Taylor Swifts court trial

[Horatio Parker]

And see how it sits with his wife when he says, "why are you upset? No big deal."

I don't think he'd say that. I think he'd immediately try to lay me out and call the police because that's what you do when someone sexually assaults either yourself or another person.

According to his OP, he doesn't understand why groping is upsetting.

Was it really that serious to get your ass touched? I'm just saying I would not have reacted that way if I were in her shoes and trying to understand the dynamics of feminism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think he'd say that. I think he'd immediately try to lay me out and call the police because that's what you do when someone sexually assaults either yourself or another person.

According to his OP, he doesn't understand why groping is upsetting.

Was it really that serious to get your ass touched? I'm just saying I would not have reacted that way if I were in her shoes and trying to understand the dynamics of feminism.

The OP is talking out of both sides of its mouth.

It was nasty, sure, but why doesn't she suck it up? I just don't get women.

 

[blastula]

Here: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/entertainment/taylor-swift-trial-court-sketches-trnd/index.html

Apparantly, the reporter felt her ass. And from the article it does look like he really did it. Ill just get this out of the way. It was a nasty thing for him to have done to her. But thats not the point of my OP.

What I am hoping for is some input from some of our distinguished feminists here on this board to help me understand. And perhaps even give me some council on the matter. Because, honest to god if I were a multi million celebrity and this had happened to me (female reporter since I am male) I know I would just shrug this off and go about my normal daily routines again. I would still have my ass in tact since it only got felt and I would still have a life only others would dream about. Perhaps I would go somewhere on my private jet to some balmy pacific island and put down some beer. But I certantly would not waste a second of my time hanging out in court trying to further destroy another person and their career. Even if he/she was a pervert.

Someone please help me to understand the female mind. And if you are going to tell me that everything is different if you are a female in this situation then help me understand why all the other equal rights issues arent different if you are a female.

Wow, blaming the victim twice over - for being such a bitch for complaining about an upskirt butt grab, and then again for fighting back after being sued. What is your deal? She's in the wrong unless she paid the guy whatever he wanted?

 

[RVonse]

At a professional occassion,this guy allegedly stuck his hand up her dress and grabbed Swift's butt. You don't have to be a feminist to see that is totally unprofessional and inappropriate. The fact his employer canned his ass is not Taylor Swift's fault (unless she lied about it).

What I don't understand is how anyone could have a problem with Taylor Swift's actions.

Ditto! And WTF would this have to do with "feminism", as I really don't consider myself one. If some asshole did this to my wife, I'd have a hard time not punching him in the face.

RVonse, do you have a wife or a daughter? If so, what would your reaction be if some creep reached up a dress grabber either their asses?

Thats a fair comment, and for the moment will not argue with your example either. So yes, it does appear much worse for a man to touch a woman than vice versa. So doesnt that mean that men and women really are different? And that perhaps not all things can be made eqaul between men and women? Just asking.

 

[RVonse]

Here: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/entertainment/taylor-swift-trial-court-sketches-trnd/index.html

Apparantly, the reporter felt her ass. And from the article it does look like he really did it. Ill just get this out of the way. It was a nasty thing for him to have done to her. But thats not the point of my OP.

What I am hoping for is some input from some of our distinguished feminists here on this board to help me understand. And perhaps even give me some council on the matter. Because, honest to god if I were a multi million celebrity and this had happened to me (female reporter since I am male) I know I would just shrug this off and go about my normal daily routines again. I would still have my ass in tact since it only got felt and I would still have a life only others would dream about. Perhaps I would go somewhere on my private jet to some balmy pacific island and put down some beer. But I certantly would not waste a second of my time hanging out in court trying to further destroy another person and their career. Even if he/she was a pervert.

Someone please help me to understand the female mind. And if you are going to tell me that everything is different if you are a female in this situation then help me understand why all the other equal rights issues arent different if you are a female.

Wow, blaming the victim twice over - for being such a bitch for complaining about an upskirt butt grab, and then again for fighting back after being sued. What is your deal? She's in the wrong unless she paid the guy whatever he wanted?

Im not trying to blame, Im trying to understand. Again, I would have just dropped this but she didn't. Wouldnt have been worth my time to bother with this guy.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I thought the case was: He's suing her for defamation.

That changes absolutely nothing with regards to my OP. His suit for defamation could not have materialized if Taylor had not succeeding to having him fired in the first place.

But I do stand corrected and thank you for pointing out that detail.

First, there is no probability or uncertainty in any of this. There's a picture of it with his hand on her and he lied saying he touched her ribcage only which is the source of his defamation suit. He is suing because he is lying and wants money from someone rich, not because he's innocent.*

Second, Taylor Swift did not have him fired. It disturbed her so she told her mother about it. Her mother told a couple of more people. Those couple of more people decided that the radio DJ (not reporter) violated code of conduct and decided to fire him. Neither Taylor Swift nor her mother told anyone to fire anyone.

Third, Taylor Swift is counter-suing him for $1. The man is an idiot who is destroying himself even more and she is taking the high road.

Fourth, with Trump and the man-culture of inappropriately grabbing female celebrities on the rise, it is important to stop these inappropriate touchings. She SHOULD have destroyed him by punching him in the face when he touched her, then torched his car, and sued his children for millions. She was nice instead.

*

 

[RVonse]

Here: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/entertainment/taylor-swift-trial-court-sketches-trnd/index.html

Apparantly, the reporter felt her ass. And from the article it does look like he really did it. Ill just get this out of the way. It was a nasty thing for him to have done to her. But thats not the point of my OP.

What I am hoping for is some input from some of our distinguished feminists here on this board to help me understand. And perhaps even give me some council on the matter. Because, honest to god if I were a multi million celebrity and this had happened to me (female reporter since I am male) I know I would just shrug this off and go about my normal daily routines again. I would still have my ass in tact since it only got felt and I would still have a life only others would dream about. Perhaps I would go somewhere on my private jet to some balmy pacific island and put down some beer. But I certantly would not waste a second of my time hanging out in court trying to further destroy another person and their career. Even if he/she was a pervert.

Someone please help me to understand the female mind. And if you are going to tell me that everything is different if you are a female in this situation then help me understand why all the other equal rights issues arent different if you are a female.

Wow, blaming the victim twice over - for being such a bitch for complaining about an upskirt butt grab, and then again for fighting back after being sued. What is your deal? She's in the wrong unless she paid the guy whatever he wanted?

Ive had all kinds of dissrespectable things done to me my whole life. Usually happens on the freeway everytime I drive to work, someone will be an idiot and cut me off. I usually just shrug it off and forget about it without taking to the next level. Especially since the rest of my life is going great for me anyway. Well, not as good as Taylor Swift's life but its still pretty good and not worth the bother of a road rage dispute.

 

[Ford]

Wow, blaming the victim twice over - for being such a bitch for complaining about an upskirt butt grab, and then again for fighting back after being sued. What is your deal? She's in the wrong unless she paid the guy whatever he wanted?

Im not trying to blame, Im trying to understand. Again, I would have just dropped this but she didn't. Wouldnt have been worth my time to bother with this guy.

(Emphasis added) She did drop it. After the grab-assery happened, he was kicked out of the event and station management was notified. They fired him three days later. More than two years after his termination, Mueller filed suit. Not against his former employer, but against Swift.

She responded to his suit by filing one of her own (seeking a whopping $1 in damages) and he subsequently filed a slander claim.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Ive had all kinds of dissrespectable things done to me my whole life. Usually happens on the freeway everytime I drive to work, someone will be an idiot and cut me off. I usually just shrug it off and forget about it without taking to the next level. Especially since the rest of my life is going great for me anyway. Well, not as good as Taylor Swift's life but its still pretty good and not worth the bother of a road rage dispute.

Let's say one of those people who cut you off sues you for $20,000. Afterward, some guy on the Internet accuses you of taking the low road and being a bitch. Would that be fair?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

RVonse, also, I gotta ask you exactly where you would draw line in telling someone you trust? Let's say the radio DJ touched your bum with his giant hand during a photo and it made you uncomfortable. You'd tell no one at all?

Okay, what about if one of his fingers went into your rectum? Would you still say nothing?

What about if he pushed you down on your knees and bukake? You wouldn't say anything at all to anybody?

 

[RavenSky]

Here: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/10/entertainment/taylor-swift-trial-court-sketches-trnd/index.html

Apparantly, the reporter felt her ass. And from the article it does look like he really did it. Ill just get this out of the way. It was a nasty thing for him to have done to her. But thats not the point of my OP.

What I am hoping for is some input from some of our distinguished feminists here on this board to help me understand. And perhaps even give me some council on the matter. Because, honest to god if I were a multi million celebrity and this had happened to me (female reporter since I am male) I know I would just shrug this off and go about my normal daily routines again. I would still have my ass in tact since it only got felt and I would still have a life only others would dream about. Perhaps I would go somewhere on my private jet to some balmy pacific island and put down some beer. But I certantly would not waste a second of my time hanging out in court trying to further destroy another person and their career. Even if he/she was a pervert.

First of all, Taylor Swift actually DID "just shrug this off and go about [her] normal daily routines again". She did not make a scene at the time.. She did not call the police and push for criminal prosecution (and she could have). She did not initially sue him either. All she (or someone in her employ) did was report his behavior to his employer with the request that he no longer be allowed to attend her events.

That is an exceptionally low key, measured response; and far better than he deserved.

It was his employer who decided to fire him. (I would be willing to bet that this was not the first report about this sort of behavior from him, either. )

Someone please help me to understand the female mind...

He sexually molested her so she did not want him at her future events. Why is that so difficult to understand?

What boggles MY mind is that the fucking asshole molester apparently took her initial (and typical) lack of action in response to his assault, and figured he would extort some money out of her. He probably assumed that she would not want the publicity associated with a full civil court proceeding, and that she would settle just to make him go away.

She didn't, and I am so very glad she counter-sued the son-of-a-bitch. He thought his "reputation" suffered before? He will now and forever be the molester who tried to sue Taylor Swift. He will never live it down now, and he brought it entirely upon himself. Taylor Swift did not and is not "further destroy[ing} another person and their career". HE is doing that to himself, and he TRIED to do that to her by suing her. HE tried to victimize her a second time by defaming her (calling her a liar).

And while it was not Taylor Swift's intent... the dumb-shit molester forced the role on her with his extortion attempt... she is now every woman who has ever been groped by a pervert. Her refusal to accept what he did to her, her refusal to allow him to lie about it or minimize it, makes a very public statement that sexually molesting someone is NEVER ok and we - the victims - do NOT have to be shamed into "just shrug[ging] this off and go[ing] about [their] normal daily routines again.

 

[RavenSky]

Us males cannot mansplain to women how a woman should feel. The question should be to women how they react.

Some will ignore it but for a celebrity a lawsuit like this can act as a deterrent. Some may give the offender a smack. Others may go to court. It's a female's choice not ours to make.

At a professional occassion,this guy allegedly stuck his hand up her dress and grabbed Swift's butt. You don't have to be a feminist to see that is totally unprofessional and inappropriate. The fact his employer canned his ass is not Taylor Swift's fault (unless she lied about it).

What I don't understand is how anyone could have a problem with Taylor Swift's actions.

Ah, something I can comment on with a small amount of authority.

Quick background, I've met/interviewed/hung out with quite a large number of country music artists. I have spoken to Taylor Swift (though it was a decade ago) and a longtime friend is the head of promotion at her label. I've hung out backstage, interviewed many, many artists, been invited on tour buses and to private performances.

In these situations (a meet and greet is what this one is called) the artist is almost always on their best behavior. They're "on the clock" as it were, and country artists in particular (Taylor was country before she crossed over to pop) are always cordial to radio people, because the people they meet decide whether or not their songs get played. Conversely, radio people are expected to be on their best behavior as well. Relationships with label and artist management are critical, and years of trust and goodwill can be ruined with one stupid remark or action.

My understanding of the situation is that this guy (he was a morning show host, not a reporter) grabbed her during the above photo, was subsequently removed from the event, and Swift's team reported the incident to station management. They investigated it internally, and he was subsequently fired. His allegation (and the reason for his suit) is that Taylor Swift personally got him fired. I know from my experience that she can be impulsive and likes to do things her own way, but demanding this guy be fired seems wholly out of character...not just for her but for artists in general.

With a few exceptions - and I know this from first hand experience - the artists don't remember you. Oh, they will smile and nod and say they do, but they don't. So the idea that she would reach out to the station management and say "I want David Mueller fired" is unlikely. To her he was just some guy who posed for a picture. The label also would be very unlikely to attempt such a thing, as they tend to stay out of internal station politics (again, I know people at the label). They would certainly express displeasure, probably tell the station that the guy is no longer welcome at their meet and greets, but they still have to have a relationship with that station.

Station management fired the guy, and if he did grab her ass, or a client's ass, or a listener's ass, or a co-worker's ass, his ass should have been canned. This has nothing to do with feminism.

Finally, he's asking for $3 million in lost wages? Please. Maybe 20 years ago a morning host in Denver could have pulled that kind of money over a 5 year contract, but nowadays nobody in a large market is pulling 7 figures to do mornings on a country station.

First, there is no probability or uncertainty in any of this. There's a picture of it with his hand on her and he lied saying he touched her ribcage only which is the source of his defamation suit. He is suing because he is lying and wants money from someone rich, not because he's innocent.*

Second, Taylor Swift did not have him fired. It disturbed her so she told her mother about it. Her mother told a couple of more people. Those couple of more people decided that the radio DJ (not reporter) violated code of conduct and decided to fire him. Neither Taylor Swift nor her mother told anyone to fire anyone.

Third, Taylor Swift is counter-suing him for $1. The man is an idiot who is destroying himself even more and she is taking the high road.

Fourth, with Trump and the man-culture of inappropriately grabbing female celebrities on the rise, it is important to stop these inappropriate touchings. She SHOULD have destroyed him by punching him in the face when he touched her, then torched his car, and sued his children for millions. She was nice instead.

A lot of great responses in this thread!

 

[RavenSky]

Ive had all kinds of dissrespectable things done to me my whole life. Usually happens on the freeway everytime I drive to work, someone will be an idiot and cut me off. I usually just shrug it off and forget about it without taking to the next level. Especially since the rest of my life is going great for me anyway. Well, not as good as Taylor Swift's life but its still pretty good and not worth the bother of a road rage dispute.

What he did was quite a bit worse that someone cutting you off in traffic. It was a form of sexual assault. Despite that fact, however, she did what most women assaulted in this manner do... shrugged it off... exactly as you insist she should have done. He is the one who refused to let it drop.

What would you do if one of those traffic assholes who cut you off then also turned around and sued you? Would you just pay the 3 million dollars?

 

[ZiprHead]

Ditto! And WTF would this have to do with "feminism", as I really don't consider myself one. If some asshole did this to my wife, I'd have a hard time not punching him in the face.

RVonse, do you have a wife or a daughter? If so, what would your reaction be if some creep reached up a dress grabber either their asses?

Thats a fair comment, and for the moment will not argue with your example either. So yes, it does appear much worse for a man to touch a woman than vice versa. So doesnt that mean that men and women really are different? And that perhaps not all things can be made eqaul between men and women? Just asking.

Really? I've seen women get into bar fights just because one thought another was checking out their man.

 

[ZiprHead]

First of all, Taylor Swift actually DID "just shrug this off and go about [her] normal daily routines again". She did not make a scene at the time.. She did not call the police and push for criminal prosecution (and she could have). She did not initially sue him either. All she (or someone in her employ) did was report his behavior to his employer with the request that he no longer be allowed to attend her events.

That is an exceptionally low key, measured response; and far better than he deserved.

It was his employer who decided to fire him. (I would be willing to bet that this was not the first report about this sort of behavior from him, either. )

If that sort of thing is in his personnel file, it will surely come out at trial. He may be screwing himself even more.

 

[Ford]

And the suit against Swift has been tossed:

https://www.allaccess.com/net-news/archive/story/168611/judge-throws-out-david-mueller-s-case-against-tayl?ref=mail_bulletin

 

[J842P]

This guy is an idiot asshole and Swift is in the right here.

She is right and I get that part.

But what the hell is she doing? Was it really that serious to get your ass touched? I'm just saying I would not have reacted that way if I were in her shoes and trying to understand the dynamics of feminism.

I don't identify as a feminist, but it seems understandable.

Have you considered that maybe you're just weird?

 

[J842P]

Tbh, you sound like you're arguing just to argue dude.

Bingo.

 

[RavenSky]

when asked by MUELLER's lawyer why she did not respond to MUELLER's actions, and TODAY (8/11), why he did not immediately intervene in the moment. SWIFT wanted to finish the meet-and-greet and visit with her fans, said DENT.

Typical...

If she had immediately taken action, she would have been accused of "blowing it out of proportion" or "creating a scene". But by not taking immediate action, by doing what RVonse says she should have done (nothing), the molester's attorney attempts to use that against her.

Why are you making such a big deal out of it?... Why didn't you fight back harder?

 

[J842P]

Ditto! And WTF would this have to do with "feminism", as I really don't consider myself one. If some asshole did this to my wife, I'd have a hard time not punching him in the face.

RVonse, do you have a wife or a daughter? If so, what would your reaction be if some creep reached up a dress grabber either their asses?

I think his point is that if some woman groped him he would not sue her.

Swift only countersued once the guy had the temerity to sue her first.