Tasmania May Nix “Gender” From Birth Certificates to Support Trans Rights

[phands]

Are you listening, religiturds? Another glimmer of common sense, even if the leadership is lacking....

There’s a movement in Tasmania to remove information about “gender” on birth certificates in order to empower trans individuals. Among the concerns is that listing a gender based solely on one’s genitalia forces trans people to “out” themselves against their will when applying for jobs. Taking away that designation, they argue, would help an already vulnerable minority group without harming anyone else. (After all, when’s the last time you needed to consult your birth certificate to know your own gender? Never? Exactly.)


The Tasmanian government, however, disagrees.


While the idea was introduced in Parliament as part of a plan to bring the Australian state in line with the rest of the country on LGBTQ+ equality laws, Attorney General Elise Archer has pushed back against it because “no other state or territory” has made that change.


Real leadership, apparently, requires not leading.

http://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...m-birth-certificates-to-support-trans-rights/

 

[fast]

Gender isn't listed. Sex is.

It's either straight forward male or female or perhaps some rare anomaly. Most people infer gender from their sex, but if thats going to be our new taboo, then newly born males will continue to be just that. It's just the balloons won't say "it's a boy."

 

[Lion IRC]

Abolishing the words male and female is what passes for "common sense" in phands' universe.

Where's the liberal left's fanaticism to abolish the racist, unscientific words "black" and "white"?

 

[skepticalbip]

Such a law in the U.S. would cripple one of the far left's primary talking points. They could no longer blame everything they consider to be bad on "white males".

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Such a law in the U.S. would cripple one of the far left's primary talking points. They could no longer blame everything they consider to be bad on "white males".

They can blame them anyway, and be inconsistent about it. It would not be unusual (preemptive nitpicking: many, in my experience most leftists blame a lot of bad things on the people they deem to be White males, but they don't blame all bad things on them).

 

[repoman]

This is an overreaction for sure.

Because we have been cruel to transgender in the past and still now does not mean that society needs to upended like this.

If one were to take a poll of transgender people, especially ones who have been transitioned, do you think that this policy would be approved by most of them?



"biological sex" MUST remain a term or we will descend into a form of madness.

Oh, those evil transphobic obstetricians, assigning that the child was male of female based on genitals. When will this injustice end.

You want to stop discrimination against transgender, sure. But this is a retarded way to do it.




Riley, I want you to do what you want with your life and I don't want people to harass you. But The definition of "biological sex" should not be what it is that gets changed in the process of that.

By the way, Riley did transition after this video was made, and even if she did not (no money, medical reasons, etc...) that would not be a reason to discredit that Riley wants to be called She while also being biologically male. That is my offer of compromise.

 

[bigfield]

This is all part of the left's plan to gender confuse our children. How will boys know they are boys without their birth certificates to refer to?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Abolishing the words male and female is what passes for "common sense" in phands' universe.

Where's the liberal left's fanaticism to abolish the racist, unscientific words "black" and "white"?

Well, I'll be darned. I agree with something Lion IRC says. We have gender on birth certificates because it's valuable information. It's good to know.

 

[RavenSky]

Abolishing the words male and female is what passes for "common sense" in phands' universe.

Where's the liberal left's fanaticism to abolish the racist, unscientific words "black" and "white"?

Well, I'll be darned. I agree with something Lion IRC says. We have gender on birth certificates because it's valuable information. It's good to know.

So you demand to see the birth certificates of every person you meet before you decide how to address them?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Abolishing the words male and female is what passes for "common sense" in phands' universe.

Where's the liberal left's fanaticism to abolish the racist, unscientific words "black" and "white"?

Well, I'll be darned. I agree with something Lion IRC says. We have gender on birth certificates because it's valuable information. It's good to know.

So you demand to see the birth certificates of every person you meet before you decide how to address them?

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/eitheror.html

Try again

 

[Keith&Co.]

Such a law in the U.S. would cripple one of the far left's primary talking points. They could no longer blame everything they consider to be bad on "white males".

No, see, they have already decided that "white males" are to blame, NOW the problem will be that we can't be sure where they are.

 

[phands]

Abolishing the words male and female is what passes for "common sense" in phands' universe.

Where's the liberal left's fanaticism to abolish the racist, unscientific words "black" and "white"?

Well, I'll be darned. I agree with something Lion IRC says. We have gender on birth certificates because it's valuable information. It's good to know.

You shouldn't agree with LIRC, because as per his stultifyingly poor normal, he tries a straw man about different words in a different context.....and fails. At no point did I advocate abolition of any words at all.

I did say that it's common sense to not put a label on someone's birth certificate which they don't get a say in. Especially as the only point of putting a sex label on a BC is to set up and maintain the societal norms that currently implicitly class females as lesser than males.

Male and Female are diffuse areas on a complex plane of overlapping kinds of sexuality and preference, and any person should be free to decide for themselves.
Black and white, however, are polar opposites, with intermediates having their own term...shades of grey, so LIRC is wrong there too. Black also has at least one formal definition in RGB colour tables - it's hexadecimal 0x000000 (All R, G and B values are zero). White is 0xFFFFFF (all R, G and B values are maxed out at 255).
Yawn....LIRC is really bad at this.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I did say that it's common sense to not put a label on someone's birth certificate which they don't get a say in.

Um, I didn't get a say in being born in the first place.
Or my name.
Or blood type.

But there are lots of official labeling systems I don't actually get a say in. I did volunteer for the military, but they would not accept my nickname for the dogtag. And when I put 'atheist' down for religion, they edited it to 'no pref.' Same thing they put for the Wiccan in our company.

It really makes no sense to me to take gender off of a birth certificate. There are some uses for the information.

I would prefer a more adult approach to gender in other applications.

I just expect if I were in North Carolina, where the law says I have to use the bathroom indicated by my birth certificate, they are not going to suddenly become enlightened because my BC lacks that information. No, they'd just say I couldn't use EITHER restroom.

 

[skepticalbip]

... snip ....

But there are lots of official labeling systems I don't actually get a say in. I did volunteer for the military, but they would not accept my nickname for the dogtag. And when I put 'atheist' down for religion, they edited it to 'no pref.' Same thing they put for the Wiccan in our company.
.

Damn, now I feel like I was abused by the military. They edited mine to say "Baptist" on my dog tag.

 

[fast]

Denying one's sex is not the same as denying one's gender.

When a baby is born, the doctor may look down at the genitalia and say "it's a boy," and if the would-be transsexual could speak, she would say "no doc, inside I'm a girl; please address me as she."

At this point, if the doctor buys into that, he should say, "my bad, i'm sorry little miss. I accept that you're a little girl, and I'll respect you as having the gender you feel you have."

However, the story is not over.

The doctor does inform the little girl that "despite being a girl, you are nevertheless in fact a male, not a female." See, the girl can deny the assumed gender the doctor was thinking, but she cannot realistically deny that her sex is male. It doesn't matter what gender you are, if you're clearly a male, that can be clearly established in the vast majority of cases.

 

[Tigers!]

In Australia at least you need a complete birth certificate incl. sex to get a passport. Passports are a Commonwealth responsibility, birth certificates are a state responsibility. Law of unintended consequences begins.

- - - Updated - - -

Denying one's sex is not the same as denying one's gender.

When a baby is born, the doctor may look down at the genitalia and say "it's a boy," and if the would-be transsexual could speak, she would say "no doc, inside I'm a girl; please address me as she."

At this point, if the doctor buys into that, he should say, "my bad, i'm sorry little miss. I accept that you're a little girl, and I'll respect you as having the gender you feel you have."

However, the story is not over.

The doctor does inform the little girl that "despite being a girl, you are nevertheless in fact a male, not a female." See, the girl can deny the assumed gender the doctor was thinking, but she cannot realistically deny that her sex is male. It doesn't matter what gender you are, if you're clearly a male, that can be clearly established in the vast majority of cases.

Don't talk too much sense. It will get you in trouble.

 

[Tigers!]

This is all part of the left's plan to gender confuse our children. How will boys know they are boys without their birth certificates to refer to?

It will become a problem when their parents, teachers, rellies etc. are not allowed to use the terms boy or girl. Girls will suffer from the same problem.

 

[Tigers!]

A question without notice to any mods
Would this thread be better in another fora rathe than this one? I do not see the religious connotation apart from phnads gratuitous note at the start of the OP?

 

[phands]

A question without notice to any mods
Would this thread be better in another fora rathe than this one? I do not see the religious connotation apart from phnads gratuitous note at the start of the OP?

It wasn't gratuitous at all. Virtually ALL bias against the various flavours on the complex plane of sexuality and gender identification come from religious idiots.

 

[RavenSky]

We have gender on birth certificates because it's valuable information.

unsupported claim. Try again