questioning him
when you are questioning scholar of islam / imam you are NOT questioning ALLAH and prophet, you are only questioning HIS interpretation of islam / quran / hadith
remember allah did NOT made YOU a DUMB creature, it is better for you to study islam for yourselves
( caliphate is unislamic concept )
what is the rule of khalifa in islam? he is a pope of islam?
is it rule of khalifa to interpret quran / hadiths / islam ? or he is political leader of 1. 6 billion muslims? what if his policies screwed you ? is he guided by allah as previous khalifa who killed each other for POWER?
two people are responsible for division of islam (sects) directly or INDIRECTLY umar and ali
umar and ali can be wrong but we must respect them and i respect both umar and ali
it is SAD that sunni and shia divided islam for the LOVE for the sahabahs then united for LOVE for ALLAH
it is SAD that SAHABAHS divided islam for the LOVE for the POWER then unite ummah for LOVE for ALLAH
LOVE ALLAH ALONE he wont disappoint you
remember sahabas were fallible human they help our prophet and they made many mistakes in life like human do... muslims MUST respect them for their GOOD work
and dont worship DEAD people grave yard as sufi and shia do
and dont love sahabas more then allah and prophet as salifi and wahabis do
and dont love prophet's family more then allah and prophet as shia do
muslim should not follow salaf but ONLY allah and prophet
and do not beat your chest for ali and hussain
did prophet beat his chest until he bleed like shia do?
( mut'ah ) temporary marriages is like having sex with a prostitute
ali and hussain and hasan did temporary marriages for sex?
if no, so why you do this evil sexual act in the name of your ONLY true islam?
and do not call yourselves sunni,shia, sufi, hanifi, shafi jafri, maliki, salifi, wahabi, did i missed your sect ( beloved cult ) ? BUT call yourselves a muslim
was our prophet a sunni or shia?
i am not sunni, shia, salifi, sufi, wahabi or any other sectarian CULT invented under lovers of prophet mohammed
prophet ibrahim was a muslim, prophet mohammed was a muslim, i am a muslim without a sect
( sectarian killing) (and the BIRTH of ISIS ) iraqi's shia muslim and sunni muslim were living peacefully for 1400 years until NOW
so why they are killing each other NOW ? like they NEVER live in peace before?
american and european christians and jews divided shia and sunni for their OWN advantage in war with saddam hussian
( american and european christians and jews) UNITED with iraqi's shia AND iraqi's christians AND iraqi's yezidis AND iraqi kurds THEY ALL together started KILLING and RAPING iraqi's sunni muslims and ALL ARABS dictators watched SILENTLY..... the SILENCE of arab's dictators gave BIRTH to ISIS
( 911 ) who ever did 911 they INTENT to harm muslims and islam BUT those evil doer harm their OWN religion, 911 waked up muslims from donkey sleep and since 911 islam begin to spread all over the world
( sunni is a CULT of abu bakr ) and ( shia is a CULT of ali ) but both claimed they are cult of prophet muhammed pbuh
sunni are follower of sunnah and shia are follower of prophet's family BUT prophet muhammed is the follower of quran a book from god
would sunni and shia gave up your cult and join prophet muhammed ? note i dont reject hadiths
did abu bakr knew that there will be sunni cult in his name after he died? NO
did ali knew that there will be shia cult in his name after he died? NO
( sunnism and shiaism ) is about worshiping and glorifying early islamic war heroes NOT about glorifying our creator ALLAH
( me sunni or shia ? )
prophet mohammed was not sunni nor shia so i am not any of those and also dont believe in school of thought madhab like prophet, nor i am trying to invent my own cult
( CONTRADICTION between QURAN and HADITHS )
allah say dont kill apostate ( no compulsion in religion ) and prophet muhammed say kill the apostate ( hadith )
who do you follow allah or prophet? did the prophet muhammed disobeyed allah and kill the apostate ?
satan ibliss was FIRST apostate who disobeyed allah but allah did not kill or destroy him
does prophet have right to make his OWN rules which is against allah's rules ?
could apostasy hadith be false ? it is possible that mullah / scholar made apostate hadith ?
( hadiths are curse and blessing for muslims ) hadiths guide muslim to understand islam and also misguide muslims about islam and allah ..... hadiths create lots of fitnah among muslims so please chose hadiths wisely
there are TWO requirement for go to paradise one is to believe in god and be a good human being
christians and jews believe in god and good people among them will go to paradise
quran verse (2:62) Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
( a religion other than Islam )
"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85].
what is the definition of ISLAM ? submission to god
how do you summit to god? doing good and forbidding evil
can christians, jews and other follower of other religion do good and forbid evil? yes
( who is infidel / kafir ? ) in quran allah said christians and jew are people of the book NOT kafir or infidels and anyone who believe in god who believe in ANY god is not kafir
there are TWO kind of infidels, one kafir is knowingly deny god existence and the truth and the other one kafir is who is evil doer
in the quran allah said muslims can eat food/meat from christian and jew
and a muslim man can marry a good christian and jewish woman and she can follow her own religion
( convert / revert ) does a convert / revert have to DIVORCE his / her spouse ? BIG NO , allah send islam as mercy to mankind NOT as a burden on spouse and their small children. pharaoh was a kafir / infidel and his wife was a believer and chosen by ALLAH and prophet lot wife was a kafir and they did not divorce their spouse
( why cant muslims woman marry christian / jew ? )
in the quran allah said muslims can eat food/meat from christian and jew
and a muslim man can marry a good christian and jewish woman and she can follow her own religion
BUT
muslims women are not allow to marry people of the book because there is no promise given that muslim woman can practice her own religion after marriage to christian and jew
Shirk only applies to Muslims instead of everyone?
shirk mean helper beside god, ( for example prophet can save you from hell, that is shirk ) shirk is special sin only muslim can do
(5 thing that allah does not commond )
killing apostate, stoning to death, male / female circumcision, jesus is coming back, killing homosexual
could our beloved prophet do something allah does not commended him to do?
there is commandment in the quran that say homosexual should leave town and fasting
dont take all hadiths are as true, if a hadith does not makes sense to you throw in the garbage
many hadiths are writen by shia and sunni mullahs / scholars to glorify their own chosen CULT and leadership
many hadiths are invented by enemy of the prophet to denigrate our beloved prophet and to undermine islam
( the true shahada ) that our beloved prophet recite " There is no gods but God ''
allah is winning '' War On Terror '' , islam is spreading in the west
EVERY muslim MUST do dawah with respect to other religions
every muslim MUST love QURAN 1000 times MORE then hadiths
every muslims MUST study QURAN 1000 times MORE then hadiths
every muslim MUST love ALLAH 1000 times MORE then our beloved prophet mohammed
(ON DAY OF JUDGEMENT) our beloved prophet mohammed and sahabahs and our sect will NOT help us but OUR GOOD work in this world by helping our fellow human being
( here is MY understanding of Al-Qadar )
all human will died is Al-Qadar
judgement day is Al-Qadar
all human get sickness is Al-Qadar ( that does not mean god make you sick )
all human will die and resurrect again is Al-Qadar
all human will go to either heaven or hell Al-Qadar
their are many more thing about Al-Qadar
a individual will not go to hell or heaven as a predestination
if you are a muslim and agree with me and have knowledge of islam and education back ground please help me making web site under " Reforming Muslims Not Islam " at least advice me in these matters
C_Mucius_Scaevola
Veteran Member
As I said before, Syed, you have the right to interpret it any way you want. However, I have the right to tell you I think your interpretation is wrong. In the case above, the "if" is in the wrong place for you. It does not say "if the moon was rent in twain", it simply says "the moon was rent in twain".
You're right about the lack of information given. This is a problem for people today trying to interpret it, a problem that recurs with many passages in the koran. However, for people of the time it would not have been such a problem, as it was simply assumed that they knew the stories that were being referred to, which were common enough in the culture of that place and time. And the one story which was common there and then, and which matches the few details given here, is that of Mo' splitting the moon. Unless you can come up with something that better fits the passage, the only interpretation that makes any sense is the assumption that that was the story being referred to.
Infinite Monkey
New member
... No. I'm saying exactly the opposite. It's people who ARE NOT suffering that are putting robots on Mars and treating cancer and researching clean energy. They can do these things because they're not worried about dying from an infected cut, or trying to keep their tiny patch of crops alive in a draught.
There are masses of people living in developing nations who will never be able to contribute to the progress of their species because of the suffering they live under. There are people out there who could be engineers and scientists and artists and writers- people who could be LEADERS on a global scale- who are desperately trying to keep their children fed, who can do nothing about the painful tumour growing under their skin, who have no clean drinking water or reliable shelter. These people are not "learning". They are not "discovering". They are simply surviving, and the pain they experience will not lead to some greater good. Suffering helps nobody.
Kharakov
Quantum Hot Dog
It got better.
Transliteration
Wa-in yaraw ayatan yuAAridoowayaqooloo sihrun mustamirr
Sahih International
And if they see a miracle, they turn away and say, "Passing magic."
Muhsin Khan
And if they see a sign, they turn away, and say: "This is continuous magic."
Pickthall
And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion.
Yusuf Ali
But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic."
Shakir
And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic.
Dr. Ghali
And in case they see a sign, they veer away and say, "A continuous sorcery!"
'' if they see '' simply mean they has NOT see yet
you simply dont understand what we are talking about here
C_Mucius_Scaevola
Veteran Member
No. Not in English. The "if" in this construction is not conditional, on the lines of "if I win the lottery". It's describing what happens on the occasions "they see a sign", and could just as easily be replaced by "when". The use of the present tense in the second part ("they turn away", "they veer away") is the giveaway.
For it to be something they hadn't yet seen, the sentence would read "If they see a sign, they will turn away" or "if they saw a sign, they would turn away" or "if they were to see a sign, they would run away". If it's something they haven't yet seen, the sentence doesn't make sense as written.
Of course, I don't know the original Arabic version, but I would assume the translators you cite do, and they've all translated it into more or less the same sense in the English. And I do know English.
i do not believe those verses saying that moon split into two
allah did not gave ANY miracles to prophet muhammed to perform like mose and jesus
other point is IF allah wanted to split the moon he would have given power to prophet muhammed to perform that miracle
DBT
Contributor
The verses say what they say and mean what they mean, so what someone chooses to believe is irrelevant if that belief contradicts what is there for anyone to see and read....
Gila Guerilla
Junior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 84
- Basic Beliefs
- No religious beliefs held
Does this again mean that you will not answer my questions ???
I have a lot of unanswered questions, the answers to which will allow me to understand your position.
Does this mean that you will only tell me what you want to tell me, and not what I want to know ???
Are you afraid that I might show you to be wrong, and you want to avoid that ???
It certainly looks that way, after I just told you that I was going to go back over all of our old posts, to follow up on them.
It is so easy to avoid embarrassment by refusing to communicate on certain things, and to move on to other topics.
I am moving on to another topic below. I hope that you will reply.
Of course I want to know if what you say and believe are true, and make sense to me.
If you are going to talk about "God" so much in this thread, shouldn't you be willing to back up your claims of "his" existence, Syed, and not by preaching, but by looking at concepts and evidence ???
Also thanks for your efforts so far - I hope you will not disappoint and withhold from me the help I ask for, someone who only wants to know the truth, (and the truth as you see it, Syed).
Gila Guerilla
Junior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 84
- Basic Beliefs
- No religious beliefs held
My new topic, Syed, is to find out about "God" and what was there before "he" created the universe.
To try and help illustrate things, I have prepared a diagram . . .
This diagram shows the universe, and time progressing from left-to-right.
At [ Time = 0 ]is when "God" supposedly created the universe.
Let us suppose that at some time into the history of the universe, an event E will occur.
According to you, Syed, so long as event E does not involve human "free will", "God" knows in advance, (to the left), along the black arrow of time, that E is going to occur.
I am presuming that "God" knew what "he" was doing, and how it would turn out, before "he" created the universe.
What I am looking to find an answer for is: (according to Islamic teaching, the Qur'an, and you yourself, Syed),
< Did "God" know that event E, was going to happen before "he" supposedly created the universe ??? >
To completely avoid the problem of supposed "free will", suppose event E is something non-human, like a particular apple falling from a particular tree.
To try and help illustrate things, I have prepared a diagram . . .
This diagram shows the universe, and time progressing from left-to-right.
At [ Time = 0 ]is when "God" supposedly created the universe.
Let us suppose that at some time into the history of the universe, an event E will occur.
According to you, Syed, so long as event E does not involve human "free will", "God" knows in advance, (to the left), along the black arrow of time, that E is going to occur.
I am presuming that "God" knew what "he" was doing, and how it would turn out, before "he" created the universe.
What I am looking to find an answer for is: (according to Islamic teaching, the Qur'an, and you yourself, Syed),
< Did "God" know that event E, was going to happen before "he" supposedly created the universe ??? >
To completely avoid the problem of supposed "free will", suppose event E is something non-human, like a particular apple falling from a particular tree.
Attachments
C_Mucius_Scaevola
Veteran Member
You can believe what you want, Syed. No skin off my nose. And I have no doubt you know Islam and the koran better than I do.
In this instance, however, you're going against the scholarly consensus of over 1000 years of koranic interpretation. And the translations you provided, instead of supporting your claim, support mine. I can tell you that categorically, as my knowledge of English s obviously better than yours.
So believe if you want that Mo' didn't split the moon. For what it's worth, I don't believe he did, either. The difference is, I don't believe it because it's patently absurd, while apparently you disbelieve it because you don't want your precious holy book tainted with absurdities. That's fair enough, but it makes me wonder: how many other parts of the koran would you throw out because they're absurd? Because there are many more than just that one, you know ...
And once you decide that the Quran is incorrect on one point, it's hard to know where to stop....
what does "E" represent ?
and
do you mean did god KNEW in advance HOW future materials universe look like from point 0 to point "E"?
to MY understanding of islam NO but god does know appleS will fall to the ground
maybe this will help you
does god know a baby will grow up to adulthood and die with cancer? NO
does god knew a adult has cancer before diagnoses? yes
Last edited:
i dont reject prophet splitting of moon because of absurdities, i rejected because its a lie or misunderstanding
god can turn moon into powder and he can returned moon into solid billions times over
another point
god gave prophets power to perform miracles in public so people come to believe in god
if god himself split the moon, how does pagans arabs know it was god of muhammed split the moon?
DBT
Contributor
The moon was never split.
C_Mucius_Scaevola
Veteran Member
So we agree that Mo' didn't split the moon. Fine. Although I think we'd already established that neither of us believed that. The argument was whether the koran passage referred (obliquely) to that. And in that, you're not just arguing against me, but the consensus of over 1000 years of tafsir. Good luck with that.
Is there anybody who says "god himself split the moon"? Not that I know of. The story is that "god" gave Mo' the power to do it, and he did it. So your question is irrelevant.
I have a question for you, though, Syed: are you "koran-only", or do you believe the hadith are also important in being a muslim?
in time of the prophet there was NO sunni, shia, sufi, wahabi, salife, quran only sects
so the understanding of islam have been CHANGED for many reason because of the quran gave very LITTLE information about EVERY subject and human are lazy and corrupted
quran does not say prophet split the moon so i cant say prophet split the moon
NO,
( sunni is a CULT of abu bakr ) and ( shia is a CULT of ali ) but both claimed they are cult of prophet muhammed pbuh
sunni are follower of sunnah and shia are follower of prophet's family BUT prophet muhammed is the follower of quran a book from god
would sunni and shia gave up your cult and join prophet muhammed ? note i dont reject hadiths
did abu bakr knew that there will be sunni cult in his name after he died? NO
did ali knew that there will be shia cult in his name after he died? NO
( sunnism and shiaism ) is about worshiping and glorifying early islamic war heroes NOT about glorifying our creator ALLAH
( me sunni or shia ? )
prophet mohammed was not sunni nor shia so i am not any of those and also dont believe in school of thought madhab like prophet, nor i am trying to invent my own cult
( CONTRADICTION between QURAN and HADITHS )
allah say dont kill apostate ( no compulsion in religion ) and prophet muhammed say kill the apostate ( hadith )
who do you follow allah or prophet? did the prophet muhammed disobeyed allah and kill the apostate ?
satan ibliss was FIRST apostate who disobeyed allah but allah did not kill or destroy him
does prophet have right to make his OWN rules which is against allah's rules ?
could apostasy hadith be false ? it is possible that mullah / scholar made apostate hadith ?
( hadiths are curse and blessing for muslims ) hadiths guide muslim to understand islam and also misguide muslims about islam and allah ..... hadiths create lots of fitnah among muslims so please chose hadiths wisely