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DBT
Contributor
Omniscient means absolute knowledge. Everything that can be known is known.
Ya, that's part of the definition of omniscience. He knows what the results of everything will be.
so omniscience knowingly that i will kill but he demanded that i shouldn't kill ?
James Brown
Veteran Member
Yes, it's quite a puzzle, isn't it.
That's why, at its most basic, the omniscience in one being means the lack of free will in another being. You can have one or the other, but not both.
Yes. He knows what you will do. If he gives you an order and you disobey that order, he knew that you were going to disobey it before he gave it to you.
If you find that not making sense, the reason is because the concept of omniscience doesn't make a whole lot of sense and is a fairly illogical trait.
so all christians are calvinists?
god already determent who go to heaven and who go to hell?
No, not all Christians are Calvinists, but Calvinists are the only group of Christians which anyone can have even a modicum of respect for. They realized the logical implications of the tenets of their faith and they went with it instead of twisting their little minds into intellectual loopholes to try and hide from those implications. Their version of faith is stupid in a lot of other ways, of course, but they're less stupid than other Christians on this one point;
the reason all christians are not calvinists because god did not predetermine our destiny
atheists and calvinists are predeterminist
DBT
Contributor
Your perception that God is saying to you that you shouldn't kill may the manipulation/causal factor that determines what you do. Information that effects how you think, consequently, how you behave.....regardless of whether an actual god exists, or not.
God knew you were going to say that.
you are looking for excuse not to believe in god and you found millions
Ya, it's almost like it's really fucking easy to find reasons not to buy into that bullshit.
Atheos
Veteran Member
The problem here is that Syed and all Muslims are looking for excuse not to believe that Jesus is the "Way, the Truth and the Life, and that no man can come to the Father but by him." They'd rather believe in anything other than to accept that Jesus is the only source of their chances of eternal life, and that by believing and teaching "another gospel" they are condemning themselves and others to damnation (Galatians 1:8-9).
This is obviously written a bit tongue in cheek but it illustrates what I believe is a valid point from the perspective of a skeptic. Each devout believer of any particular religion will say things like this, arguing that the only reason I'm a skeptic is because I'm looking for reasons not to accept the truth of whatever they're selling. That's an absurd charge and entirely untrue.
Compelling evidence convinces people even of what they don't want to know. People don't want to believe they have cancer but when the evidence is undeniable they are forced to accept it. Beliefs that you have to "want" to believe are no better than a child wanting to continue believing in Santa Claus.
Religious beliefs all have in common the fact that their arguments are only compelling as long as one allows himself to remain closely affiliated with like-minded believers who study, talk about and fill themselves with conviction that whatever they believe is true. People who drift away from congregational religious affiliation tend to become less convicted of the truths of whatever they believed while they were immersing themselves in it.
This is obviously written a bit tongue in cheek but it illustrates what I believe is a valid point from the perspective of a skeptic. Each devout believer of any particular religion will say things like this, arguing that the only reason I'm a skeptic is because I'm looking for reasons not to accept the truth of whatever they're selling. That's an absurd charge and entirely untrue.
Compelling evidence convinces people even of what they don't want to know. People don't want to believe they have cancer but when the evidence is undeniable they are forced to accept it. Beliefs that you have to "want" to believe are no better than a child wanting to continue believing in Santa Claus.
Religious beliefs all have in common the fact that their arguments are only compelling as long as one allows himself to remain closely affiliated with like-minded believers who study, talk about and fill themselves with conviction that whatever they believe is true. People who drift away from congregational religious affiliation tend to become less convicted of the truths of whatever they believed while they were immersing themselves in it.
Keith&Co.
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But you also believe that ALL christains are wrong, just by virtue of their beliefs.
You've mocked the trinity, for example, time and again.
What reason can you possibly give that would make us think you're more riht than they are?
No, Syed, that's incorrect.
You're confusing atheism with an atheist discussing the consequences of a particular theistic belief.
muslims believe in jesus and his god
here is some evidence that god chose not to know
Quran
We decreed your former qiblah ( TEMPLE MOUNT JERUSALEM) only in order that We might know the Prophet's true adherents and those who were to disown him. It was indeed a hard test, but not for those whom Allah guided. (Surah al-Baqarah, 2:143 )
Atheos
Veteran Member
You have a very annoying habit of clipping out the bits that are problematic for you and only partially responding to what remains. Do you believe that Jesus is the only way to get to God?
My challenge was not whether or not Muslims accepted that Jesus was a prophet (on par with other prophets that went before). I already knew that the "Son of Mary" is described in the Koran as such.
But the christian bible does not stop there. It plainly declares that Jesus is the "Only way" to achieve salvation (John 14:6). It makes plain that one must accept that Jesus is the one-of-a-kind, unique Son of God, and that there is no other name under heaven whereby men must be saved (Acts 4:12). It declares that teaching any other gospel to the contrary (Gal 1:8-9) renders the individual anathema (destined for destruction). The teachings of Islam are clearly at the very least a different gospel, one that Paul had not preached to the Galatians, and the very sort of thing he would have been referring to when he said "If we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that which I have preached, let him be accursed."
I do not think it is possible to reconcile the two religions from that standpoint but I am willing to listen openly to what you have to say, provided you don't just clip out the inconvenient stuff like you did the last time.
sdelsolray
Member
Syed thinks this is evidence. Funny stuff.