Tara Reade is a person who exists

[Derec]

What is your evidence Sulkowitz was lying?

The text messages that indicate that it was consensual and that she had pursued a relationship with him after the encounter that she subsequently claimed to be rape.
Also her bizarre behavior since then.

It is not absolute proof of course, but the weight of the evidence is against Mattress Girl. And yet feminists like Kristen Gillibrand and NOW believe her solely because she has a vagina.

 

[Toni]

What is your evidence Sulkowitz was lying?

The text messages that indicate that it was consensual and that she had pursued a relationship with him after the encounter that she subsequently claimed to be rape.
Also her bizarre behavior since then.

It is not absolute proof of course, but the weight of the evidence is against Mattress Girl. And yet feminists like Kristen Gillibrand and NOW believe her solely because she has a vagina.

No, the text messages do not prove anything. Women who are raped by their husbands often stay married to them. In fact, ‘making nice’ is a well known way of attempting to avoid more abuse in a marriage or other relationship. A lot of rape violence crimson blame themselves for the abuse, and seek to minimize what happened—even when they require treatment at the ER. Many victims of all kinds of trauma seek to minimize what happened, and sometimes doubt their own memories. Memories can be suppressed, and rerun in fragments that are hard to understand.

The fact that multiple other individuals came forward to state that he was sexually violent with them gives a lot of credence to what is otherwise a he said/she said kind of case. It seems to be more than just a matter of perception about consent. He seems to have a real problem with anger (see: male victim) and consent issues. I hope no one else comes within an arms length of him. And that he gets a lot of much needed therapy.

 

[KeepTalking]

Getting back to Tara Reade. Suppose she is telling the truth and Biden did sexually harass/molest her? Apparently in a national election in the US, that is not a significant negative, otherwise the human shitpost that is our President would not have been elected.

Right. Even if her story is true in every detail she currently provides, that leaves me with a choice between a one time sexual assaulter who is at least ashamed enough of his actions to deny them, and serial sexual assaulter who bragged about it. I know who I am going with, and that is even before weighing character, demeanor, policy and ideology between the two "men".

Jesus Christ, why do I keep coming back here

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I'm not sure what part of the truth you are having a hard time coming to grips with. I am guessing it is the part where you think there is a viable third option, well there isn't because nothing will come of this allegation. Maybe if it were something akin to a proven allegation, Biden would have the shame and good sense that Trump doesn't have, and step aside to give Bernie a chance, but that isn't going to happen. We will have the choice between Biden and Trump in November. I didn't vote for Biden in the primary, but voting for anyone else in the general gets us Trump again.

 

[Arctish]

nm

 

[Arctish]

nm

I won't contribute to what is clearly an attempt to derail the conversation.

 

[Metaphor]

No, the text messages do not prove anything. Women who are raped by their husbands often stay married to them.

Nungesser and Sulkowicz were not only not married, they weren't even in a romantic relationship.

The fact that multiple other individuals came forward to state that he was sexually violent with them gives a lot of credence to what is otherwise a he said/she said kind of case.

The other accusers accusations seem to be about as believable as Sulkowicz's. But, no doubt, you believe them but not Tara Reade, because you're allowed to make conclusions from circumstances but I'm not.

 

[Metaphor]

That needs its own thread. But in short:

• feminism is built on a false foundation--patriarchy theory.
• feminism has other unproven foundations--for example that inequitable outcomes can arise only from unequal treatment.
• feminists have co-opted other causes (e.g. lgbt) because the feminist demand for misogyny exceeds the supply.
• feminists are deeply hypocritical when they claim to promote the equality of the sexes, yet 'equality' is operationalised as 'at least as good as or better off than men'. The World Economic Forum publishes an annual 'Global Gender Gap' report. Countries are scored on a scale from 0 (worst gender gap) to 1 (no gender gap). But '1' is a lie. Look at page 12. Australia gets a score of 1.0 for educational attainment, because, by the methodology used in the report, at least as many women get degrees as men. But of course there is a gender gap in education attainment. Boys are doing worse. It's just they don't care if boys are doing worse.
• feminists (the ones that will survive, anyway) have adopted Woke left ideology, a destructive and pernicious ideology that is obsessed with categorising people and awarding privilege based on that categorisation.

Wow. I was expecting at least some shallow attempt to whitewash your view and make it less offensive. I suppose I have to give you props for owning your own hatred of independent women I guess.

How do you go from the points I've made above to "Metaphor hates independent women"? Please spell it out for me, because I've never hated independent women.

 

[Harry Bosch]

DNC: elevating probable rapists (but with fewer outstanding allegations than Trump!) to the presidency since 2020 (well, 1992 really)

Probable rapists?! Good heavens. You have some evidence for this allegation? I hope strong evidence?

 

[Arctish]

No, the text messages do not prove anything. Women who are raped by their husbands often stay married to them.

Nungesser and Sulkowicz were not only not married, they weren't even in a romantic relationship.

You missed the point.

People who have experienced sexual abuse within an existing relationship often stay in it at first. Being in denial, blaming themselves for the 'miscommunication', making excuses for their partner, etc. are extremely common initial reactions.

And who says their relationship wasn't romantic that night they has sex? Nungesser? What, does he call it mindless f**king and you believe Sulkowicz felt the same way? That she had no romantic feelings for the guy?

They didn't hook-up on a site like Grindr, you know.

The fact that multiple other individuals came forward to state that he was sexually violent with them gives a lot of credence to what is otherwise a he said/she said kind of case.

The other accusers accusations seem to be about as believable as Sulkowicz's. But, no doubt, you believe them but not Tara Reade, because you're allowed to make conclusions from circumstances but I'm not.

What do you know about the others? Anything? Anything at all apart from the fact that they exist?

If there were 3 additional people who claimed that Joe Biden had sexually assaulted them, people who had the same kind of close contact with Biden that Nungesser's accusers had with him, would that in any way affect your belief regarding Reade's accusation, or would it not matter at all?

 

[Metaphor]

You missed the point.

People who have experienced sexual abuse within an existing relationship often stay in it at first. Being in denial, blaming themselves for the 'miscommunication', making excuses for their partner, etc. are extremely common initial reactions.

And who says their relationship wasn't romantic that night they has sex? Nungesser? What, does he call it mindless f**king and you believe Sulkowicz felt the same way? That she had no romantic feelings for the guy?

Actually, I think she did have romantic feelings, given the contents of her text messages. And I think his failure to respond to that prompted her accusation.

What do you know about the others? Anything? Anything at all apart from the fact that they exist?

Two of them are detailed in the daily beast article.

If there were 3 additional people who claimed that Joe Biden had sexually assaulted them, people who had the same kind of close contact with Biden that Nungesser's accusers had with him, would that in any way affect your belief regarding Reade's accusation, or would it not matter at all?

One of Nungesser's accusers barely knew him. Another was an ex-girlfriend who did not start to think of her time with him as 'problematic' until months after their relationship ended (she probably started reading feminist propaganda). I don't know the details of the third person who accused Nungesser.

Now, as it is, I did not say whether or not I believed Tara Reade. But yes, if multiple independent people come out against Biden, that is more evidence against him.

 

[Metaphor]

Note the astounding hypocrisy of Toni in this thread: she does not believe Tara Reade, but she feels entitled to call judgment on my own disbelief in Sulkowicz's narrative.

 

[Derec]

If there were 3 additional people who claimed that Joe Biden had sexually assaulted them, people who had the same kind of close contact with Biden that Nungesser's accusers had with him, would that in any way affect your belief regarding Reade's accusation, or would it not matter at all?

In your hypothetical, are they all Tara Reid's friends?

 

[Derec]

No, the text messages do not prove anything.

Prove? No. But they are evidence. And the burden of proof is on the accuser, no matter how badly you want to flip it.

Women who are raped by their husbands often stay married to them. In fact, ‘making nice’ is a well known way of attempting to avoid more abuse in a marriage or other relationship.

They were not married. They were not even boyfriend and girlfriend. In fact, evidence shows Mattress Girl wanted a relationship, and when he didn't want one, she decided to falsely accuse him of rape.

A lot of rape violence crimson blame themselves for the abuse, and seek to minimize what happened—even when they require treatment at the ER.

None of which applies here.

The fact that multiple other individuals came forward to state that he was sexually violent with them gives a lot of credence to what is otherwise a he said/she said kind of case.

Not really. Columbia investigated and even with the low burden of proof Obama/Biden forced colleges to use, nothing came out of it.
Note also that the other accusers were friends with Mattress Girl. So collusion is likely.

And that he gets a lot of much needed therapy.

If anybody needs therapy, it's Mattress Girl.

 

[Arctish]

Actually, I think she did have romantic feelings, given the contents of her text messages. And I think his failure to respond to that prompted her accusation.

Two of them are detailed in the daily beast article.

If there were 3 additional people who claimed that Joe Biden had sexually assaulted them, people who had the same kind of close contact with Biden that Nungesser's accusers had with him, would that in any way affect your belief regarding Reade's accusation, or would it not matter at all?

One of Nungesser's accusers barely knew him. Another was an ex-girlfriend who did not start to think of her time with him as 'problematic' until months after their relationship ended (she probably started reading feminist propaganda). I don't know the details of the third person who accused Nungesser.

Now, as it is, I did not say whether or not I believed Tara Reade. But yes, if multiple independent people come out against Biden, that is more evidence against him.

One was at a party Nungesser also attended and alleges he followed her and assaulted her. That would be comparable to someone saying they were at an event with Biden and he followed them down a hallway and assaulted them.

One was in a romantic relationship with Nungesser. That would be comparable to a former girlfriend of Biden's claiming he sexually abused them.

The other was a fellow student who says Nungesser sexually assaulted him in his dorm room , which would be comparable to a Congressman or aide saying Biden sexually assaulted him in a hotel where the two of them were chatting while on a business trip.

It's interesting that you would give credence to reports about Biden from multiple accusers but not the accounts of the four people who accuse Nungesser.

It's even more interesting to see you openly speculate that one of Nungesser's accusers "probably started reading feminist propaganda" as part of your justification for disbelieving all of them.

 

[Arctish]

If there were 3 additional people who claimed that Joe Biden had sexually assaulted them, people who had the same kind of close contact with Biden that Nungesser's accusers had with him, would that in any way affect your belief regarding Reade's accusation, or would it not matter at all?

In your hypothetical, are they all Tara Reid's friends?

No.

Are you implying that the guy who filed a report on Nungesser a year before that fateful night Nungesser and Sulkowicz had sex is a friend of hers, or that this alleged friendship is the reason he reported that Nungesser sexually assaulted him?

Or are you just asking for no particular reason?

 

[Metaphor]

The other was a fellow student who says Nungesser sexually assaulted him in his dorm room , which would be comparable to a Congressman or aide saying Biden sexually assaulted him in a hotel where the two of them were chatting while on a business trip.

It's interesting that you would give credence to reports about Biden from multiple accusers but not the accounts of the four people who accuse Nungesser.

It isn't at all clear to me what the ex-girlfriend's complaint is about. She alleges problematic behaviour but describes nothing.

But in any case, I did not say multiple accusers did not give credence to Sulkowicz's report. I said multiple independent accusers is more evidence against Nungesser and supporting Sulkowicz, but that does not mean it has tipped from disbelieving her to believing her.

It's even more interesting to see you openly speculate that one of Nungesser's accusers "probably started reading feminist propaganda" as part of your justification for disbelieving all of them.

There's hardly anything to disbelieve with the ex-girlfriend's narrative.

 

[Arctish]

The other was a fellow student who says Nungesser sexually assaulted him in his dorm room , which would be comparable to a Congressman or aide saying Biden sexually assaulted him in a hotel where the two of them were chatting while on a business trip.

It's interesting that you would give credence to reports about Biden from multiple accusers but not the accounts of the four people who accuse Nungesser.

It isn't at all clear to me what the ex-girlfriend's complaint is about. She alleges problematic behaviour but describes nothing.

But in any case, I did not say multiple accusers did not give credence to Sulkowicz's report. I said multiple independent accusers is more evidence against Nungesser and supporting Sulkowicz, but that does not mean it has tipped from disbelieving her to believing her.

It's even more interesting to see you openly speculate that one of Nungesser's accusers "probably started reading feminist propaganda" as part of your justification for disbelieving all of them.

There's hardly anything to disbelieve with the ex-girlfriend's narrative.

And there's nothing to suggest she started reading feminist propaganda but that didn't stopped you from thinking she "probably" did.

You're not just ignoring evidence, you're making sh*t up.

 

[Metaphor]

It isn't at all clear to me what the ex-girlfriend's complaint is about. She alleges problematic behaviour but describes nothing.

But in any case, I did not say multiple accusers did not give credence to Sulkowicz's report. I said multiple independent accusers is more evidence against Nungesser and supporting Sulkowicz, but that does not mean it has tipped from disbelieving her to believing her.



There's hardly anything to disbelieve with the ex-girlfriend's narrative.

And there's nothing to suggest she started reading feminist propaganda but that didn't stopped you from thinking she "probably" did.

You're not just ignoring evidence, you're making sh*t up.

If you think my comment (that she started reading feminist propaganda) was an actual assertion of an event that happened, I don't know what to tell you. It was a jab at feminism.

 

[Ford]

DNC: elevating probable rapists (but with fewer outstanding allegations than Trump!) to the presidency since 2020 (well, 1992 really)

"Probable rapists" seems a bit of a stretch in this case (which the thread has curiously stopped discussing entirely).

As Koy's linked article from earlier today points out, there are plenty of reasons to call Reade's account into question.

Right now, the only accusation that could be credibly leveled at Biden is that he's a bit too touchy-feely, and that's quite a long way from "probable rapist."

Regarding the DNC - the bogeyman of Bernie supporters like Reade - it is worth noting that when former VP and Presidential candidate was revealed to have had an affair and love child, he was unceremoniously thrown off the Democratic Party bus, so while their record on such things is inconsistent (cough...cough...Bill Clinton) accusations that they always turn a blind eye to this sort of behavior among their successful candidates must be taken with a pillar of salt.

Finally, the elephant in the room (pun entirely intended) is that considering the past behavior of the GOP's golden...well, orange...boy this is a really odd move. As I've mentioned before, I know someone who was on "The Apprentice," and has related a story about when Trump sized up her chest on set and told her something to the effect of "you're going to need to do something about those," which is a lot more creepy than "creepy Joe" touching someone's shoulders. If it weren't for Non-Disclosure Agreements and settlement agreements, you could have a parade of women who have been at a bare minimum sexually harassed by the current President, so for Biden's opponents to say "hold on now, we can't have this guy in the White House" is beyond absurd.

If the allegation by Reade turns out to be credible, then that's problematic to say the least. But at this point her allegation itself is rife with problems.



You may now continue sniping at each other over unrelated feminism.

 

[Arctish]

If you think my comment (that she started reading feminist propaganda) was an actual assertion of an event that happened, I don't know what to tell you. It was a jab at feminism.

Why are you jabbing at Feminism when the questions you're responding to are:

"What do you know about the others? Anything? Anything at all apart from the fact that they exist?"

and

"If there were 3 additional people who claimed that Joe Biden had sexually assaulted them, people who had the same kind of close contact with Biden that Nungesser's accusers had with him, would that in any way affect your belief regarding Reade's accusation, or would it not matter at all?"