The dark side of #blacklivesmatter

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...owd-at-black-lives-matter-summit-in-cleveland

Black people trying to stop the arrest of other black people. This is going to make matters worse, not help!

 

[laughing dog]

One could have also entitled the article - "Look what happens when the police justifiably lose the trust of the public".

 

[ksen]

"dark" side

 

[Arctish]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...owd-at-black-lives-matter-summit-in-cleveland

Black people trying to stop the arrest of other black people. This is going to make matters worse, not help!

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

 

[Trausti]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...owd-at-black-lives-matter-summit-in-cleveland

Black people trying to stop the arrest of other black people. This is going to make matters worse, not help!

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

 

[untermensche]

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

There have always been sycophants to unreasonable power.

And they always expect others to be as submissive as they are no matter what.

Police are dragging people away and they are ending up dead.

It is not unreasonable for the people the police are supposed to be serving to question them.

 

[Arctish]

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

Did you see anyone in that video interfering with the police doing their job? I didn't. All I saw were people expressing an opinion while standing about 10-12' from a cop. They weren't even agitated until he started spraying.

ETA: a different source says the crowd had locked arms to prevent the police from leaving with the 14 year old, who witnesses say was slammed to the ground by police before being placed in a police vehicle. Also, the claim the kid was intoxicated is being disputed. He was checked out by an ambulance crew and released into his mother's custody.

 

[Trausti]

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

Did you see anyone in that video interfering with the police doing their job? I didn't. All I saw were people expressing an opinion while standing about 10-12' from a cop. They weren't even agitated until he started spraying.

M'kay.

A crowd gathered near the scene within minutes, so officers put the boy in the back of a cruiser for his safety, the statement said.

"The crowd then surrounded the car, and attempted to remove the juvenile from the car," the statement said. "By this time, several other law enforcement agencies had also responded.

"The crowd kept the police car from leaving the area. A transit Police officer used a general burst of pepper spray in an attempt to push back the crowd, to no avail."

The boy was then taken to nearby paramedics and was eventually released to his mother about 5:45 p.m., according to the statement.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/07/cleveland_rta_releases_stateme.html#incart_m-rpt-1

- - - Updated - - -

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

There have always been sycophants to unreasonable power.

And they always expect others to be as submissive as they are no matter what.

Police are dragging people away and they are ending up dead.

It is not unreasonable for the people the police are supposed to be serving to question them.

So you would have handed the 14 year-old intoxicated boy over to a mob a strangers rather than take him to the police station so his mother could pick him up. U Kqazy.

 

[Arctish]

Did you see anyone in that video interfering with the police doing their job? I didn't. All I saw were people expressing an opinion while standing about 10-12' from a cop. They weren't even agitated until he started spraying.

M'kay.

A crowd gathered near the scene within minutes, so officers put the boy in the back of a cruiser for his safety, the statement said.

"The crowd then surrounded the car, and attempted to remove the juvenile from the car," the statement said. "By this time, several other law enforcement agencies had also responded.

"The crowd kept the police car from leaving the area. A transit Police officer used a general burst of pepper spray in an attempt to push back the crowd, to no avail."

The boy was then taken to nearby paramedics and was eventually released to his mother about 5:45 p.m., according to the statement.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/07/cleveland_rta_releases_stateme.html#incart_m-rpt-1

- - - Updated - - -

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

There have always been sycophants to unreasonable power.

And they always expect others to be as submissive as they are no matter what.

Police are dragging people away and they are ending up dead.

It is not unreasonable for the people the police are supposed to be serving to question them.

So you would have handed the 14 year-old intoxicated boy over to a mob a strangers rather than take him to the police station so his mother could pick him up. U Kqazy.

I'm getting different information about the chain of events from different sources, and I already edited my previous post to reflect that. But considering the reputation of the Cleveland police, I would not have been just fine seeing them drive off with a black teenager they had already slammed into the ground. I probably would have linked arms, too. I think having the kid checked for indications of intoxication by an ambulance crew and released into his mother's custody was better than most of the other probable outcomes.

This is the same police force that has yet to discipline and fire the cops who needlessly killed a 12 year old with a toy and has a well earned reputation for unreasonable and unnecessary use of force. I have no faith in their integrity and professionalism in handling an allegedly drunk teenager.

In December 2012, after a series of deadly force incidents, Cleveland mayor Frank G. Jackson, local U.S. Representative Marcia Fudge, and others asked the United States Department of Justice to investigate the division.[26] The Justice Department announced the beginning of its probe on March 14, 2013.[27] On December 4, 2014, United States Attorney General Eric Holder announced the completion of an investigation into a long-term pattern of excessive force by Cleveland Division of Police officers.[22][28]

The Justice Department report was released on December 4, 2014. [29] The report found that from 2010-2013, the Cleveland police had demonstrated a "pattern ... of unreasonable and unnecessary use of force" and used guns, Tasers, "impact weapons", pepper spray and fists in excess, unnecessarily or in retaliation. The report further found officers also use excessive force on those "who are mentally ill or in crisis."[30] The report also highlights that officers "carelessly fire their weapons, placing themselves, subjects, and bystanders at unwarranted risk of serious injury or death", and noted that "many African-Americans reported that they believe [Cleveland police] officers are verbally and physically aggressive toward them because of their race." [31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Division_of_Police#Controversy

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...owd-at-black-lives-matter-summit-in-cleveland

Black people trying to stop the arrest of other black people. This is going to make matters worse, not help!

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

The police were under attack. Pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable response.

 

[laughing dog]

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

The police were under attack. Pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable response.

There was no indication of any attack by the crowd in your link. And no arrests of anyone in the crowd was made. Finally, if that crowd had actually attacked the police, they would have been infured. All of which suggests the police did not think they were "attacked".

 

[Arctish]

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

The police were under attack.

That's not what multiple sources are saying. They are saying the Cleveland police - known for using unnecessary force - were treating a 14 year old roughly as they arrested him because, according to the police, he "appeared to be intoxicated". The witnesses, most of whom were attendees at a 3 day conference focusing on police abuse, prevented the cops from driving off with the kid. One of the cops used pepper spray in an attempt to disperse people who had linked arms in a classic demonstration of peaceful civil disobedience. It didn't work. The cops were still prevented from driving off with the teenager.

Eventually, the 14 year old was checked out by paramedics and released into his mother's custody. That doesn't mean the paramedics found absolutely no signs of intoxication, but it doesn't look like they found any obvious ones, and that in turn calls into question why the cops arrested the kid in the first place.

Pepper spray is a perfectly reasonable response.

Not really.

I suppose it's reasonable to someone who believes in authoritarian rule, but to someone who believes in civil liberties, the use of pepper spray is an assault and a needless escalation of conflict. As long as the protesters remain non-violent (and these folks were) then IMO the only appropriate response is likewise non-violent.

 

[fast]

One of the cops used pepper spray in an attempt to disperse people who had linked arms in a classic demonstration of peaceful civil disobedience. It didn't work. The cops were still prevented from driving off with the teenager.

Peaceful civil disobedience. What an interesting way of putting things. I hear that, and (to me at least), it becomes a topic-changer. All of a sudden, I have this internal need to do some quick compartmentalizing. On the one hand, there's this fading issue that is to do with what this thread is about, but on the other hand, there's this developing concern about how to (and in the most harsh way allowed by law) combat the unlawful disobedience--peacefully and civilly, of course.

Should the officers get out and start filming themselves? Filming as they identify those engaged in unlawful disobedience--for future follow up? With the crowd there, there are those doing nothing wrong, but also within the crowd, there are those that are (what, perhaps lawfully disobedient) ... I'm concerned about the unlawfully disobedient. This is where the mantra of serving and protecting to articulate ideologies can kiss my ass. You want something? I want something. If there is one iota of unlawfulness amongst the "peacful civil disobedience", then I want harsh consequences without any relief by those prepared to show lieniency.

Of course, if it doesn't happen in the moment to quell such future unlawfulness (regardless of why it came about--hence the need to compartmentalize), other sayings like "officers discretion" and "judges purvue" will soon creep in to disregard bringing hard-handed punishment to the lawbreakers amongst those engaged in peacful civil disobedience.

 

[Frikki]

Funny how self described libertarians always take the side of the State in these issues. It´s almost if the enjoy it when the state uses violence against people of color.

 

[Axulus]

Funny how self described libertarians always take the side of the State in these issues. It´s almost if the enjoy it when the state uses violence against people of color.

Which one of these took the side of the state?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonTV

I stopped counting after 20 in a row took the side against the state. How about you?

Liberals/leftists always take the side of the state when the motive appears to support their social justice cause.

 

[untermensche]

There have always been sycophants to unreasonable power.

And they always expect others to be as submissive as they are no matter what.

Police are dragging people away and they are ending up dead.

It is not unreasonable for the people the police are supposed to be serving to question them.

So you would have handed the 14 year-old intoxicated boy over to a mob a strangers rather than take him to the police station so his mother could pick him up. U Kqazy.

What these people are seeing everyday is a young black person being beaten or killed by the police.

The police in this country have lost the trust of many black people.

They will not gain that trust back with hair trigger violence.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Funny how self described libertarians always take the side of the State in these issues. It´s almost if the enjoy it when the state uses violence against people of color.

Yeah, funny that.

Although I would say "certain self described libertarians." Not everyone unquestioningly accepts the actions of the police.

 

[Will Wiley]

Wow.

It's getting to be that cops can't pepper spray a crowd of people without them getting upset and yelling "Fuck you!"

If this go on much longer, people with start thinking the police need a damn good reason for the use of force. Or at least the black ones will, and then where will we be? The 21st century???

If it becomes acceptable to interfere when the police do their job, then the police will no longer do their job. And you get Baltimore post-Freddie Gray.

Isn't the job of the Police to serve and protect?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter, and not all lives, widening instead of narrowing the race divide. They could at least have put it "black lives matter too".

 

[ksen]

I thought the problem with "black lives matter" was that it seems to imply black lives matter, and not all lives, widening instead of narrowing the race divide. They could at least have put it "black lives matter too".

Yeah, stupid negroes.