Syed's Mega-Thread

[Syed]

Death and Life in Islam

Death and Life in Islam

some of the thing from the quran AND MY own understanding of the quran about death

god gave life and god take life

you can not kill yourselves and no one can kill you ( need more explanation here )

when human child in the mother womb angel put life = soul into fetus

when human became unconscious or not breathing angel take out our life = soul from our body

we know there are thousands of way human die, diseases, accident, murder, suicide, drowning, earthquake,fire burn,killed in war

WHEN does god take away our life AND in what conditions god take away our life?

ONLY one condition our life take away from us

god created human to put to TEST

our TEST is to choose between GOOD deed and BAD deed on this earth

our test END when we die

when we are dead no more test, we passed the test or we failed the test

if we chose to do good deed we go to the heaven

if we chose to do bad deed we go to the hell

god appointed two angels to EVERY human being to record our good deed and bad deed

god recording video of our every action 24/7 until we die


human who are STILL live TODAY, some of them are PASSED the TEST and some of them are FAILED the TEST and some of them are NEITHER passed the TEST nor failed the TEST


angels ONLY take our life when we passed the test or failed the test ( need more explanation )

if we neither passed the test nor failed the test and we died, we are martyr

MARTYR straight GO to the heaven

who are MARTYR in islam?

under age child

pregnant woman

died for faith

people who died neither passed nor failed the TEST ( need more explanation )

people who died by stomach pain

people who drowned to death

but go to the heaven required believe in god and be good human a MUST

NOW i will explain how do angels take our life?

example

if a adult person name john had accident with 16 wheeler truck and his brain crushed into millions piece, angels will visit to him in split of second and look into his deeds record and decide weather to take his life or not YET

1, is he passed the TEST ?

2, is he failed the TEST ?

3, is he be a martyr ?

4, is there other reason we should keep him alive ?

5, should we give him a CHANCE to pass or fail the TEST ?

based on above scenario angels take action

if angels decided to keep john alive, angel will heal his body and john will walk away from accident without HARM

thats is MY understanding of islam on death and allah knows the best

i know that you may have many questions, i will try to answer best as i can

 

[Gila Guerilla]

what does "E" represent ?

and

do you mean did god KNEW in advance HOW future materials universe look like from point 0 to point "E"?

To completely avoid the problem of supposed "free will", suppose event E is something non-human, like a particular apple falling from a particular tree.

to MY understanding of islam NO but god does know appleS will fall to the ground

maybe this will help you

does god know a baby will grow up to adulthood and die with cancer? NO

does god knew a adult has cancer before diagnoses? yes

If you take E to be any event that does not involve human "free will", your interpretation of my diagram is OK, Syed' but you theology seems very strange!
"God" knows about cancer, but "God" does not know about apples.
Isn't "God's" knowledge complete and perfect - even of trivial things ???

Your claim, Syed, is not supported by many Muslims for example:-

9. "Does God know everything that is going to happen? - Does He have absolute control on the outcome of everything? - If so, how is that fair for us? Where is our free will then?" Answer:
Allah Knows everything that will happen. The first thing that He created was the "pen" and He ordered the pen to write. The pen wrote until it had written everything that would happen. And then Allah began to create the universe. All of this was already known to Him before He created it. He does have absolute and total control at all times. There is nothing that happens except that He is in control of if.
https://www.islamtomorrow.com/allah.asp#9

Does God Know Future?
Does God know everything that is going to happen? -
Does He have absolute control on the outcome of everything? -
If so, how is that fair for us? Where is our free will then?

Allah knows everything that will happen. The first thing that He created was the "pen" and He ordered the pen to write. The pen wrote until it had written everything that would happen. And then Allah began to create the universe. All of this was already known to Him before He created it. He does have absolute and total control at all times. There is nothing that happens except that He is in total control of it at all times.
http://www.godallah.com/future.php

God’s foreknowledge is infallible.
https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/40/belief-in-divine-decree/

Posted by Orthodox

Quote

your marriage partner is not destined by Allah
​

I doubt this is correct. Everything was preordained by Allah.
http://www.gawaher.com/topic/732392-has-your-marriage-partner-already-destine-for-you-by-allah/

Posted by Malaika
Sister EVERYTHING we do is pre-destined.
https://www.islamicboard.com/family-society/55322-marriage-pre-destined.html

Posted by Musilmmaghareeba
The person whom you will marry is known to Allaah

IF TRUE, this is a case of human "free will" foreknown by "God" ~ Gila Guerilla

So how then can Allah Almighty punish us for committing suicide if He is the one who determines the time of our deaths?
The answer is simple. It is true that Allah Almighty had already fixed our birth and death times, but He left the causes of our deaths open
http://www.answering-islam.com/life_death.htm

Posted by Faraz Rabbani
Allah Himself states, “There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him, and He is all-hearing, all-seeing” (42:11)
http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2013/05/27/allahs-relationship-with-time-and-space/

Posted by Sheikh Salman al-OadahThe name al-`Allām appears four times in the Qur’an. This is the most emphatic form of the word, emphasizing the perfection and totality of Allah’s knowledge. For instance: “Surely You have full knowledge of all that is unseen.” [Sūrah al-Mā’idah: 109]

Allah’s knowledge is complete and perfect. It comprehends the past, present and future and always corresponds to reality. Allah says: “Does He not know what He has created, and He is the Most Kind, the All-Aware.” [Sūrah al-Mulk: 14]
Allah’s knowledge is neither acquired through learning nor preceded by ignorance. Allah’s knowledge compasses all things, as does His mercy and wisdom. Nothing in the heavens or on Earth escapes His notice. Allah says: “There falls not a leaf but He knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the Earth, nor anything green nor withered but it is all in a clear book.” [Sūrah al-An`ām: 59]

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-429-3946.htm

1.God is All-Knowing

2.God is All-Powerful
3.God is All-Good (or All-Loving, or All-Merciful

http://islamrevived.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/if-god-exists-why-is-there-evil-in.html

And surely, All- means: "No exceptions" ???. ~ Gila Guerilla

Posted by Sam Shamon
Muslims often criticize the biblical portrayal of God. For instance, Muslims take offense at the biblical portrait of God as having to search out situations and look into things in order to gain knowledge about certain events. For example, we are told in Genesis 18:20-21 that God needed to go down to Sodom and Gomorrah to see whether, or not, the reports about their wickedness were true.

Muslims see such references as an argument against the Holy Bible since a perfect God knows all things and doesn't need to find out anything.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allahs_ignorance.htm

Thus if "God" is perfect, and I'd assume you agree with that, Syed, then "God's knowledge must be perfect, (past, present and future).

Posted by Omar Chad
We should know that nothing can exist without God (swt). In one authentic Hadith, the prophet said that Allah (swt) has predestined [written] in the preserved tablet, 50,000 years before the creation of Heaven and Earth,all what will happen till the Day of resurrection.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-Islam-reconcile-Allahs-omniscience-and-humans-free-will

For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing." (Qur'an 2:115)
http://www.religionfacts.com/allah

Posted by King Koopa
"Say ‘Nothing will happen to us but what God has ordained for us; God is our protector.’"
"And God leaves people astray at will, and guides anyone at will"
"No calamity occurs on earth, or to yourselves, but is in a decree before We created it. That is easy for God"
http://councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=10309.0

And here, a list of links to information about "God's" supposed omniscience or foreknowledge . . .

Consult Quran

Omnisicient

• Aa-Knows Hidden & Revealed [nukhfi Wa Ma_ Nu'lin]
• Alimil Gaibi
• Alimun Hakima [all-knowing Wise]
• All Aware Finest Mysteries [latifan Khabira]
• ALL AWARE [syaiin Alim]
• All Hearing-all Seeing [samiul Basir]
• All Knowing (syaiin Alim)
• All Wise Creator [khallakul Alim]
• All-hearing All-knowing[samiul Alim]
• All-hearing Knowing [as-Samee Samiam Basira]
• All-knowing All-hearing(Samiun Alim)
• All-mighty All-knowing [azizul Alim]
• All-seer [tamaluna Basir]
• Aware Of Everything [tamaluna Khabira]
• Aware Of Little Things
• AWare [bihii Aliim]
• Aware-watcher[khabirum Basira]
• Encompass All In Knowledge [biqulli Shain Elma]
• [aware-all-seeing] Lakhabirum Basir
• [sirrakum Wa Jahrakum]

{Found on page: http://www.consultquran.com/?/i/=/499}

These are a mixed bag of references, but they all tell us that "God" has perfect future knowledge of all things, (in Islam).
If they are wrong, can you please quote Qur'anic verses which show this and explain them to me, Syed ???

 

[Syed]

Gila Guerilla

first MY understanding of islam is little different from other muslims

they believe their sect chosen by allah ie they only go to heaven and all other sects go to hell and every sect say the same

in the quran allah said dont make sect

NOW there is a verse in the quran allah said that i have not YET found out who will stay in right path ( or something like that)

and i dont know how to find that verse

 

[DBT]

“Know you not that Allah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily ... Verily, that is easy for Allah” (Quran, al-Hajj 22:70)

 

[DBT]

Sorry, Syed, that looks like something cooked up in the minds of 9th century thinkers.

 

[Syed]

Sorry, Syed, that looks like something cooked up in the minds of 9th century thinkers.

for you religions is fairy tale, not surprised there but you should be telling us why it nonsense ? just ask question for fun PLEASE

 

[Syed]

“Know you not that Allah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily ... Verily, that is easy for Allah” (Quran, al-Hajj 22:70)

yes that is true but he chose not to know human future action otherwise it make no-sense

religious people do misunderstood their scripture

 

[Methinx]

yes that is true but he chose not to know human future action otherwise it make no-sense

Will they not ponder the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it. (Qur'an, 4:82)
Every time a Muslim gets an interpretive idea they want to reform Islam. Just like you do.

religious people do misunderstood their scripture

'religious people' like you?

 

[DBT]

“Know you not that Allah knows all that is in the heaven and on the earth? Verily ... Verily, that is easy for Allah” (Quran, al-Hajj 22:70)

yes that is true but he chose not to know human future action otherwise it make no-sense

religious people do misunderstood their scripture

But what you say is not what the Quran is saying. Where in the Quran does it say that Allah chooses not to know future human actions?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

As with the "splitting of the moon" example we were discussing, it appears Syed has decided he's right about Allah's omniscience, and the consensus of 16 centuries of koranic scholarship is wrong.

Reminds me of a joke about a woman watching a military parade pass by, where one single soldier out of the hundreds of soldiers is marching one beat behind the rest. She proudly points out this one soldier, her son as it happens, saying, "they're all out of step but our John!".

It's funny, Syed claims he's not into sects, but the more he posts, the more I'm convinced he's got his own little sect going - a sect of one.

 

[Syed]

As with the "splitting of the moon" example we were discussing, it appears Syed has decided he's right about Allah's omniscience, and the consensus of 16 centuries of koranic scholarship is wrong.

Reminds me of a joke about a woman watching a military parade pass by, where one single soldier out of the hundreds of soldiers is marching one beat behind the rest. She proudly points out this one soldier, her son as it happens, saying, "they're all out of step but our John!".

It's funny, Syed claims he's not into sects, but the more he posts, the more I'm convinced he's got his own little sect going - a sect of one.

my prediction is in near future 50 to 100 years all sects of islam will be DISSOLVED, the FIRST ALL shia sects will be dissolved and followed by wahabi /salafi and then sufi and lastly sunni sect and eventually ALL sects of islam will be dissolved

what the reason shia sects will be DISSOLVED first?

because shia love ali, hussein and all the prophet family members THEN allah and the prophet muhammad

muslims corrupted real message of islam like christians corrupted real message of jesus

 

[Syed]

yes that is true but he chose not to know human future action otherwise it make no-sense

religious people do misunderstood their scripture

But what you say is not what the Quran is saying. Where in the Quran does it say that Allah chooses not to know future human actions?

there is a verse in the quran but i cant find now

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

As with the "splitting of the moon" example we were discussing, it appears Syed has decided he's right about Allah's omniscience, and the consensus of 16 centuries of koranic scholarship is wrong.

Reminds me of a joke about a woman watching a military parade pass by, where one single soldier out of the hundreds of soldiers is marching one beat behind the rest. She proudly points out this one soldier, her son as it happens, saying, "they're all out of step but our John!".

It's funny, Syed claims he's not into sects, but the more he posts, the more I'm convinced he's got his own little sect going - a sect of one.

my prediction is in near future 50 to 100 years all sects of islam will be DISSOLVED, the FIRST ALL shia sects will be dissolved and followed by wahabi /salafi and then sufi and lastly sunni sect and eventually ALL sects of islam will be dissolved

what the reason shia sects will be DISSOLVED first?

because shia love ali, hussein and all the prophet family members THEN allah and the prophet muhammad

muslims corrupted real message of islam like christians corrupted real message of jesus

Actually, Syed, I see it going exactly the other way. Not only will the sects not "dissolve", but as time goes on, there will be more and more sects. Some of the smaller ones might disappear, one way or another, but the biggest ones will remain, and be joined by new ones every now and then.

Why do I say this? Because history shows that's the way things go with religions. Pick any religion you like, and you'll see they all start off with one small group, which grows and splits, grows and splits, grows and splits ... There are always (usually tiny) doctrinal differences which arise and aren't resolved, leading to splinter movements, which themselves splinter when confronted with further differences, and so on ad infinitum.It's just the way people are, and there's no known way to stop it happening, short of killing off anybody who disagrees.

Your claim that the Shia sect will "dissolve" because "shia love ali, hussein and all the prophet family members THEN allah and the prophet muhammad" is palpable nonsense, not least because there is no such thing as the Shia sect; there are three main brances, each with its own sub-branches. But not only that, they've got over 1400 years of tradition behind them of "lov(ing) ali, hussein and all the prophet family members THEN allah and the prophet muhammad". You don't sweep away that kind of tradition in a few decades, if at all.

 

[DBT]

But what you say is not what the Quran is saying. Where in the Quran does it say that Allah chooses not to know future human actions?

there is a verse in the quran but i cant find now

Are you going to keep trying to find it?

 

[Syed]

there is a verse in the quran but i cant find now

Are you going to keep trying to find it?

i found this one but other one was very clear

Quran
Verily, We created man from a drop of mingled sperm so that We may test him; and therefore We made him hearing and seeing. We have indeed showed him the way, now he be grateful or ungrateful. (76:3)

does god already knew that i would be ungrateful before i was born?

Quran
Verily, We shall put you to test with some fear, and hunger, and with some loss of wealth, lives, and offspring. And (O Muhammad) convey good tidings to those who are patient, who say, when inflicted by hardship, "Verily we are of God and verily to Him shall we return;" upon them is the blessings of Allah and His mercy. (2:155)

does your teacher already know the result of your math test before you gave math test?

in other verse god clearly say he does not know

 

[DBT]

Are you going to keep trying to find it?

i found this one but other one was very clear

Quran
Verily, We created man from a drop of mingled sperm so that We may test him; and therefore We made him hearing and seeing. We have indeed showed him the way, now he be grateful or ungrateful. (76:3)

does god already knew that i would be ungrateful before i was born?

Quran
Verily, We shall put you to test with some fear, and hunger, and with some loss of wealth, lives, and offspring. And (O Muhammad) convey good tidings to those who are patient, who say, when inflicted by hardship, "Verily we are of God and verily to Him shall we return;" upon them is the blessings of Allah and His mercy. (2:155)

does your teacher already know the result of your math test before you gave math test?

in other verse god clearly say he does not know

None of that suggests that Allah chooses not to know the outcome of human trials. In relation to the narrative, Allah can know the outcome (being omniscient) but the trial is played out for the benefit of the person experiencing the challenges before them. Just like a parent lets their children compete in a race where the winners and losers of the race are already known to them but its all in the playing of the game.

 

[Syed]

i found this one but other one was very clear

Quran
Verily, We created man from a drop of mingled sperm so that We may test him; and therefore We made him hearing and seeing. We have indeed showed him the way, now he be grateful or ungrateful. (76:3)

does god already knew that i would be ungrateful before i was born?

Quran
Verily, We shall put you to test with some fear, and hunger, and with some loss of wealth, lives, and offspring. And (O Muhammad) convey good tidings to those who are patient, who say, when inflicted by hardship, "Verily we are of God and verily to Him shall we return;" upon them is the blessings of Allah and His mercy. (2:155)

does your teacher already know the result of your math test before you gave math test?

in other verse god clearly say he does not know

None of that suggests that Allah chooses not to know the outcome of human trials. In relation to the narrative, Allah can know the outcome (being omniscient) but the trial is played out for the benefit of the person experiencing the challenges before them. Just like a parent lets their children compete in a race where the winners and losers of the race are already known to them but its all in the playing of the game.

does your teacher already know the result of your math test before you gave math test?

 

[DBT]

None of that suggests that Allah chooses not to know the outcome of human trials. In relation to the narrative, Allah can know the outcome (being omniscient) but the trial is played out for the benefit of the person experiencing the challenges before them. Just like a parent lets their children compete in a race where the winners and losers of the race are already known to them but its all in the playing of the game.

does your teacher already know the result of your math test before you gave math test?

An earthly teacher is not omniscient, but knowing his pupils strengths and weaknesses may have a reasonable idea of how each pupil is likely to perform in a test. The better he knows them, the more accurate is her/his assessment of their likely performance. His goal being to help his students overcome their weaknesses and do better in exams.

 

[Syed]

does your teacher already know the result of your math test before you gave math test?

An earthly teacher is not omniscient, but knowing his pupils strengths and weaknesses may have a reasonable idea of how each pupil is likely to perform in a test. The better he knows them, the more accurate is her/his assessment of their likely performance. His goal being to help his students overcome their weaknesses and do better in exams.

why do you think omniscient want to take a test if he is already knew the result ?

 

[DBT]

An earthly teacher is not omniscient, but knowing his pupils strengths and weaknesses may have a reasonable idea of how each pupil is likely to perform in a test. The better he knows them, the more accurate is her/his assessment of their likely performance. His goal being to help his students overcome their weaknesses and do better in exams.

why do you think omniscient want to take a test if he is already knew the result ?

It's not the omniscient that is taking the test, but the ignorant human who feels that they are being tested and so try to do their best.