If they claimed that no children or other non-combatants had been killed by Israeli actions, would that be a lie?
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The dead "children" of Gaza
- Thread starter Loren Pechtel
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If they claimed that no children or other non-combatants had been killed by Israeli actions, would that be a lie?
Crazy Eddie
Veteran Member
And as most of us here realize, in your mind a pro-Israeli bias is not a reason to think a source may be lying.
And you think every pro-Israeli source is lying.
Look at what's going on in the thread--a question of whether the translation is right rather than accept that Hamas lies.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
The objection isn't over the translation. It's whether your source has correctly identified the person who was killed. If you don't know what steps your source took to confirm the identity of the victim, then how can you know the one who was killed wasn't a 13 year old boy?
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If Hamas lies, does this mean no children have been killed by Israeli action?
Derec
Contributor
Of course it doesn't. But children get killed in any war, so why is Israel being singled out?
Even according to official numbers, less than 1/4 of the dead have been minors. But 1/2 of Gazan population is under 18. Therefore, you would expect 1/2 of the dead to be minors if Israel was indiscriminately targeting Gazan population. If Israel (as some anti-Israel commentators outrageously claim) was specifically targeting children, you would expect >1/2 of the dead to be under 18. But neither is what you see. The fact is, a minor is half as likely to be killed in Israeli action than an average Gazan. Now since the stats include teenagers, many of whom are combatants, you can't even say that all the dead among minors have been civilians (but surely adult men are more likely to be combatants than minors and casualty figures reflect that).
The names match.
There's only one person by that name on the casualty list--the 13 year old. That leaves two scenarios:
1) Hamas is lying about his age.
2) Hamas hid the death of their member and there's a dead kid by the same name. But if Hamas hid the death why did they publish the shahid page for him?
Occam's razor clearly favors #1.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
FIFY
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Is this the best you have?
Every nation is singled out when civilians are killed. Israel doesn't get a pass because people happen to live in the places where they are fighting. I do like the thing about not calling all the dead children civilians. That makes the whole thing just a bit more civilized.
Jimmy Higgins
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Interesting that this is what you take from this thread. Typical LP.
Sabine Grant
Member
Essentially, your explanation here is that some "person" provided you with that poster. Either via Internet communications, or text exchanges or in person. Yet, you did NOT ask them to confirm their OWN source. Have you just blindly accepted an information given to you without asking the provider of that information for their own source? To then, build your entire conclusion from your Op and subsequent comments on that.
Toni
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I wonder how long it's been since those who question the age of the person to have been in a middle school. I've seen 13 year olds who could easily pass for 10 and 13 year olds with a pretty good 5 o'clock shadow and everything in between.
I also wondering if we cannot all agree that too many of all ages have died in Middle East conflicts and that not one more death or any number of deaths will bring justice or peace.
I also wondering if we cannot all agree that too many of all ages have died in Middle East conflicts and that not one more death or any number of deaths will bring justice or peace.
Sabine Grant
Member
What has been mainly happening in this thread is which rationale you rely on to parade a non sourced poster/picture provided to you by a person from whom you never inquired what their own source is for the poster/picture they provided to you. While you have been throwing around accusations of "blindly believing" to other posters. And while you have drawn your conclusions from a non verified source. I suspect several irony meters have exploded at this point.
And if your aunt had balls she would be your uncle.
You don't get to change the facts here.
laughing dog
Contributor
You are the only here changing any "facts".
He crossed out the problems with option #2.
RavenSky
The Doctor's Wife
Exactly. He crossed out the problems in your statement; he didn't change the facts of reality
laughing dog
Contributor
She did not change any facts. The facts still exist. On the other hand, you are admitted in your OP that your claim that Hamas is lying may not be true, yet you continue to act as if it is a fact.
arkirk
Veteran Member
Ms. Pernilla Ironside the person in charge of the U.N. shelter operations in Gaza was on Democracy Now last night. Her remarks and a lot of accompanying footage of Palestinian children in various states of grave injury pretty much refutes Loren's constant justifications of Israeli operations in Gaza. This "war" is akin to shooting fish in a barrel and of course there will be small fry killed and gravely injured. I feel that Netanyahu and his thuggish attitude toward the people of Gaza should land him in the ICC charged with crimes against humanity.
Along with 2,000+ Arab deaths, there also are 11 deaths of U.N. personnel in U.N. shelter facilities in Gaza. Israel's actions in Gaza are just plain obscene. The murdered children are a fact. So are the thousands of people who are homeless, without safe drinking water, and lacking any place they may go to be safe from Israeli bombs. There was video from inside hospitals showing the broken bodies of small children shown on last night's Democracy Now...and dozens of shots of the huge pile of rubble Israel has created in Gaza.
Netanyahu's beef with Hamas is no excuse for what his thugs have done in Gaza. It is American made and supplied weapons that have been used for this ruthless and relentless slaughter. This entire operation is nothing short of collective punishment and an attack on a civilian population (many small children included). Ironside pointed out that those children who remain physically uninjured are psychologically damaged by being surrounded with the horror of all this killing. They have no hope for anything and can't even find a place that is safe from the bombs...even U.N. shelters.
Nobody should be green-lighting any more of this carnage.
Along with 2,000+ Arab deaths, there also are 11 deaths of U.N. personnel in U.N. shelter facilities in Gaza. Israel's actions in Gaza are just plain obscene. The murdered children are a fact. So are the thousands of people who are homeless, without safe drinking water, and lacking any place they may go to be safe from Israeli bombs. There was video from inside hospitals showing the broken bodies of small children shown on last night's Democracy Now...and dozens of shots of the huge pile of rubble Israel has created in Gaza.
Netanyahu's beef with Hamas is no excuse for what his thugs have done in Gaza. It is American made and supplied weapons that have been used for this ruthless and relentless slaughter. This entire operation is nothing short of collective punishment and an attack on a civilian population (many small children included). Ironside pointed out that those children who remain physically uninjured are psychologically damaged by being surrounded with the horror of all this killing. They have no hope for anything and can't even find a place that is safe from the bombs...even U.N. shelters.
Nobody should be green-lighting any more of this carnage.