The Case for Biden

[Elixir]

This is the brain rot that has infected American "resist" Democrats. George W. Bush, a mass murderer whose administration set into motion the endless wars and occupations in the Middle East, claiming hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, is somehow better than Trump simply because Trump made the unforgivable mistake of cheating during an election. W is so much worse than Trump in nearly every tangible way, and it's not even close, and the only way to deny it is to broadcast to everyone that personality and following rules matter more to you than not committing genocidal war crimes.

Yup. Exactly. W's reputational rehabilitation in culture at large is one of the greatest tragedies of the Trump administration.

I don't disagree that W was a monster*. I do disagree that he ever posed a greater a threat to this country and its character than Trump does at present.

* I resented the Bush family from the start, knowing about Sr's involvement with Omega Protein, a Company that ruthlessly stripped the ocean of menhaden. Menhaden are a schooling minnow that used to cloud the waters of Florida's inland waterways and travel in great shoals along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts. Predator and scavenger fish followed. In my lifetime, those waters have changed beyond recognition and not for the better.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is the brain rot that has infected American "resist" Democrats. George W. Bush, a mass murderer whose administration set into motion the endless wars and occupations in the Middle East, claiming hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, is somehow better than Trump simply because Trump made the unforgivable mistake of cheating during an election. W is so much worse than Trump in nearly every tangible way, and it's not even close, and the only way to deny it is to broadcast to everyone that personality and following rules matter more to you than not committing genocidal war crimes.

Yup. Exactly. W's reputational rehabilitation in culture at large is one of the greatest tragedies of the Trump administration.

I don't disagree that W was a monster*. I do disagree that he ever posed a greater a threat to this country and its character than Trump does at present.

* I resented the Bush family from the start, knowing about Sr's involvement with Omega Protein, a Company that ruthlessly stripped the ocean of menhaden. Menhaden are a schooling minnow that used to cloud the waters of Florida's inland waterways and travel in great shoals along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts. Predator and scavenger fish followed. In my lifetime, those waters have changed beyond recognition and not for the better.

Agreed. And it's not even close. We've never had such an unpredictable and volatile President with weapons of mass destruction at his disposal. Trump is probably drugged up half the time and could be compromised due to his business dealings. Trump is our most dangerous president, and it's not even close...

 

[PyramidHead]

This is the brain rot that has infected American "resist" Democrats. George W. Bush, a mass murderer whose administration set into motion the endless wars and occupations in the Middle East, claiming hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, is somehow better than Trump simply because Trump made the unforgivable mistake of cheating during an election. W is so much worse than Trump in nearly every tangible way, and it's not even close, and the only way to deny it is to broadcast to everyone that personality and following rules matter more to you than not committing genocidal war crimes.

Yup. Exactly. W's reputational rehabilitation in culture at large is one of the greatest tragedies of the Trump administration.

I don't disagree that W was a monster*. I do disagree that he ever posed a greater a threat to this country and its character than Trump does at present.

Thus proving my point. If this country and its "character" matter more to you than the actual lives lost, people tortured, and wars that continue to rage on due to Bush's administration, you are showing that reputation and dignity are more important to you than human beings unfortunate enough to be born elsewhere in the world.

 

[Elixir]

I don't disagree that W was a monster*. I do disagree that he ever posed a greater a threat to this country and its character than Trump does at present.

Thus proving my point. If this country and its "character" matter more to you than the actual lives lost...

If that proves your point, your point is woefully short-sighted.
Over the long run, the lack of national character already wrought by trump will cost more lives than anything Bush did.
And maybe over the short run - don't offer to hold trump's beer, please.

 

[PyramidHead]

I don't disagree that W was a monster*. I do disagree that he ever posed a greater a threat to this country and its character than Trump does at present.

Thus proving my point. If this country and its "character" matter more to you than the actual lives lost...

If that proves your point, your point is woefully short-sighted.
Over the long run, the lack of national character already wrought by trump will cost more lives than anything Bush did.
And maybe over the short run - don't offer to hold trump's beer, please.

The thousands of infants born with birth defects from the depleted uranium used in the shelling of Fallujah in 2004 will appreciate your concern for national character, I'm sure

 

[Elixir]

If that proves your point, your point is woefully short-sighted.
Over the long run, the lack of national character already wrought by trump will cost more lives than anything Bush did.
And maybe over the short run - don't offer to hold trump's beer, please.

The thousands of infants born with birth defects from the depleted uranium used in the shelling of Fallujah in 2004 will appreciate your concern for national character, I'm sure

You might consider admitting to our inability to quantify the actual damage wrought by either monster with high confidence.
One thing for sure is that we have yet to see the full extent of damage done by Trump, and probably that done by Bush.
I suspect that you don't really know as much as there is to know about the effects of depleted uranium, for one thing. I sincerely doubt that thousands of babies have ingested DU-tipped shells. DU's (U-238) radiation is relatively weak (half-life of almost 4.5 billion years) does not penetrate tissues very well (it needs to be ingested or inhaled to have significant effect), and its carcinogenic properties are still unclear. But it does make a great scarecrow, so you can probably win a lot of emotional arguments with it.

 

[PyramidHead]

If that proves your point, your point is woefully short-sighted.
Over the long run, the lack of national character already wrought by trump will cost more lives than anything Bush did.
And maybe over the short run - don't offer to hold trump's beer, please.

The thousands of infants born with birth defects from the depleted uranium used in the shelling of Fallujah in 2004 will appreciate your concern for national character, I'm sure

You might consider admitting to our inability to quantify the actual damage wrought by either monster with high confidence.
One thing for sure is that we have yet to see the full extent of damage done by Trump, and probably that done by Bush.
I suspect that you don't really know as much as there is to know about the effects of depleted uranium, for one thing. I sincerely doubt that thousands of babies have ingested DU-tipped shells. DU's (U-238) radiation is relatively weak (half-life of almost 4.5 billion years) does not penetrate tissues very well (it needs to be ingested or inhaled to have significant effect), and its carcinogenic properties are still unclear. But it does make a great scarecrow, so you can probably win a lot of emotional arguments with it.

Fallujah has the highest rate of birth defects in the world, higher than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that's just one of the many atrocities committed under Bush's regime. I haven't even brought up the fact that his administration's incompetence or ignorance left us vulnerable to the most deadly terrorist attack in American history. There is simply nothing that approaches the scale of the deaths, nation-building invasions, establishment of surveillance, normalization of torture, and religious fundamentalist entrenchment in government that all occurred during the W years as a result of his policies. But you know what, he handed Michelle Obama a piece of candy once, so I guess he's an okay guy you can have a beer with, unlike DrUmPf

 

[PyramidHead]

Back on topic: fuck Joe Biden

Former Vice President Joe Biden defended his reasoning to not legalize marijuana on a federal level if elected president, saying there is not “enough evidence” as to “whether or not it is a gateway drug.”

Speaking at a town hall in Las Vegas on Saturday, the 2020 Democratic presidential candidate said whether the U.S. should legalize cannabis on a federal level is still up for debate as far as he is concerned.

This man is a R E P U B L I C A N

 

[funinspace]

Third time is the charm?

While I fear he's become a little too feeble of late, the case for Biden is simple and direct: aside from his years of service, look at the extent Trump has already gone to in order to destroy him. That is how much he fears going against Biden. And it's not just an idle fear; the extent to which Trump has gone to in order to destroy Biden is mirrored in the polls that show Biden beating trump by double digits.

A case against Biden...before he was fairly aged (and not like a fine wine):

https://checkyourfact.com/2019/05/01/fact-check-joe-biden-president-3-times/

In the 1988 election cycle, Biden did make a short-lived bid for the Democratic nomination, but withdrew after he was accused of plagiarism. He won two delegates, or 0.05 percent of the vote, at the Democratic convention, as the meme correctly states.

Biden ran again in 2008, drawing early criticism after he called then-candidate Barack Obama “the first sort of mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.” He dropped out in January 2008 after he placed fifth in the Iowa caucuses, and during the 2008 convention, he received zero delegate votes.

 

[Elixir]

You might consider admitting to our inability to quantify the actual damage wrought by either monster with high confidence.
One thing for sure is that we have yet to see the full extent of damage done by Trump, and probably that done by Bush.
I suspect that you don't really know as much as there is to know about the effects of depleted uranium, for one thing. I sincerely doubt that thousands of babies have ingested DU-tipped shells. DU's (U-238) radiation is relatively weak (half-life of almost 4.5 billion years) does not penetrate tissues very well (it needs to be ingested or inhaled to have significant effect), and its carcinogenic properties are still unclear. But it does make a great scarecrow, so you can probably win a lot of emotional arguments with it.

Fallujah has the highest rate of birth defects in the world, higher than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that's just one of the many atrocities committed under Bush's regime.

Correlation != causation. Many factors could contribute. Personally I suspect it's oil related in more ways than just U-238.
And despite all those birth defects, the country is middle of the pack in terms of life expectancy. It is over 70 years (more than India), up from less than 58 in 1969.

 

[J842P]

Over the long run, the lack of national character already wrought by trump will cost more lives than anything Bush did.

This is simply your unevidenced assertion.
Also, you overestimate the character of the United States prior to Trump. Trump is nothing really new, and if anything, the veneer of respectability that existed before (mostly in the minds of Americans, not the rest of the world) is perhaps even more dangerous.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

J842P, one of the cruelest things you can do to a person is strip them of their self-illusions and force them to race reality. Trump has done a LOT to the US by stripping the US of the veneer.

 

[Elixir]

Over the long run, the lack of national character already wrought by trump will cost more lives than anything Bush did.

This is simply your unevidenced assertion.
Also, you overestimate the character of the United States prior to Trump.

Well J8, I have about 70 years of observation informing my opinion of the vector of the "character" of the USA. If you have some objective metric you can apply to the changing character of the nation that contradicts my opinion, please present it. Otherwise it's your unevidenced assertion against mine. I don't dismiss your opinion because I've had that same thought during the Reagan, Nixon, Bush, Clinton and Bush II administrations. This is (in my opnion of course) much different.

Trump is nothing really new, and if anything, the veneer of respectability that existed before (mostly in the minds of Americans, not the rest of the world) is perhaps even more dangerous.

I agree that the veneer you refer to exists (still), and that it is not shared by the rest of the world to any great extent. I also agree that it is and always has been a danger, and that Trump is its bastard child and proof positive of its evil nature. That doesn't alter my point.

 

[HaRaAYaH]

The case for Biden is simple and direct:

He is the most likely candidate to defeat Trump:

I hold this opinion for a number of reasons. This is not a change election. 2000 was a change election, 2008 was a change election and 2016 was a change election. This is referendum on Trump. Who can take back the most swing voters in PA and Michigan to defeat the orange sphincter. I saw some polling information ( I don't have source) that took 8000 people who told the pollster they were in favor of the democratic candidate VS Trump. Broke them into 2 groups. One group was read the positions of Warren and Sanders without attribution. There was an 8 point swing to Trump. You can't get enough new voters to come out to overcome this. To get those people back you need to be a centrist. If the democrats nominate a liberal, Trump will paint them as a socialist and he will cruise to victory. People want a return to normalcy​

Second he is a mensch.

This is how a real man, a real President handles political opposition.:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyOPIr4smys[/YOUTUBE]

This is the kind of man I want to be President.​

As for the gaffes. It is not a sign of age. It's the way be has been forever. it's just the way he speaks. The Obama team was always worried about Biden Gaffes.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

J842P, one of the cruelest things you can do to a person is strip them of their self-illusions and force them to race reality. Trump has done a LOT to the US by stripping the US of the veneer.

He really has. And I think its the silver lining in his presidency. He's laid bare a lot of what other presidents before him would hide. He's also shown that the presidency isn't the end all be all that people imagined it to be. He's been in power for 3 years and the country is still there, the economy is doing ok and the end of the world doesn't appear to be nigh. All that despite him having absolutely no idea what he's doing and having no interest in learning how to be a competent president.

 

[PyramidHead]

Loving the Freudian slip in this comment, can you spot it?

J842P, one of the cruelest things you can do to a person is strip them of their self-illusions and force them to race reality.

Totally off-topic I know, but I couldn't resist

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Loving the Freudian slip in this comment, can you spot it?

That my sentence also describes an-coms doesn't make it a Freudian slip.

 

[PyramidHead]

Loving the Freudian slip in this comment, can you spot it?

That my sentence also describes an-coms doesn't make it a Freudian slip.

I guess you didn't see it either. I'll give you a hint: "race reality" has more than one meaning.

But I thought we already covered the fact that you and I are on the same page as Lenin regarding ancoms:

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Oh, you're making a big deal about a typo. I see it now.

Good for you, you found a typo. That prove everything you ever wrote and disproves everything I ever wrote.