The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus vs. ?

[Learner]

Living for eternity in a glorious worry free ecstatic reality with nothing to do but worship a god, boring and a fate worse than death.

As you illustrate what some may be thinking - going back to those words again.You're either going to be satisfied or disatisfied living under God.
We are free to choose.

Does anyone choose to be satisfied or unsatisfied, sad or happy, sick or well, turning these mental states on or off at will like a tap?

Assuming you mean heaven in the same context (if you can entertain the idea) - let's see.

Considering heaven would be free from all the evils of the world.

Would you or anyone here think ideally, they could be quite satisfied and happy living in a Kingdom under God/Jesus?

The question is, what would be the reason for the presence of dissatisfaction, dissent or rebellion in Heaven, which is taken to be a perfect place?

The perfect place (minus the disatisfied) as you mention, has not arrived yet. As it the same for humans who rebel, the rebellious in heaven will not be in the perfect heaven (unified) of the future.

(Gods realm and the lower 'heavenly states' where the angels (watchers) reside in, and do battle, aren't on the same level/plane)

 

[bilby]

Living for eternity in a glorious worry free ecstatic reality with nothing to do but worship a god, boring and a fate worse than death.

As you illustrate what some may be thinking - going back to those words again.You're either going to be satisfied or disatisfied living under God.
We are free to choose.

Does anyone choose to be satisfied or unsatisfied, sad or happy, sick or well, turning these mental states on or off at will like a tap?

Assuming you mean heaven in the same context (if you can entertain the idea) - let's see.

Considering heaven would be free from all the evils of the world.

Would you or anyone here think ideally, they could be quite satisfied and happy living in a Kingdom under God/Jesus?

The question is, what would be the reason for the presence of dissatisfaction, dissent or rebellion in Heaven, which is taken to be a perfect place?

The perfect place you mention has not arrived yet. As it the same for humans who rebel, the rebellion in heaven will not be in the perfect heaven.

(Gods realm and the 'heavenly states' where the angels (watchers) resided in, aren't on the same level/plane)

You know it sounds just like you are making this up as you go along, right?

I mean, these excuses are just less and less credible.

Like the dragon in Sagan's garage.

Can I see it? Oh, you could, but it's invisible.

But we could sprinkle flour on the floor... Oh, no, it doesn't leave footprints.

Well, we could spray it with paint... No, spray paint doesn't stick to it.

Every time anyone raises a legitimate objection, you add more untestable and implausible claims. Why you think that makes you seem any more convincing is perhaps the biggest mystery of all.

 

[DBT]

Living for eternity in a glorious worry free ecstatic reality with nothing to do but worship a god, boring and a fate worse than death.

As you illustrate what some may be thinking - going back to those words again.You're either going to be satisfied or disatisfied living under God.
We are free to choose.

Does anyone choose to be satisfied or unsatisfied, sad or happy, sick or well, turning these mental states on or off at will like a tap?

Assuming you mean heaven in the same context (if you can entertain the idea) - let's see.

Considering heaven would be free from all the evils of the world.

Would you or anyone here think ideally, they could be quite satisfied and happy living in a Kingdom under God/Jesus?

The question is, what would be the reason for the presence of dissatisfaction, dissent or rebellion in Heaven, which is taken to be a perfect place?

The perfect place (minus the disatisfied) as you mention, has not arrived yet. As it the same for humans who rebel, the rebellious in heaven will not be in the perfect heaven (unified) of the future.

(Gods realm and the lower 'heavenly states' where the angels (watchers) reside in, and do battle, aren't on the same level/plane)

Where is support for that explanation to be found in the bible?

 

[Learner]

Living for eternity in a glorious worry free ecstatic reality with nothing to do but worship a god, boring and a fate worse than death.

As you illustrate what some may be thinking - going back to those words again.You're either going to be satisfied or disatisfied living under God.
We are free to choose.

Does anyone choose to be satisfied or unsatisfied, sad or happy, sick or well, turning these mental states on or off at will like a tap?

Assuming you mean heaven in the same context (if you can entertain the idea) - let's see.

Considering heaven would be free from all the evils of the world.

Would you or anyone here think ideally, they could be quite satisfied and happy living in a Kingdom under God/Jesus?

The question is, what would be the reason for the presence of dissatisfaction, dissent or rebellion in Heaven, which is taken to be a perfect place?

I've answered this question but you haven't answered mine yet in the bold text above. (I'll get to your latest question after so we don't get ahead of ourselves)

 

[DBT]

Living for eternity in a glorious worry free ecstatic reality with nothing to do but worship a god, boring and a fate worse than death.

As you illustrate what some may be thinking - going back to those words again.You're either going to be satisfied or disatisfied living under God.
We are free to choose.

Does anyone choose to be satisfied or unsatisfied, sad or happy, sick or well, turning these mental states on or off at will like a tap?

Assuming you mean heaven in the same context (if you can entertain the idea) - let's see.

Considering heaven would be free from all the evils of the world.

Would you or anyone here think ideally, they could be quite satisfied and happy living in a Kingdom under God/Jesus?

The question is, what would be the reason for the presence of dissatisfaction, dissent or rebellion in Heaven, which is taken to be a perfect place?

I've answered this question but you haven't answered mine yet in the bold text above. (I'll get to your latest question after so we don't get ahead of ourselves)

You have answered, but your answers have not addressed the question.

The question I asked is in relation to your point, that heaven would be a place free from all the evils of the world, that the inhabitants would presumably be satisfied with the rule of God.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The question I asked is in relation to your point, that heaven would be a place free from all the evils of the world, that the inhabitants would presumably be satisfied with the rule of God.

FWIW from a biblical perspective heaven is where evil originated. How can it be perfect?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Forget the faith perspective. Try the marketing perspective on dueling afterlives.
Jannah (the Muslim Heaven)
The saved will have 'whatever they want, forever.'
Features: gardens with fountains and two kinds of every fruit, all fruit within reach. All believers on green cushions and splendid carpets.
Meals: Inhabitants will eat and drink 100x more than earthly bodies can hold and enjoy it 100x more. Wine will be passed around, and it will not produce hangovers.
Perks: No ailments, none of the 'necessary' bodily functions (specifically, sleeping, spitting, and eliminating waste are unknown.)
As advertised: Maidens of modest gaze, untouched by human hands, in attendance.
Unconfirmed: 72 maidens per guy - possibly a legend. If your earthly wife is along, she may be a switch hitter, but that's to be worked out between the two of you. Male prerogative.
Christian Heaven
The saved will have some sort of new heavenly body.
Meals not included.
1500 miles by 1500 miles. Gold streets. No sun or moon, because the Lord is its light and the Lamb is its lamp.
Scheduled activities: worship, fellowship, rest, rule (see attendants for explanation)
Catholic exegesis: The blessed always see God present and by this greatest and most exalted of gifts, they enjoy true and solid happiness.
Unconfirmed: Daily concerts by George Beverly Shea, with harp and trombone accompaniment.
Atheist Afterlife
As...if!!! Sorry, as you can find out in any standard medical text, when you're brain dead, that's it. The dead have exactly the same cognition they had before they were conceived. The consumer plans above can be explained in any Psych 101 class as pure wish fulfillment. Sorry, Grandma is stone cold dead, and her memory will probably fade out with you, as yours will in maybe two generations.
Meals: Get 'em now. Get a take-out pizza TONIGHT.
Perks: Tune into the consistent feature of freethought, which is, you guessed it, snarky humor, and laugh at what humans have cooked up as their life-after-death experience. And by all means, sleep in on Sundays or whatever Sabbath is observed where you live. Buy Patton Oswalt cd's. Do what our canine friends do so well: appreciate each moment, each morsel, each friendly gesture.

 

[DBT]

The question I asked is in relation to your point, that heaven would be a place free from all the evils of the world, that the inhabitants would presumably be satisfied with the rule of God.

FWIW from a biblical perspective heaven is where evil originated. How can it be perfect?

That's right, which is what I'd like Learner to explain.

 

[Elixir]

FWIW from a biblical perspective heaven is where evil originated. How can it be perfect?

Well b’cuz they god kicked it out.

 

[Learner]

Living for eternity in a glorious worry free ecstatic reality with nothing to do but worship a god, boring and a fate worse than death.

As you illustrate what some may be thinking - going back to those words again.You're either going to be satisfied or disatisfied living under God.
We are free to choose.

Does anyone choose to be satisfied or unsatisfied, sad or happy, sick or well, turning these mental states on or off at will like a tap?

Assuming you mean heaven in the same context (if you can entertain the idea) - let's see.

Considering heaven would be free from all the evils of the world.

Would you or anyone here think ideally, they could be quite satisfied and happy living in a Kingdom under God/Jesus?

The question is, what would be the reason for the presence of dissatisfaction, dissent or rebellion in Heaven, which is taken to be a perfect place?

The perfect place you mention has not arrived yet. As it the same for humans who rebel, the rebellion in heaven will not be in the perfect heaven.

(Gods realm and the 'heavenly states' where the angels (watchers) resided in, aren't on the same level/plane)

You know it sounds just like you are making this up as you go along, right?

I mean, these excuses are just less and less credible.

You've never heard this before? Are you claiming I am the originator of this idea quoted above?

Your post looks like the usual argument I often see...sort of just sumink to say as some "come back" be it though feather light as a come back in weight.

So, when you say: "you are making it up as you go along.". Are saying "you know this because the bible doesn't describe this, and because you read it? ".

Like the dragon in Sagan's garage.

Can I see it? Oh, you could, but it's invisible.

But we could sprinkle flour on the floor... Oh, no, it doesn't leave footprints.

Well, we could spray it with paint... No, spray paint doesn't stick to it.

That's not comparable to the 'multiple' biblical authors of the bible.. which must require at least two or more witnesses for any doctrinal claim. The bible has many authors!

Unfortunately, for your guru Sagan, with a claim like that. He would be the lone witness and lone author of his "dragon in the garage" book - just like some of the other known religions that originated from sole authors, even though these religions do have many followers and religious leaders.

Every time anyone raises a legitimate objection, you add more untestable and implausible claims. Why you think that makes you seem any more convincing is perhaps the biggest mystery of all.

Adding? As opposed to anyone distorting the theist concepts of the bible? Oh but of course, you've misread the scripture and "you know it quite well'.

 

[Learner]

The question I asked is in relation to your point, that heaven would be a place free from all the evils of the world, that the inhabitants would presumably be satisfied with the rule of God.

FWIW from a biblical perspective heaven is where evil originated. How can it be perfect?

That's right, which is what I'd like Learner to explain.

Hey chaps, evil first showed up in Eden. Even if it started in heaven, it isn't a problem at all to the conceptual biblical narrative. As Elixir sort of hints to "being kicked out" - they won't be there in heaven 2.0. Which was sort of my answer previously.

 

[pood]

The question I asked is in relation to your point, that heaven would be a place free from all the evils of the world, that the inhabitants would presumably be satisfied with the rule of God.

FWIW from a biblical perspective heaven is where evil originated. How can it be perfect?

That's right, which is what I'd like Learner to explain.

Hey chaps, evil first showed up in Eden. Even if it started in heaven, it isn't a problem at all to the conceptual biblical narrative. As Elixir sort of hints to "being kicked out" - they won't be there in heaven 2.0. Which was sort of my answer previously.

There was no Eden. There was no pristine natural state. It’s always been red in tooth and claw. There also was no first human man and woman, no Adam and Eve.

 

[bilby]

You've never heard this before? Are you claiming I am the originator of this idea quoted above?

Of course not. I would never be so foolish as to suggest that you had had an original idea.

Your post looks like the usual argument I often see...sort of just sumink to say as some "come back" be it though feather light as a come back in weight.

Yeah, I understand. If you don't think about what people say, it carries no weight at all.

So, when you say: "you are making it up as you go along.". Are saying "you know this because the bible doesn't describe this, and because you read it? ".

No. When I say something, I am saying the thing I said.

I am never saying the thing you would rather I had said.

And I don't share your faith in the Bible, or consider what it says (or doesn't say) to be of any particular value.

That's not comparable to the 'multiple' biblical authors of the bible..

I was not making any comparison to the bible. It doesn't matter how many authors the bible had; It matters whether they are right or wrong.

which must require at least two or more witnesses for any doctrinal claim.

The bible includes no witnesses at all; Its authors are all long dead. Anyone can write about a million witnesses; You still only have one claimant, plus 999,999 "witnesses" that they just fabricated from thin air.

The bible has many authors!

Unfortunately, for your guru Sagan, with a claim like that.

Sagan is not my "guru", he just happens to have come up with a good argument in this case, which I was honest enough to attribute to him. It matters not one whit to the argument who made it first. As with ALL atguments, it stands or falls on its merits, never on its source. Hence why I give zero shits whether the source of your nonsense is the Bible, or some long dead pope, or your favourite youth pastor, or your own imagination.

He would be the lone witness and lone author of his "dragon in the garage" book - just like some of the other known religions that originated from sole authors, even though these religions do have many followers and religious leaders.

You can't see the wood for the trees, can you?

Sagan's story isn't supposed to be the truth; It's an analogy, that is supposed to make you think about how your own story is just as difficult as his, for a sane person to give credence to.

Adding? As opposed to anyone distorting the theist concepts of the bible? Oh but of course, you've misread the scripture and "you know it quite well'.

I don't give crap the first about "the scripture". I am not having a discussion with "the scripture". I am addressing the things YOU say, IN THIS THREAD. Whether you got those things from scripture, or from the complete works of Shakespeare, or from the Bumper Book for Boys, is of zero import - an idea stands on its relationship with reality, not on the identity of its originator(s).