The death of Tyre Nichols

[Loren Pechtel]

You have it backwards--where's the evidence that they deserved firing? There hasn't been time for an adequate investigation. Investigate, then fire. When you fire to appease the public you demoralize the police and make the problem worse.

Where is the evidence they were fired to appease the public?

It was too fast.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Yet, we still see a seasonal peak in July numbers and a drop-off after July

Dude, that spike did not occur in previous years. Did you look at the graph you posted (first posted Oleg the Terrible)?

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

In any case, clearly, BLM did not go out and murder all the Black homicide victims throughout the country.

Of course, not. BLM and the political and media establishment just demonized police. That the police pulled back is a fact, already posted in this thread.

The police were stretched thin, not crybabies.

It isn't clear how little this could impact statistics of homicides, but we already know from the graphs that homicides were increasing prior to the protests.

No. That is not true. While there is a seasonal pattern to homicide, that does not explain the excess black homicide deaths post-Floyd. It also doesn’t explain the similar massive jump in black vehicular fatalities starting June 2020. But cops reluctant to pull over black drivers, does.

You can see once again Feb 2020 is highest of Feb's. Mar is higher, too. Clearly, something started months before George Floyd was murdered.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Officials: Deputies suspended in Tyre Nichols case didn't keep bodycams on

The deputies were suspended for five days without pay for failing to keep their bodycams and in-car video turned on while at the arrest location

www.police1.com

There are legitimate reasons for body cameras to have off switches. I can see very little reason for car cameras to even have off switches.

So they came to a scene with a man severely beaten up by cops. The next thing to do is ask what happened and how they can help.

Instead, they turned off their body cams as the first thing. Presumably, they then asked what happened off-camera.

Then, one or more didn't report their presence at the scene of what became known crime to them.

What are the legitimate reasons for doing that?

Saying the should have off switches is not saying they should have used them in this case.

Based on information we have, the most reasonable conclusion is to be very suspicious and say they need to be investigated. I think it is correct to say there are legit reasons for them to be off, like if a battery dies or you are taking a piss. Those types of rare events wouldn't coincide across multiple officers and failure to report presence in a log.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To review--George Floyd was murdered May 25th. Any alleged effect from violent riots allegedly orchestrated by BLM we expect to observe in the consolidated May number and perhaps also June. Yet, we still see a seasonal peak in July numbers and a drop-off after July like we normally see for the seasonal cycle of murders. Moreover, if we look prior to May, we see April 2020 is higher than all the other Aprils in the graph. We observe March 2020 is higher than all the other March's. We see that Feb 2020 is higher than all the other Feb's.

BLM is more than Floyd's murder.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

To review--George Floyd was murdered May 25th. Any alleged effect from violent riots allegedly orchestrated by BLM we expect to observe in the consolidated May number and perhaps also June. Yet, we still see a seasonal peak in July numbers and a drop-off after July like we normally see for the seasonal cycle of murders. Moreover, if we look prior to May, we see April 2020 is higher than all the other Aprils in the graph. We observe March 2020 is higher than all the other March's. We see that Feb 2020 is higher than all the other Feb's.

BLM is more than Floyd's murder.

BLM didn't start Feb 2020. Screaming BLM isn't a testable hypothesis either. It's the ravings of a lunatic. So, if you have a testable hypothesis regarding BLM, state it.

 

[laughing dog]

It was too fast.

Pretty thin evidence that they were fired to appease the public.

 

[Oleg]

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

The chart originally comes from here: https://build.neoninspire.com/counc...96/2021/07/Year-End-Crime-Update_Designed.pdf

Vox left out that the red line on the graph (page 6) represents a significant statistical break. This did not occur before May 2020.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

The chart originally comes from here: https://build.neoninspire.com/counc...96/2021/07/Year-End-Crime-Update_Designed.pdf

Vox left out that the red line on the graph (page 6) represents a significant statistical break. This did not occur before May 2020.

It is observably different from past years BEFORE May.

 

[Oleg]

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

The chart originally comes from here: https://build.neoninspire.com/counc...96/2021/07/Year-End-Crime-Update_Designed.pdf

Vox left out that the red line on the graph (page 6) represents a significant statistical break. This did not occur before May 2020.

It is observably different from past years BEFORE May.

What?

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

 

[Oleg]

The months post-Floyd were pretty rough on black deaths. Spike in homicide and vehicular deaths. It's a mystery.

Black [traffic] fatalities, as a proportion of all fatalities, increased in most months from March to December. The greatest increase occurred in June (20% [20] versus 15% [19]). Total estimated Black fatalities increased by 23 percent from 2019 to 2020.

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813118

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

The chart originally comes from here: https://build.neoninspire.com/counc...96/2021/07/Year-End-Crime-Update_Designed.pdf

Vox left out that the red line on the graph (page 6) represents a significant statistical break. This did not occur before May 2020.

It is observably different from past years BEFORE May.

What?

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

Wow, you can't possibly be capable of misunderstanding every graph you present. Yet there it is.

The graph you now present is very misleading. The data points are by year totals ONLY. All points in between are presented as curves for show. They do not represent monthly totals at all. So you cannot observe how Feb 2020 is greater than all previous Febs, Mar 2020 greater than all previous Mars, Apr 2020 > all previous Aprils. Why would you submit one graph that shows the trend and then replace it with a misleading annual graph?

 

[Oleg]

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

The chart originally comes from here: https://build.neoninspire.com/counc...96/2021/07/Year-End-Crime-Update_Designed.pdf

Vox left out that the red line on the graph (page 6) represents a significant statistical break. This did not occur before May 2020.

It is observably different from past years BEFORE May.

What?

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

Wow, you can't possibly be capable of misunderstanding every graph you present. Yet there it is.

The graph you now present is very misleading. The data points are by year totals ONLY. All points in between are presented as curves for show. They do not represent monthly totals at all. So you cannot observe how Feb 2020 is greater than all previous Febs, Mar 2020 greater than all previous Mars, Apr 2020 > all previous Aprils. Why would you submit one graph that shows the trend and then replace it with a misleading annual graph?

If that's the point you're trying to make, you're free to show us that graph. Though this graph (above) - from the FBI - cleary shows variation within each year. So, don't quite know what you're stabbing at. But are you're saying there wasn't a significant spike in black homicide victims starting end of May / June 2020, and that there weren't thousands of excess black deaths in 2020? 'Cause that's just not correct.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You seem to have completely missed the point. There is always a July spike, but for 2020, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun were all higher than previous years. Do you not understand that there was already something going on before May 25th?

The chart originally comes from here: https://build.neoninspire.com/counc...96/2021/07/Year-End-Crime-Update_Designed.pdf

Vox left out that the red line on the graph (page 6) represents a significant statistical break. This did not occur before May 2020.

It is observably different from past years BEFORE May.

What?

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

Wow, you can't possibly be capable of misunderstanding every graph you present. Yet there it is.

The graph you now present is very misleading. The data points are by year totals ONLY. All points in between are presented as curves for show. They do not represent monthly totals at all. So you cannot observe how Feb 2020 is greater than all previous Febs, Mar 2020 greater than all previous Mars, Apr 2020 > all previous Aprils. Why would you submit one graph that shows the trend and then replace it with a misleading annual graph?

If that's the point you're trying to make, you're free to show us that graph.

It's already been shown with the graphs you presented already.

 

[Oleg]

It's already been shown with the graphs you presented already.

I'm aware of no graph or stat that the post-memorial day black homicide spike of 2020 was anything other than atypical. Ditto the traffic fatalities.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It's already been shown with the graphs you presented already.

I'm aware of no graph or stat that the post-memorial day black homicide spike of 2020 was anything other than atypical. Ditto the traffic fatalities.

February 2020, March 2020, and April 2020 were also atypical.

 

[Gospel]

The 60s? We (America) took the wrong turn in race relations when they allowed those who fought against the Union to stay in power.

There have been several wrong turns - the first one in North America being to introduce slavery in the first place.
However, I was talking about the wrong turn our country is still on. By subscribing to identity politics and demanding special treatment of people by race and ethnicity, the Left has made it impossible to heal from racial divides.
We need to stop going this wrong way. Ending so-called "affirmative action" will be a first step. But there will be a backlash. Colleges getting rid of SATs is a way to have fewer objective measures so they can practice racial preferences on the down low (like Harvard is doing with their bogus personality scores). I fear the same for medical schools - will MCAT soon become optional? Or will AAMC destroy it by making it about parroting the orthodox racial doctrine rather than about scientific underpinnings of medicine?

We took the wrong turn when even after the civil rights movement black people who were trying to build something for themselves were prevented from doing so. We took the wrong turn when black people finally built something, weather it was schools, businesses, their own community, white racist fucks were allowed to destroy it all.

Racist fucks destroying things is obviously wrong, but that has been happening in, what, 1920s?
More recently it was race riots like in Bronx in 1960s and
Also, while it is laudable to build things, I do not think separatism is good. For example, black colleges were a necessary evil back when blacks were prevented to go to established centers of higher learning. But now? What is the utility of separating yourself in colleges that define themselves by race?
Same thing goes for companies, neighborhoods etc. There is no reason they should be defined by race.
That too is part of the wrong turn.

So now that the black community who have for centuries been told we aint shit, now that some of us start to believe it; it's our fault.

First of all, you need to stop thinking in terms of "black community" but rather in terms of individuals. Fault is with the individuals. As is being "shit" or "ain't shit". Communities, black, white, purple, are made up of individuals - some good, others bad.
Thinking "[you] ain't shit" because you are black is wrong, but so is thinking you are all kings and queens just because of the melanin (which also supposedly has magic powers)

The wrong turns just keep on coming.

Indeed.

I agree with most of what you've said here, regrettably you're looking at it all from an erroneous prospective. Black people didn't invent separatism whole cloth. Building our own schools & communities was because white people didn't want us in their schools and communities. You think segregation wouldn't have an effect on future generations? Of course it's going to rare it's ugly face for generations to come. Especially since many white American's still don't want anything to do with us.

The kings and queens magical thinking while I also consider it harmful, has been less harmful than a country that repeatedly shat on us as a people.

I'd love nothing more than to think in terms of individuals (already do), but unfortunately in America if you haven't noticed, when enough people that look like you do something, many white people believe you're doing it too. Ya know, like gunning down a black man in the street because statistics show a lot of people who look like him are criminals being considered an "honest mistake". My hand is forced to care and think in community terms rather than solely individual ones.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The months post-Floyd were pretty rough on black deaths. Spike in homicide and vehicular deaths. It's a mystery.

Actually, it is a hint as to the actual reason for the increases. But one would need to look at the data from a perspective that isn't drenched in racist bigotry.

 

[Toni]

You have it backwards--where's the evidence that they deserved firing? There hasn't been time for an adequate investigation. Investigate, then fire. When you fire to appease the public you demoralize the police and make the problem worse.

Where is the evidence they were fired to appease the public?

It was too fast.

You have ZERO idea what was known to supervisors about the officers who were fired. Your assumption is filled with excuses for what the officers who killed Nichols did and it expands to include everyone involved that night.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The months post-Floyd were pretty rough on black deaths. Spike in homicide and vehicular deaths. It's a mystery.

Actually, it is a hint as to the actual reason for the increases. But one would need to look at the data from a perspective that isn't drenched in racist bigotry.

This is another instance where we ought to look at prior months. I have taken Oleg's graph and highlighted April 2020 here:


We can observe a stark difference prior to George Floyd's death which was May 25th, 2020. It looks like the black line was slightly higher than the blue starting around 2017. Then, about Dec 2019, things diverged quite a bit more between the black line and blue line. By April 2020, there were even more differences.

So, this is yet another case of differences being present prior to protests.

There is some more interesting information about vehicle fatalities here:

Motor Vehicle - Crashes by Month - Injury Facts

Car crash deaths by month vary and are associated with the number of vehicle miles driven. Miles and deaths go down in the winter and rise in the summer.

injuryfacts.nsc.org

 

[Gospel]

This is a fair take. Only thing I'd like to slip in is the fact that BLM is not a hive mind regardless of the appearance of it being such.

Sure. At the same time, if you saw what happened in Ferguson and elsewhere in the name of #BLM, but you still march under that banner, you are either complicit or naïve.

I see you just don't care to not make the same mistake many American's do. Lump everyone into an easy to dehumanize group. It's the American way after all so I suppose you're being patriotic.