The Case for Biden

[Koyaanisqatsi]

While I fear he's become a little too feeble of late, the case for Biden is simple and direct: aside from his years of service, look at the extent Trump has already gone to in order to destroy him. That is how much he fears going against Biden. And it's not just an idle fear; the extent to which Trump has gone to in order to destroy Biden is mirrored in the polls that show Biden beating trump by double digits.

And look now how, even with the debunked story being hammered by Trump, Biden's numbers have dropped considerably among Democrats and yet no equal attack on Warren or Sanders, which is a strong indication that Trump's people not only have no fear of either, they want to go against either.

Remember, Trump cheats. So it's not about who he thinks he can beat in a fair fight; it's about who his "think tank" is telling him he has the best chances of beating (and/or who they are telling him he can't beat) in regard to attacking personal weaknesses and other aspects they can exploit in order to either suppress votes or swing them. That means they're once again targeting Dem minorities primarily to suppress their votes and white Indie males to swing Trump.

So, lot's of sexism and "Pocahontas" POTUS for Warren and if Sanders were to pull a miracle out of his ass and somehow win the nomination, lot's of New York Commie Landlord Jew out to steal your money and the like and there goes middle America. Biden, otoh, is bulletproof in those regards. His achilles heel has been revealed way before the real contest gets going, so if he can just manage to keep back whatever early onset dementia he seems to be fighting, he would wipe the floor with Trump and Trump knows this (hence the extreme measures he's being going to).

The question then becomes, who does Biden pick as VP? Does he try for Warren or go dark horse? I would argue dark horse, but my fear is he'll drop out due to whatever medical condition seems to be creeping up on him.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The argument? "Name recognition". A running mate? Warren?! You need youth.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

If Biden's big plus is that he can beat Donald Trump... That's not very inspiring. And others can likely beat Trump too (Warren maybe not). And history has shown that Democrats win when pushing for something rather than against something.

 

[Elixir]

If Biden's big plus is that he can beat Donald Trump... That's not very inspiring. And others can likely beat Trump too (Warren maybe not). And history has shown that Democrats win when pushing for something rather than against something.

If the talking heads' interpretation of the fleeing behavior exhibited by Republicans in the House is correct, Freddie Kruger could beat him.
But I'm not sure that some aren't retiring while thinking Trump will win again and they don't want any part of it.

 

[Rhea]

I dunno. I thought the “achilles heel already fought off” argument was valid for Clinton. I was wrong. So i see all of the candidates as equally exposed to GOP shenanigans.

 

[KeepTalking]

I won't be voting for Biden in the primary. The case against Biden for me is I don't think it is a great idea to replace our current president, who is suffering from a declining mental state, with a candidate who is suffering from a declining mental state. At this point, I would hope that just about anyone could beat the thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt Trump, so I am going to vote for the candidate who best represents my values. If I am wrong about that and Trump gets re-elected just because we didn't elect the "perfect" candidate (who is obviously losing his mind as well), fuck it, we are done, no need to keep on pretending that our country is a functioning democracy.

 

[Gun Nut]

I won't be voting for Biden in the primary. The case against Biden for me is I don't think it is a great idea to replace our current president, who is suffering from a declining mental state, with a candidate who is suffering from a declining mental state. At this point, I would hope that just about anyone could beat the thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt Trump, so I am going to vote for the candidate who best represents my values. If I am wrong about that and Trump gets re-elected just because we didn't elect the "perfect" candidate (who is obviously losing his mind as well), fuck it, we are done, no need to keep on pretending that our country is a functioning democracy.

You don't see the difference between a wild psychopathic serial killer and a gentle old man that is slow at recalling, as any different from one another? Both have an 'illness'.... mental issues.. on both sides, is it?

 

[Rhea]

I won't be voting for Biden in the primary. The case against Biden for me is I don't think it is a great idea to replace our current president, who is suffering from a declining mental state, with a candidate who is suffering from a declining mental state. At this point, I would hope that just about anyone could beat the thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt Trump, so I am going to vote for the candidate who best represents my values. If I am wrong about that and Trump gets re-elected just because we didn't elect the "perfect" candidate (who is obviously losing his mind as well), fuck it, we are done, no need to keep on pretending that our country is a functioning democracy.

You don't see the difference between a wild psychopathic serial killer and a gentle old man that is slow at recalling, as any different from one another? Both have an 'illness'.... mental issues.. on both sides, is it?

I don’t think that’s what he said at all. He was talking about why he wasn’t going to vote for Biden in the primary, and hoping that Biden not winning the primary (due to votes like his) was not something that would keep Biden supporters home, resulting in a Trump win.

All of which is fairly reasonable, isn’t it?

 

[Elixir]

If I am wrong about that and Trump gets re-elected just because we didn't elect the "perfect" candidate (who is obviously losing his mind as well), fuck it, we are done, no need to keep on pretending that our country is a functioning democracy.

Agreed. Now all I have to do is figure out which of the presumably viable candidates is most likely to not only represent, but actualize my values. It bothers me that most of the candidates who most closely represent the ideals I formed as a 17 year old are over 70.

 

[barbos]

It bothers me that most of the candidates who most closely represent the ideals I formed as a 17 year old are over 70.

That does not compute, you are clearly around 60 years old, which means you could not have possibly heard about Putin at 17.

 

[Derec]

So, lot's

I am from PETA - People for Ethical Treatment of Apostrophes to tell you to stop this wanton apostrophe abuse!

of sexism

What sexism? The real problem is this using of "sexism" as a cudgel. Like Warren claiming that Biden dare criticize her is "sexist" or Klobuchar saying that Buttigieg would not have the support he has now if he was a woman.

and "Pocahontas"

Princess Lizzie of the Wannabe Tribe kind of walked into that one.

The question then becomes, who does Biden pick as VP? Does he try for Warren or go dark horse?

Warren would be a stupid choice. Another septuagenarian? Not happening.

I would argue dark horse,

Maybe it's going to be one of the people who are running. Kamala or Buttigieg perhaps. A true dark horse would be somebody out of the left field. Georgia's Stacey Abrams was bandied about, but she would be a poor choice in my opinion as she is only a state legislator.

but my fear is he'll drop out due to whatever medical condition seems to be creeping up on him.

That's why Bloomberg is thinking of running, even though he is 8 months older than Biden. Oy vey!

 

[Gun Nut]

I won't be voting for Biden in the primary. The case against Biden for me is I don't think it is a great idea to replace our current president, who is suffering from a declining mental state, with a candidate who is suffering from a declining mental state. At this point, I would hope that just about anyone could beat the thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt Trump, so I am going to vote for the candidate who best represents my values. If I am wrong about that and Trump gets re-elected just because we didn't elect the "perfect" candidate (who is obviously losing his mind as well), fuck it, we are done, no need to keep on pretending that our country is a functioning democracy.

You don't see the difference between a wild psychopathic serial killer and a gentle old man that is slow at recalling, as any different from one another? Both have an 'illness'.... mental issues.. on both sides, is it?

I don’t think that’s what he said at all. He was talking about why he wasn’t going to vote for Biden in the primary, and hoping that Biden not winning the primary (due to votes like his) was not something that would keep Biden supporters home, resulting in a Trump win.

All of which is fairly reasonable, isn’t it?

Well, I think what I said was fair... I bolded the responsive bit and copied here:

I don't think it is a great idea to replace our current president, who is suffering from a declining mental state, with a candidate who is suffering from a declining mental state.

Candidate A is "suffering from a declining mental state
Candidate B is "suffering from a declining mental state

Therefore

Candidate A = Candidate B

They are the same, with respect to their "mental state".

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

If Biden's big plus is that he can beat Donald Trump

The "big plus" is that Trump has gone to impeachable lengths to destroy him, even so far as to coerce foreign nations to manufacture fake evidence against him. Which means Trump fears going against him the most, which in turn means that Trump's team is convinced he would lose to Biden. That makes Biden our best asset to defeat Trump in a way that goes far beyond mere possibility.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I dunno. I thought the “achilles heel already fought off” argument was valid for Clinton. I was wrong.

Actually, you weren't. She won the popular vote be millions in a record setting election, in spite of all of the decades of lies and attacks and unnecessarily divisive primary civil war and the cheating and the bots and the Russian warfare, etc.

The only reason Trump is president is because of that cheating, not because of merit.

So i see all of the candidates as equally exposed to GOP shenanigans.

It's not about our candidates; it's about who they fear the most as measured by the extent they are willing to go to in order to defeat them.

Who does the other team NOT want to go against? That is the team you push to go against them.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I would hope that just about anyone could beat the thoroughly corrupt and morally bankrupt Trump, so I am going to vote for the candidate who best represents my values.

Which automatically translates into a vote that will benefit Trump and no one else.

no need to keep on pretending that our country is a functioning democracy.

It never has been. It is a representative republic.. Don't let your ignorance fuck everyone further by casting a vote that only benefits Trump. How does that help the situation?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

All of which is fairly reasonable, isn’t it?

When facing a monster coming to destroy your town and kill your people, do you "vote" for the weakest among you to face them because you like their hat--or something equally superfluous to the situation--or do you "vote" for the strongest among you to defeat the monster?

 

[Rhea]

All of which is fairly reasonable, isn’t it?

When facing a monster coming to destroy your town and kill your people, do you "vote" for the weakest among you to face them because you like their hat--or something equally superfluous to the situation--or do you "vote" for the strongest among you to defeat the monster?

The Primary is a love letter, the General is a chess move.

 

[ZiprHead]

All of which is fairly reasonable, isn’t it?

When facing a monster coming to destroy your town and kill your people, do you "vote" for the weakest among you to face them because you like their hat--or something equally superfluous to the situation--or do you "vote" for the strongest among you to defeat the monster?

The Primary is a love letter, the General is a chess move.

You fall in love in the primary, you fall in line in the election. - Randi Rhodes

 

[southernhybrid]

I think if Biden were to become the nominee and he chose Stacey Abrams as his running mate, he would probably win. Most of my older black friends already plan on voting for Biden in the primaries, but I doubt most younger black people are excited about him. Stacey is only 45 and she is both charismatic and brilliant. When she ran for governor of Georgia, I attended one of her rallies. There were plenty of older white men in attendance, something I didn't expect. She is extremely pragmatic, because while being progressive in spirit, she's smart enough to know that you must work with others to accomplish things. When she was the minority leader in the Georgia house, she had the respect of people on both sides of the aisl, or at least both progressive and moderates. Of course, the Republicans criticized her when she ran for governor because she was seen as a threat. I read a lot of her policy proposals when she ran for governor. I'm not exaggerating when I say that she is the most intelligent, thoughtful politician I've ever seen. Unfortunately, we don't get to vote for the VP candidate.

The most important and reliable Democratic voters are black women. Stacey would certain energize that base, unlike Clinton. There were a lot of black voters who stayed home in the last presidential election, but a Biden/Abrams combo would change that. I don't think that Stacey is ready to run for president, but she is certainly ready to be groomed for a presidential run. I have no doubt that if Biden were elected, he'd listen to her and his advisors. They would probably be able to accomplish a lot because they are both trusted by a large percentage of Americans. And, even if Stacey didn't run with Biden, I think he's smart enough to choose a much younger person of color to be his VP candidate.

I'm not very impressed with any of the candidates, to be perfectly honest, but I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee ends up being. I agree that Biden is somewhat past his prime. I don't agree that he's senile or failing. He's always been a man who misspeaks, which I tend to think is due to his problem as a young person with severe stuttering. Unlike our current idiot, Biden has a sense of humor and can laugh at himself when he misspeaks. I don't think he'd do anything harmful to the country and with the right VP and advisors, he could do a lot of good. He's respected by our foreign allies and I think they would be relieved to have someone like him after dealing with Trump.

I don't see Bloomberg as having a chance. I'm not even sure he's really going to enter the race. He's not well liked by black voters due to the "stop and frisk" policy, started un his forerunner Rudy ( yuck ) but expanded under him. He's been a Dem and a Repub and an independent over the years. He's socially liberal but way too fiscally conservative for most Democrats. Maybe he could beat Trump but I'm not convinced of that and I seriously doubt he would become the nominee.

Warren and Sanders are both considered too far left for the middle and southern parts of the country. I find it odd that most of Bernie's supporters are younger voters, when you consider his age and health. I've said this before, but those of us old enough to have voted for George McGovern in 1972, don't want to watch someone who is very progressive lose again. Sanders is the only candidate that I would have a very hard time voting for, but he doesn't have a chance of winning in Georgia, so it's mute. I like Warren, but I have no doubt, despite what Derec says, that sexism is part of the reason why she would have a hard time winning a national election. It would also be difficult for her to win enough swing states. So both her gender and her unrealistic policies would be big obstacles for her.

Mayor Pete is simply too young and inexperienced and I actually agree with Derec when he said that short men don't usually win presidential elections int he US. He's 5'8". That's as stupid as gender discrimination, but it's a real thing. Plus, he seems phony to me, and his record in Indiana leaves a lot of black voters unlikely to vote for him in the primaries. I just don't see him as presidential. I don't see him having much chance of winning enough swing states either. Maybe one day, he'll be ready to take on a bigger role.

Regardless of what I think, the other unmentioned candidates aren't gaining any steam and are unlikely to at this point. I wish they'd back out soon. And, it's rather odd, or disappointing that so many Democrats aren't sure of who they want to run, or have changed their minds several times. One of my friends has gone from Biden to Booker to Warren. I need to ask her if she's changed her mind again.

And, I don't care if you disagree with me. I'm just stating my opinion. Ok non boomers.

 

[PyramidHead]

The monster analogy is specious in a number of ways.

For one thing, parsing the situation like that assumes a fixed state of affairs regarding who is "strongest among you", and suggests that such a person deserves our support due to having that quality. But in the context we're trying to talk about here, support for a candidate is what makes that candidate strong. It's not a horse race, in other words, because in a horse race betting on a horse doesn't make it more likely to win.

More to the point, however, is that the entire framework unquestioningly portrays this election as a battle against one "monster". If you disagree that the monster threatening our town is Trump, the analogy doesn't work anymore. For example, if the actual monster that actually threatens us is climate change, or if the "town" in question is not our sector of white middle class America but the majority of the world, then someone who is strong against the Trump monster but weak against the bigger monsters is just delaying our fate for a while.

Combining these two points together, the case for Biden only seems viable if we (1) remove ourselves from the political process entirely and become spectators to what others believe, rather than participants in shaping what they believe; and (2) forego any political ambitions beyond the horizon of defeating Trump and, at best, restoring conditions to what they were immediately before his election.

I don't see those as viable political strategies in any scenario, never mind an election. Especially since in this case, Biden is not even as strong against Trump as the last person who failed to defeat him.