The dark side of #blacklivesmatter

[ksen]

I kick puppies for fun

See what I mean?

lol

exactly the same

 

[laughing dog]

Perhaps if you stopped assuming that observers are incapable of making accurate observations about their worlds, it is possible you might learn something.

Because again and again I see people assuming that a disparate result proves discrimination. Any such observer is not credible.

That comes across as written by someone who does wish to be confused by the facts.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job.

Are they doing their jobs NOW? Or do we just have a fundamental misunderstanding of what their jobs actually are/have become?

Should the officers get out and start filming themselves?

Hell yes. Body cams for police officers are good for both the police AND the public; they keep the cops honest, and they also protect cops from false allegations of abuse of power.

And the department that REQUIRES officers to wear body cams and cracks down on those who fail to do so are that much closer to restoring the trust of the community. It's the implicit statement that "We're going to make sure our officers are behaving properly, and we're going to have a record of how properly YOU behave when you deal with them."

If there's one thing I understand about human beings, it's that they never fail to live up to your expectations.

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter

It implies nothing of the sort except in the special pleading butthurt language of white privilege.

That's like saying "save the rainforests" implicitly says "fuck every other kind of forest in the world"

The fact is that while I live in a state that is widely regarded as 'progressive,' there is significant racism and a very, very significant difference in achievement/outcomes to use the new parlance, in K-12 education where my state is one has one of the worst achievement gaps in the nation. And I understand it. I've watched it in my own tiny little corner of the state where it's about 98% white. There is a general assumption that anyone with dark skin has a lot of ground to make up, is behind academically, and that we really cannot expect too much out of 'them.' Except that they will probably just end up being criminals. Honestly, these are things I have heard. From teachers. And a lot worse from parents. There is just a general expectation of bad behavior/low achievement/lack of preparedness. And it is assumed of any child who moves into the school district, no matter their color. Although it is easier to get around if they moved from another part of the state.

And we are a progressive state.

I suggest rechecking your assumptions.

You ass u me that the cause of any discrepancy is racism and don't even consider that there might be other factors going on--thus causing the real causes to be ignored.

So you are perfectly comfortable implying that school teachers and white parents are CORRECT in expecting black students to fail and/or become criminals?


Or no. Just this once -- this one LAST time -- I will be charitable:
What do you think is the REAL reason why white teachers and white parents think black students are unteachable and destined to fail?

 

[Toni]

The fact is that while I live in a state that is widely regarded as 'progressive,' there is significant racism and a very, very significant difference in achievement/outcomes to use the new parlance, in K-12 education where my state is one has one of the worst achievement gaps in the nation. And I understand it. I've watched it in my own tiny little corner of the state where it's about 98% white. There is a general assumption that anyone with dark skin has a lot of ground to make up, is behind academically, and that we really cannot expect too much out of 'them.' Except that they will probably just end up being criminals. Honestly, these are things I have heard. From teachers. And a lot worse from parents. There is just a general expectation of bad behavior/low achievement/lack of preparedness. And it is assumed of any child who moves into the school district, no matter their color. Although it is easier to get around if they moved from another part of the state.

And we are a progressive state.

I suggest rechecking your assumptions.

You ass u me that the cause of any discrepancy is racism and don't even consider that there might be other factors going on--thus causing the real causes to be ignored.

I would never call you an ass. For one thing, I believe that it is against the board guidelines/rules.

You ASSUME that I ASSUME something I do not ASSUME.

Maybe you should re-check your reading.

I reported that my state has enormous differences in achievement scores between white children (predominate by a huge margin) and any child of color, particularly black children. This is widely reported in various media in the state and probably on any media that reports national educational trends.

I then recounted instances of racism that I witnessed. In my children's schools. In the oh so progressive state where I live.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I am assuming nothing. And deep down you know it. Tell me. What scares you more? That racism is alive and well in America or what might be alive and well in you?

Or is it that you're scared that racism might not be what's behind black people on average being behind whites.

What are you talking about? Who said anything about black people being behind white people?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

oooohh, what might it be Loren?

Almost all studies that find rampant racism fail to even consider the possibility that race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status.

Studies that do consider this possibility almost always find no racism.

- - - Updated - - -

Because again and again I see people assuming that a disparate result proves discrimination. Any such observer is not credible.

That comes across as written by someone who does wish to be confused by the facts.

That sounds like someone who thinks disparate impact is discrimination.

 

[Toni]

Almost all studies that find rampant racism fail to even consider the possibility that race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status.

Studies that do consider this possibility almost always find no racism.

- - - Updated - - -

Because again and again I see people assuming that a disparate result proves discrimination. Any such observer is not credible.

That comes across as written by someone who does wish to be confused by the facts.

That sounds like someone who thinks disparate impact is discrimination.

Ok. I'm willing to disregard what I have witnessed in favor of your studies if they are reputable.

How about links?

 

[laughing dog]

That sounds like someone who thinks disparate impact is discrimination.

Get your hearing checked. Disparate impact may or may not be an indication of discrimination.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Almost all studies that find rampant racism fail to even consider the possibility that race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status.

Studies that do consider this possibility almost always find no racism.

- - - Updated - - -

Because again and again I see people assuming that a disparate result proves discrimination. Any such observer is not credible.

That comes across as written by someone who does wish to be confused by the facts.

That sounds like someone who thinks disparate impact is discrimination.

Ok. I'm willing to disregard what I have witnessed in favor of your studies if they are reputable.

How about links?

You didn't pay attention before.

Anyway, look at the problems I pointed out with that report.

 

[fromderinside]

Or is it that you're scared that racism might not be what's behind black people on average being behind whites.

What are you talking about? Who said anything about black people being behind white people?

Loren Pechtel is definitely not racist when he adds an extra behind.

 

[laughing dog]

You didn't pay attention before.

Your dismissive evasion indicates that, as usual, you have no links.

Anyway, look at the problems I pointed out with that report.

What report are you referring to? This no data driven report in this thread.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your dismissive evasion indicates that, as usual, you have no links.

Anyway, look at the problems I pointed out with that report.

What report are you referring to? This no data driven report in this thread.

Sorry, I got the threads crossed. I was thinking of the report that showed up about the Australian data that shows the "discrimination" is nothing but mommy-track at work.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Almost all studies that find rampant racism fail to even consider the possibility that race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status.

Studies that do consider this possibility almost always find no racism.

- - - Updated - - -

Because again and again I see people assuming that a disparate result proves discrimination. Any such observer is not credible.

That comes across as written by someone who does wish to be confused by the facts.

That sounds like someone who thinks disparate impact is discrimination.

Ok. I'm willing to disregard what I have witnessed in favor of your studies if they are reputable.

How about links?

You didn't pay attention before.

You didn't PROVIDE them before. You just pretended like they existed and posted a bunch of unrelated hearsay from right-leaning blogs.

 

[Derec]

Apparently #blacklivesmatter even when they are murderers.
Memphis Police Shooting: Sister Says Suspect Tremaine Wilbourn Acted in Self-Defense

Wilbourn's sister, Callie Watkins, said her brother was acting in self-defense when he shot Bolton multiple times on Saturday night. "Tremaine ain't no bad person," Watkins said. "He was defending himself." "You know how they do, just trying to do you in," said Watkins, apparently referring to police.
[...]
Watkins told NBC affiliate WMC that the family "was just really worried about him" during the two days he was on the run. "We knew it weren't going to end pretty if he would have fought it out, so I'm just glad that he turned himself in," she said. "He ain't a coward," Watkins said.

Because what's important is to establish at this juncture is that "he ain't a coward". I wonder how brave he will be when he gets a date with the needle.

And some degenerate has set up an indiegogo campaign to raise money for the murderer.
Support Tremaine Wilbourn's Family
The text of the campaign is full of BLM themes

his year, police have killed 558 people. 31% of those people were black. Almost 70% of those people who were black were unarmed. Young black men are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed by police than young white men. Police brutality and terrorism on the black community remains largely unchecked and less than 1% of those police officers who murder black people are charged with murder or manslaughter.

Tremaine Wilbourn turned himself in to police on Monday, August 3rd for fatally shooting a police officer during a traffic stop and he wanted to make clear two things: one- he is not a cold-blooded killer, and two- he is not a coward. While the murderers of Freddie Gray, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, 12 year old Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland and countless others are free to enjoy their families and lives, these men are no longer among the living.

These barbaric, unjustified murders of black men, women, and children are supported under the rule of law. We have to step up and support our people like the murderers of these men, women, and children have been supported. Please donate anything you can to support Tremaine's children and his family during this difficult time for them.

Sickening. Obviously to some #onlyblacklivesmatter and especially #bluelivesdonotmatter

Hopefully the family of Sean Bolton sues Wilbourn and gets every last cent donated to this campaign by BLM types.

 

[Arctish]

Apparently #blacklivesmatter even when they are murderers.

Yes. Black lives, white lives, all human lives matter even when some of them are murderers. BTW, whatever happened to your advocacy for the presumption of innocence? It's very inconsistently applied.

Memphis Police Shooting: Sister Says Suspect Tremaine Wilbourn Acted in Self-Defense

Because what's important is to establish at this juncture is that "he ain't a coward". I wonder how brave he will be when he gets a date with the needle.

And some degenerate has set up an indiegogo campaign to raise money for the murderer.
Support Tremaine Wilbourn's Family
The text of the campaign is full of BLM themes

his year, police have killed 558 people. 31% of those people were black. Almost 70% of those people who were black were unarmed. Young black men are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed by police than young white men. Police brutality and terrorism on the black community remains largely unchecked and less than 1% of those police officers who murder black people are charged with murder or manslaughter.

Tremaine Wilbourn turned himself in to police on Monday, August 3rd for fatally shooting a police officer during a traffic stop and he wanted to make clear two things: one- he is not a cold-blooded killer, and two- he is not a coward. While the murderers of Freddie Gray, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, 12 year old Tamir Rice, Sandra Bland and countless others are free to enjoy their families and lives, these men are no longer among the living.

These barbaric, unjustified murders of black men, women, and children are supported under the rule of law. We have to step up and support our people like the murderers of these men, women, and children have been supported. Please donate anything you can to support Tremaine's children and his family during this difficult time for them.

Sickening. Obviously to some #onlyblacklivesmatter and especially #bluelivesdonotmatter

Hopefully the family of Sean Bolton sues Wilbourn and gets every last cent donated to this campaign by BLM types.

It's sickening when the family of a man suspected of murder calls for community support that equals the support given to other men who were suspected of murder? That's strange. As I recall, you were solidly in favor of the fundraising done on behalf of Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman. Now all of a sudden it's a problem?

 

[Derec]

Yes. Black lives, white lives, all human lives matter

Tell that to BLM types who booed O'Malley when he said that all lives matter.

even when some of them are murderers.

They forfeit their rights such as right to freedom and in cases of death penalty, right to life.

BTW, whatever happened to your advocacy for the presumption of innocence? It's very inconsistently applied.

Is there any doubt, much less reasonable doubt, that he is the guy?

It's sickening when the family of a man suspected of murder calls for community support that equals the support given to other men who were suspected of murder? That's strange. As I recall, you were solidly in favor of the fundraising done on behalf of Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman. Now all of a sudden it's a problem?

Darren Wilson is a police officer who shot a robber who attacked him. This is exactly the opposite from a convicted bank robber murdering a police officer who interrupted a drug deal.
And George Zimmermann shot Trayvon in self defense.
By the way, Indigogo deleted the campaign for Michael Slager. Are they going to be consistent and delete this one as well?

Also, the commenters at the campaign site said things like "We Should Always Support Our Own People" and "We have to support our people." (by the campaign founder). This is obviously racial for them - they support him because he is black.

 

[Arctish]

Tell that to BLM types who booed O'Malley when he said that all lives matter.

even when some of them are murderers.

They forfeit their rights such as right to freedom and in cases of death penalty, right to life.

BTW, whatever happened to your advocacy for the presumption of innocence? It's very inconsistently applied.

Is there any doubt, much less reasonable doubt, that he is the guy?

It's sickening when the family of a man suspected of murder calls for community support that equals the support given to other men who were suspected of murder? That's strange. As I recall, you were solidly in favor of the fundraising done on behalf of Darren Wilson and George Zimmerman. Now all of a sudden it's a problem?

Darren Wilson is a police officer who shot a robber who attacked him. This is exactly the opposite from a convicted bank robber murdering a police officer who interrupted a drug deal.
And George Zimmermann shot Trayvon in self defense.
By the way, Indigogo deleted the campaign for Michael Slager. Are they going to be consistent and delete this one as well?

You are evading the question.

There have been several high profile cases recently in which a person suspected of unlawfully killing another person was the beneficiary of fundraising efforts on their behalf. You didn't have a problem with it. In fact, you argued in favor of it. So what's the problem here? Are you suddenly against the idea of family and friends of a murder suspect raising funds to pay for their defense? Or are you picking and choosing which fundraising efforts are acceptable based on whether you like or dislike the suspect?

It seems to me, if you're going to insist we toe the "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" line, you don't get to pre-judge people and decide before the trial whether or not they deserve fundraising efforts to pay their legal costs.

Also, the commenters at the campaign site said things like "We Should Always Support Our Own People" and "We have to support our people." (by the campaign founder). This is obviously racial for them - they support him because he is black.

A lot of people supported Wilson because he's white. And you defended their right to support the guy based on whatever reasons they wanted to support him, even racist ones. Have you changed you mind about that?

ETA: I support the right of a defendant to mount an effective defense. I realize that means hiring a private lawyer, and not relying on a public defender. But I am very uneasy at the prospect of our justice system turning into a popularity contest, or having the results of the legal process determined by how much money the defendant was able to throw down (yes, yes, the rich have always had the edge, but it doesn't have to be that much of an edge, does it?).

I don't like the idea that GoFundMe is becoming more of a factor at trial than forensic evidence, but I don't yet have a clear idea what should be done about it.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Tell that to BLM types who booed O'Malley when he said that all lives matter.

Circa 1962, the man who stands up in front of a group of civil rights activists and tells them "You ought to be pushing for voting rights for ALL people, not just black people" is probably expecting to be booed.

The militarization of the police and the excessive use of force is an issue in is own right. But within that issue is an interesting question: why is so much of that excessive force directed against black people? And why do the police officers appear to behave as if the lives of black people simply do not matter to them?

"Black lives Matter" is a slogan directed at people who behave as if they do not.
It is directed at people like you, who go out of your way to demonize and disparage any woman or black person who has ever been the victim of excessive force.
It is directed at people like you, who has never seen a police-issue jackboot you won't lick.

Everyone already knows whiten (male) lives matter to you. The problem is they're the ONLY lives that matter to you. If you choose to reiterate that point in public, you should probably expect to be booed off the stage.

 

[arkirk]

According to Loren those black people caused tje police to have to get out their pepper spray and calm them down. What made it extra bad is that they actually yelled at the officer calling him a fucker. Hell he's lot worse than that. To the cop in the video, black people are a threat and a nuisance and he just sprays them like flies.
The man ought to be fired and not allowed to carry a gun.