The death of Tyre Nichols

[Loren Pechtel]

... this is the bias thing again, where a victim of police (or police adjacent) violence is presumed to be guilty.

That seems pretty believable to me. Criminals often come up with excuses and are dishonest about health issues once arrested/in custody. So, when police are dealing with anyone and seem to project they dealt with such a person, people will tend to believe it on their authority. Race could also play a factor in multiple levels of trust/assumptions/factors contributing into inferences. I think EMTs ought to be more duty-driven and objective.

There's also the issue that one of the basic rules of helping is to not put yourself in a position to become a victim yourself. EMTs will not deal with a scene the police have said is unsafe.

 

[Gospel]

... this is the bias thing again, where a victim of police (or police adjacent) violence is presumed to be guilty.

That seems pretty believable to me. Criminals often come up with excuses and are dishonest about health issues once arrested/in custody. So, when police are dealing with anyone and seem to project they dealt with such a person, people will tend to believe it on their authority. Race could also play a factor in multiple levels of trust/assumptions/factors contributing into inferences. I think EMTs ought to be more duty-driven and objective.

There's also the issue that one of the basic rules of helping is to not put yourself in a position to become a victim yourself. EMTs will not deal with a scene the police have said is unsafe.

There's a difference between the police saying a scene is unsafe and the police themselves making the scene unsafe. As an EMT, failure to make the right call when it's the latter can cost your job and freedom.

Edit: Especially with the bodycam rolling.
Edit2: Sorry this was a derail but expect to start seeing EMS workers getting some spotlights in the news in the near future. Not all of them are angels either.

 

[ZiprHead]

All 5 officers charged in Tyre Nichols' death removed or failed to activate their body-worn cameras. They were caught by a 'sky cop' camera installed to monitor crime hotspots.

An overhead "sky cop" camera offered the most thorough visual accounting of Tyre Nichols' beating; this time the criminals they stopped were cops.

www.yahoo.com

All 5 officers charged in Tyre Nichols' death removed or failed to activate their body-worn cameras.​

 

[Harry Bosch]

... this is the bias thing again, where a victim of police (or police adjacent) violence is presumed to be guilty.

That seems pretty believable to me. Criminals often come up with excuses and are dishonest about health issues once arrested/in custody. So, when police are dealing with anyone and seem to project they dealt with such a person, people will tend to believe it on their authority. Race could also play a factor in multiple levels of trust/assumptions/factors contributing into inferences. I think EMTs ought to be more duty-driven and objective.

There's also the issue that one of the basic rules of helping is to not put yourself in a position to become a victim yourself. EMTs will not deal with a scene the police have said is unsafe.

There's a difference between the police saying a scene is unsafe and the police themselves making the scene unsafe. As an EMT, failure to make the right call when it's the latter can cost your job and freedom.

Edit: Especially with the bodycam rolling.
Edit2: Sorry this was a derail but expect to start seeing EMS workers getting some spotlights in the news in the near future. Not all of them are angels either.

Yep. There are bad apples who are EMTs. There are bad apples also who are nurses, doctors, bankers, insurance salesmen, truckers, teachers, and etc. But it's the bad apples who are police people that get our ire.

 

[laughing dog]

... this is the bias thing again, where a victim of police (or police adjacent) violence is presumed to be guilty.

That seems pretty believable to me. Criminals often come up with excuses and are dishonest about health issues once arrested/in custody. So, when police are dealing with anyone and seem to project they dealt with such a person, people will tend to believe it on their authority. Race could also play a factor in multiple levels of trust/assumptions/factors contributing into inferences. I think EMTs ought to be more duty-driven and objective.

There's also the issue that one of the basic rules of helping is to not put yourself in a position to become a victim yourself. EMTs will not deal with a scene the police have said is unsafe.

Do you have even a scintilla of evidence that suggests this was a factor in their seemingly lackadaisical response?

 

[Oleg]

Do you have even a scintilla of evidence that suggests this was a factor in their seemingly lackadaisical response?

They were called for a “pepper spray” injury. They saw a guy bloody and beaten to a pulp. “Pepper spray” injury resolved.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you have even a scintilla of evidence that suggests this was a factor in their seemingly lackadaisical response?

They were called for a “pepper spray” injury. They saw a guy bloody and beaten to a pulp. “Pepper spray” injury resolved.

1) I can't ever tell just how serious you are.

2) That didn't answer ld's question.

 

[Oleg]

Do you have even a scintilla of evidence that suggests this was a factor in their seemingly lackadaisical response?

They were called for a “pepper spray” injury. They saw a guy bloody and beaten to a pulp. “Pepper spray” injury resolved.

1) I can't ever tell just how serious you are.

2) That didn't answer ld's question.

When I read the account that they were called for a "pepper spray" injury, it seemed like a movie, a dark comedy. "Hey, he's all bloodied and unconscious, what happened to him?" "Um, pepper spray."

 

[AthenaAwakened]

... this is the bias thing again, where a victim of police (or police adjacent) violence is presumed to be guilty.

That seems pretty believable to me. Criminals often come up with excuses and are dishonest about health issues once arrested/in custody. So, when police are dealing with anyone and seem to project they dealt with such a person, people will tend to believe it on their authority. Race could also play a factor in multiple levels of trust/assumptions/factors contributing into inferences. I think EMTs ought to be more duty-driven and objective.

There's also the issue that one of the basic rules of helping is to not put yourself in a position to become a victim yourself. EMTs will not deal with a scene the police have said is unsafe.

There's a difference between the police saying a scene is unsafe and the police themselves making the scene unsafe. As an EMT, failure to make the right call when it's the latter can cost your job and freedom.

Edit: Especially with the bodycam rolling.
Edit2: Sorry this was a derail but expect to start seeing EMS workers getting some spotlights in the news in the near future. Not all of them are angels either.

Yep. There are bad apples who are EMTs. There are bad apples also who are nurses, doctors, bankers, insurance salesmen, truckers, teachers, and etc. But it's the bad apples who are police people that get our ire.

The problem with the bad apple in the barrel is the barrel.

 

[TomC]

The problem with the bad apple in the barrel is the barrel.

The barrel is US society, not just the cops.

Cops are expected to enforce basic ethical behavior. In a society that is increasingly gun ridden, drug addled, divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone.

Police are not the problem. It's the people they're expected to police.
Tom

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The problem with the bad apple in the barrel is the barrel.

The barrel is US society, not just the cops.

Cops are expected to enforce basic ethical behavior. In a society that is increasingly gun ridden, drug addled, divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone.

Police are not the problem. It's the people they're expected to police.
Tom

Begging your pardon, but the police do not and can not enforce ethical behavior. What the police do is mete out sanction for bad actions already taken.

Yes. There are bad people doing bad things and police are expected to deal with these bad people and the results of their bad actions.

But that's not what angers the public. It's when unarmed law abiding citizens, petty criminals who at the time of encounter were doing nothing illegal, and children doing children type things are brutalized and murdered that angers the citizens. No one is mad about public enemy number one John Dillinger getting shot outside the Biograph. It's Tyre Nichols within shouting distance of his mother's house and without a criminal record being beaten to death for the act of trying to save himself that is madness.

 

[TomC]

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

I think you should have asked what "the barrel" is as well.

 

[Toni]

The problem with the bad apple in the barrel is the barrel.

The barrel is US society, not just the cops.

Cops are expected to enforce basic ethical behavior. In a society that is increasingly gun ridden, drug addled, divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone.

Police are not the problem. It's the people they're expected to police.
Tom

I call bullshit. People are the problem. Not everyone but those who have anger management problems, inflated senses of importance and entitlement, racist and bigoted ideologies, who are on power trips, whose insecurities get the best of them, who are dishonest and act in unlawful ways, who have misplaced loyalties, who are violent,

People.

Police come from the same large group as the criminals and those who don’t obey all traffic laws: people.

Police though act as a brotherhood, have an increased sense of loyalty towards one another. It is easy to see why. Their lives may depend upon it. But it also means that they are not always as forthcoming when there are errors made or worse than errors. They are expected to be perfect. In the US, they have guns. But policing has problems all over the world, because police are human beings and flawed. We all are.

 

[TomC]

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

I think you should have asked what "the barrel" is as well.

Sorry I didn't put a question mark after

The barrel is US society, not just the cops.

Here, let me try again to soothe you Wokesters.
"Is the violence problem because police should change? Or is it because the rest of us are gun ridden, drug addled,
divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone?

Whatever. I don't expect an answer.

Tom

 

[laughing dog]

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

I think you should have asked what "the barrel" is as well.

Sorry I didn't put a question mark after

The barrel is US society, not just the cops.

Here, let me try again to soothe you Wokesters.
"Is the violence problem because police should change? Or is it because the rest of us are gun ridden, drug addled,
divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone?

Whatever. I don't expect an answer.

Tom

The issue of violence in America is a complex one that is not amenable to simple dichotomous thinking. Anyone who is serious in asking an either or question about the about violence in America is not interested in a discussion or not capable of one..

 

[TomC]

The issue of violence in America is a complex one that is not amenable to simple dichotomous thinking.

I totally agree.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

But that's not what angers the public.

Who is this "the public" you're referring to?

It sounds like you're referring to "the barrel". People who want the police to stop the crime messing up their lives.

As if we're the problem.
Tom

I think you should have asked what "the barrel" is as well.

Sorry I didn't put a question mark after

The barrel is US society, not just the cops.

Here, let me try again to soothe you Wokesters.
"Is the violence problem because police should change? Or is it because the rest of us are gun ridden, drug addled,
divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone?

Whatever. I don't expect an answer.

Tom

You define "the barrel" as Us society. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone else made that statement. Don't you think that's a little odd?

 

[Gospel]

"Is the violence problem because police should change? Or is it because the rest of us are gun ridden, drug addled,
divisive, litigious, dominated by "entitlement and victimhood" and violence prone?

The police should only be responsible for their own unlawful violence. Simple enough? I know that the police force is a necessity (as the current human condition dictates) you seem to think that US Society should look the other way when they make mistakes. And anyone who doesn't is a wokester who hates the police entirely. As a person with multiple family members and friends on the police force I beg to differ.

 

[TomC]

You define "the barrel" as Us society. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone else made that statement. Don't you think that's a little odd?

I am defining the barrel as U.S. society.

The odd part, to me, is the inability of people on this forum to recognize that simple truth. The "barrel" is not just cops, or wipepo, or billionaires, or males, or immigrants or Christians.

It's us.
We are the problem.
Tom